most rhythmically disorienting songs in 4/4

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

you know, something that just fucks with you a little and won't let you find the downbeat, or puts the snare hit in a weird place, like Devo's cover of "Satisfaction". i love songs that do that. please tell me more.

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 12 April 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i was gonna say that song.

― di smith (lucylurex), Saturday, 12 April 2003 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

RDJ to thredd

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 12 April 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Expecting to Fly, N Young/ J Nitzsche

― rumpelstiltskin, Saturday, 12 April 2003 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

"Acid Mug" by Gus Gus, at least the first couple of times you hear it.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 12 April 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick Drake - "Pink Moon"

― Evan (Evan), Saturday, 12 April 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

"Skin & Bones" by the Sundays. The drummer seems to be doing 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 4. Love it.

― Ernest P. (ernestp), Saturday, 12 April 2003 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

dem 2 - "directrix"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 12 April 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

"Pink Moon"??? You find that rhythmically disorienting?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 12 April 2003 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Radiohead - "Pyramid Song"

― Simon H., Saturday, 12 April 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

"Pyramid Song" is in 12/8; each beat is subdivided into triplets (as opposed to 4/4 where each beat is subdivided into duplets).

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 12 April 2003 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

"touch and go" from the cars' flirtation with darkness, "panorama." near-impossible to tap your foot to.

― notfazed (notfazed), Saturday, 12 April 2003 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Police, "Spirits in the Material World."

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Saturday, 12 April 2003 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

doesn't "Expecting To Fly" change time signatures? I think it's in 3/4 or 6/8 for part of it.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 12 April 2003 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I second "Spirits is the Material World". Also the end section on Peter Gabriel's "Secret World".

― JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Saturday, 12 April 2003 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

"Spirits In The Material World"?????

(I can sense already that this thread is going to turn into me staring incredulously and thinking, "B-b-but I can find that beat so CLEARLY!" and then posting Alex-In-NYC-style "HONOR THE SYNCOPATION!")

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 12 April 2003 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Everything on Half Japanese's Half Gentlemen/Not Beasts

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 12 April 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i want someone to explain to me the rhythm of the need's "dear diary"

― ron (ron), Saturday, 12 April 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think that that Devo song is too hard to follow rhythmically

Daft Punk - "Indo Silver Club"

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 12 April 2003 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

All of Jimmy Page's great riffs: "Custard Pie", "Dancing Days", "Out on the Tiles", "Misty Mountain Hop", "Houses of the Holy".

Then you've got something like the "The Ocean" where on the intro/chorus it's like 7.5/4. How is that notated anyway? when half of the last beat drops off?

What the hell time signature is "Four Sticks"? I'll give a cookie to anyone who can figure that one out. I just tried and my head hurts.

Anyway, more reasons why Zep were great.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 12 April 2003 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

You're kidding with "Misty Mountain Hop", right? I mean, that song is blatantly on the beat the whole time.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 12 April 2003 19:54 (twenty-two years ago)

XTC Omnibus

― tyler (tyler), Saturday, 12 April 2003 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan! You prog dude! Beat or not, "Misty Mountain Hop" can be disorienting for sure.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 12 April 2003 19:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, "Four Sticks": The predominant time signature is 5/8. Each verse is 8 bars of 5/8, followed by two bars of 6/8, two bars of 5/8, and two bars of 6/8. The verse is in 6/8. It has absolutely nothing to do with 4/4.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 12 April 2003 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe not "Misty Mountain Hop" as much as the others, but it totally after the first iteration of the riff, it jumps back into it just a bit ahead of the beat, then holds the first note enough to let the rhythm catch up. You can't hear that?

Plus, somebody answer me about "Four Sticks"!

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 12 April 2003 20:01 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, thanks, got it - cross-post.

It has absolutely nothing to do with 4/4.

That's why I was asking!

What is that little trick called on "The Ocean"?

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 12 April 2003 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

(I'd forgotten how much I LOOOOOOOOOVE "Four Sticks", BTW. THANK YOU I AM IN JAMMY HEAVEN.) (Not "jammy" as in "pajama", although that would be cool as long as I got to pick who was in the pajamas.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 12 April 2003 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Listen to the drums in "Misty Mountain Hop"; the beat is completely unambiguous. Yeah, the guitar, bass and organ come in half a beat before the first beat, but that's just your everyday garden-variety syncopated rhythm.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 12 April 2003 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and notating the beginning of "The Ocean": one bar of 4/4 + one bar of 2/4 + one bar of 3/8.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 12 April 2003 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha! Of course. Dan you're the man.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 12 April 2003 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I think of The Ocean as a bar of 4/4 and a bar of 7/8 (same thing as what Dan said obv.).

The original version of JB's 'Cold Sweat' owns this thread. Clyde couldn't played it that way again if you offered him writing credit on Funky Drummer.

(also Autechre's Blifil)

― Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 12 April 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I think of The Ocean as a bar of 240/128

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 12 April 2003 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

(I still think that 128th notes are grossly underused)

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 12 April 2003 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

"Pyramid" can be accurately described as
"4/4 with a triplet feel."

― Squirl Plise, Saturday, 12 April 2003 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I almost started a similar thread recently so I'm glad Al did now.

Here's a couple more:
XTC - "Wake Up" (opening, before drums join in)
Several tracks on 4Hero - Parallel Universe

In a very different category, Erasure's cover of "Solisbury Hill" (which is getting some radio play around here) is disorienting because it's in 4/4 unlike the original.

― Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Saturday, 12 April 2003 23:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan will you please come over to Scotland and teach me how to understand this stuff

will buy u all the deep fried mars bars u can eat

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Saturday, 12 April 2003 23:34 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm just glad you all jumped on it! thank you! i'm just mad that i encounter examples frequently but haven't been able to think of any others since i started the thread. dangit.

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 12 April 2003 23:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Snowy Mann is the new Mark S/Jess! :-)

Everything on Half Japanese's Half Gentlemen/Not Beasts

Don't mention them around Dan. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 April 2003 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

two similar songs
railroad jerk - bang the drum
dub narcotic sound system - bite

both employ very irregular snare drumage but end up funky as shit.

― ddd, Sunday, 13 April 2003 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Bob Marley - Is This Love, if only for the line 'I wanna love ya and treat you right'.

― Damian (Damian), Sunday, 13 April 2003 09:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Mystikal -- Family. Now I hear it fine, but for like a whole year I didn't.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 13 April 2003 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Raekwon, "Glaciers of Ice"

― dave q, Sunday, 13 April 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

"Colonial Arms", Polvo

"Spanish Joint", D'Angelo

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 13 April 2003 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

NED I AM REBORN

disclaimer - i may just be drunk

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Monday, 14 April 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

as exemplified by supa-hot asterisk cntrl

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Monday, 14 April 2003 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Wowzers!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 April 2003 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Most of the songs on Trout Mask Replica are predominately 4/4 with various parts in other meters to make you boogie more animalistically.

The electric version of "Man-Size" by PJ Harvey is in three, but the ride cymbal is in 4/4, which makes you lurch your head violently sideways.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 14 April 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

"Pyramid" can be accurately described as
"4/4 with a triplet feel."

Actually, it can't; the melodic rhythm goes against swing rhythm (which is what "4/4 with a triplet feel" implies) at times, most notably the "black-eyed angels" part.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 14 April 2003 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked "operation spirit" by Live when it came out because the drummer doesnt play the "4" with the snare but rather the "e" or, the second of four 16th notes (counted 1 e & a 2 e & a etc.)

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Monday, 14 April 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Erasure's cover of "Solisbury Hill" .. is ... in 4/4 unlike the original.

I don't actually have Gabriel's "Solisbury Hill" around to listen to, but in my head, it's going: "1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2." Is that not considered 4/4? Or is the version in my head wrong?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 14 April 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't remember which song it is, but on Del the Funky Homosapien's Both Sides of The Brain one of the first couple/few songs has this weird break where the snare drum hits before the upbeat and gives it a totally proggy-feel, but on further inspection, it most certainly IS is 4/4.

I love when people do reviews of my band's shows and talk about us "leaping time signatures", when EVERY part of EVERY ONE of our songs is in 4/4. We're apparently pretty good at disorienting 4/4 rhythms.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 14 April 2003 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Gabriel's "Solsbury Hill" is in 7/4 (i.e., 4/4 + 3/4; missing a beat)...

― Joe (Joe), Tuesday, 15 April 2003 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

the chorus for pink moon (haven't heard it in forever) is not in 4... i think it's 5.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 15 April 2003 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i think.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 15 April 2003 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

What, no talk of dub? Virtually every dub side ever released fits into this category.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 15 April 2003 23:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Heard The Cars' "Just What I Needed" on the radio today -- I'd forgotten how the snare-on-the-backbeat flips to 1 and 3 for a few lines. It's VERY disorienting because it's too simple to sound "suspicious."

(I'd also forgotten that I rather like this band...)

― Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Thursday, 24 April 2003 04:55 (twenty-two years ago)

The drum'n'bass genre owns this thread

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 24 April 2003 06:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Weak Become Heroes, obviously.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 24 April 2003 08:43 (twenty-two years ago)

"Weak Become Heroes" pretty much typifies the question (and is probably one of the reasons I like the song so much).

I need more Cars in my life.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 24 April 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Ner-ner-ner-ner *bam*

(The band's great too.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 April 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Mission of Burma, "Max Ernst"; Jimi Hendrix, "Fire" (not the main part of the song, but the intro, which used to always trick my ear into thinking it started on the downbeat) and "Power of Soul". Also "Wonda Wonda", a track by a Ugandan group called the Ndrere Troupe, which has some of the more mindbending polyrhythms I've ever heard on a harp.

The break on "Superfreak" tends to trip me up -- I always think the "h-h-h-h-hey!" ends a beat later than it actually does.

"Out on the Tiles" isn't in straight 4/4, by the way -- it has a bar of 7/8.

― Phil (phil), Thursday, 24 April 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, also "Eye of the Hurricane", by Herbie Hancock.

― Phil (phil), Thursday, 24 April 2003 18:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm pretty sure Eye of the Hurricane has a bar of 5/8 or 3 or something in there. It's been awhile since I played the chart in college big band though, and I wasn't exactly counting it either if you know what I mean.

I can never feel the intro to Led Zep's 'Rock & Roll' right because you think that drum fill starts on one but it's actually on the & of 3 or whatever.

Actually that's a whole class of songs, the 'deceptive start'. Like how Should I Stay or Should I Go starts on the & of 1, but I used to always here the first note of the guitar intro as 1.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 24 April 2003 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

here = hear, argh

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 24 April 2003 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

One of the greatest things about Big Star is how the
drummer never plays the standard FM rock beat -
bass on 1, snare on 2 and 4. He usually plays the
snare a bit early, and I wouldn't call it disorienting,
but it adds an urgency and uneasiness that wouldn't
be there otherwise.

Ben Folds Five's "Your Redneck Past" is 4/4, but
the measures are divided up 3+5, which can sound
quite odd if you're not expecting it.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Monday, 28 April 2003 04:14 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

the chorus for pink moon (haven't heard it in forever) is not in 4... i think it's 5.

It's 4/4. You might be thinking of "River Man"

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 6 July 2003 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

nine months pass...

Lifesavas w/ DJ Shadow, Lyrics Born, Lateef, Gift of Gab "Emerge". The MCs keep switching the emphasis of their verse's meters to the point where The One is never quite discernable throughout the whole thing. Effectually intentionally unsettling.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Saturday, 1 May 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Anything by Wolfgang Voigt's (Mike Ink) old project M:1:5, on Profan.

― philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Saturday, 1 May 2004 22:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Joyce, "Feminina."

― mike a, Sunday, 2 May 2004 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

every single time I hear Sleepy Brown's "I Can't Wait", it sounds like the snare is on the 4 instead of the 3, and I actually have to concentrate really hard to feel like it's on the 3 like normal.

― Al (sitcom), Monday, 3 May 2004 05:38 (twenty-one years ago)

For a long time, the opening of Kraftwerk's "Pocket Calculator" had me misjudging where the start of the bar was, if that counts...

― OleM (OleM), Monday, 3 May 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

HOVI BABY

― jake in portland (cerybut), Monday, 3 May 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

Trapped in the wake of a dream by mudvayne is in 17/8 for verses, 11/8 for chorus and then a mixture for the bridge. CRAZY

― Better than you, Saturday, 26 June 2004 08:12 (twenty years ago)

Where was Dan on the "schaffel's 4/4" / "no it's just really fast 3/4" / "oh wait that's called 6/8" thread?

― nabiscothingy, Saturday, 26 June 2004 18:05 (twenty years ago)

The pulse of the bass intro to the Chili Peppers cover of Higher Ground always fools me.

― mzui, Saturday, 26 June 2004 18:16 (twenty years ago)

"Pyramid Song" is 4/4 swing! Don't kid yourself, Dan!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 26 June 2004 19:48 (twenty years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.