this is the thread where you can ask for definitions of musical terms:

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inspired by "the hook" thread, there are a couple of things I have a round about idea of, but would appreciate a definitive meaning:

someone tell me what is "the bridge" and why is good to taken there?

also "the one"

how do know when garage beats are two-step. What other variations are there?

Nik (Nik), Sunday, 20 April 2003 00:05 (twenty-two years ago)

The bridge is the C in the A-B-C:
A(verse)
B(chorus)
A(verse)
B(chorus)
C(bridge)
--guitar solo here--
then back to A if there's another verse, more often one more B and out. Some people don't write bridges. Lucinda Williams prides herself on that.

The One is the galactic spiritual embodiment of the downbeat that kicks off the measure (whether it's 4/4, 3/4, 5/4, or some goddamn fancypants thing). a.k.a the downstroke for which you are supposed to get up.

Here's a question of my own: someone please define "modal" in a way that makes sense.

JesseFox (JesseFox), Sunday, 20 April 2003 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

re: modal, some pretty good attempts at definition on this thread.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Sunday, 20 April 2003 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

the galactic spiritual embodiment of the downbeat...for which you are supposed to get up.

JesseFox in George Clinton zen shockah!!

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 20 April 2003 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha ha I didn't know it was already covered in another thread, so I just hashed out an explanation of modes and now I'm gonna crost-post the fucker! If nothing else, there's a bit more historical/non-jazz perspective here (although grossly oversimplified).

Modal has different meanings in different contexts. In general, a mode is a structure like a scale: it's a collection of pitches for building melodies and/or harmonies, it can be arranged in stepwise form, and it has a tonic or center or most stable pitch, which is often the note on which melodies come to rest. The major scale is a mode (white notes of the keyboard, with C as tonic), the "natural minor" scale is another mode of comparable significance (white notes of the keyboard, with A as tonic), and these two are part of a system of seven modes (white notes of the keyboard, with each note taking the tonic role in a distinct mode) known as the "Dorian" system or the "Church modes" -- because the system is a modern re-construal of the structures used in the traditional liturgical music of the Catholic church -- early Medieval plainchant through Renaissance polyphony, roughly speaking. Another well known system of modes is the pentatonic system (the black keys with various tonics -- but there are other pentatonic structures, too). 20th-century composers turned to these ancient modes for an alternative to the conventional major and minor scales, and they invented novel modal structures for the same purpose.

Some of the Dorian modes, and some other modes too, are significant in Jazz theory -- modal Jazz tends to establish a single mode and build both chords and tunes with it, as opposed to drawing harmonies out of the full chromatic scale and rethinking the compatible melodic notes afresh with each harmony. Miles Davis' Kind of Blue and John Coltrane's Coltrane are classic examples.

A similar usage of modes is common in plenty of pop music but I'm not sure the term "modal" is applied much in this context.

Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Sunday, 20 April 2003 01:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I can never get a straight answer as to what 'syncopated' means... can someone give a good explanation with an example?

Elliot (Elliot), Sunday, 20 April 2003 01:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Syncopated: the emphasized notes conflict, rather than coinciding, with the beat.

Compare two songs from Revolver:

The tunes in "Eleanor Rigby" feature a lot of syncopation. If you tap your foot to the beat while you listen to or sing the opening phrase, you'll notice that all the long notes fall in between the beats (foot-tapping points) rather than on them:

Eleanor Rig-by picks up the rice in the church where a wedding has been

"Yellow Submarine", on the other hand, is modelled on a rhythmically simple march with very little syncopation. The points of musical emphasis coincide with the beats (foot-tapping points).

"Eleanor Rigby" is just a mild example of syncopation compared to what you might find in drum'n'bass, say.

Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Sunday, 20 April 2003 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Nice one Paul. You should be a music teacher. Music teachers always use Eleanor Rigby as an example of everything don't they. I remember having to learn "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" at school. We rehearsed it over and over. I was eventually able to empathise with John Lennon's hatred of that song.

UK and London people: what's Brokenbeat? What are its formal rhythm rules, why are the rhythms broken - and what is broken? I haven't heard any, just heard about it.

colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Sunday, 20 April 2003 02:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks, Paul. I kind of understand that. I think I need to learn more music theory before it'll really make sense. Or maybe learn how to play something besides three-chord songs.

JesseFox (JesseFox), Sunday, 20 April 2003 03:33 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, Colin's post prompts me to stick my head out as a real know-nothing about hip-hop and the like (I've just started to "get" "flow", thank you ILM): What exactly are breakbeats?

OleM (OleM), Sunday, 20 April 2003 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Paul: In general, I agree with your exposition of modes -- but I have to admit that using "Dorian" as a synonym for the church modes is new to me. I thought the term "Dorian" was just used about one of the church modes (white keys, starting at D), alongside the Phrygian, Mixolydian, Aeolian etc modes. Is it really also used about the system as a whole?

OleM (OleM), Sunday, 20 April 2003 10:05 (twenty-two years ago)

OleM, yeah, the whole family of Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, and so on is sometimes called the "Dorian modal system"; I happen to have old ties to a school where this was a big part of the curriculum, so it might be less common than I assume. One reason the term is useful is that a more historically accurate model of the old Church modes would need to take into account things like the distinction between plagal and authentic modes (for each tonic, there's an authentic mode conceived with the tonic at the upper and lower bounds, and a plagal mode with the tonic in the middle of the range -- this type of thinking has fallen out of the modern idea of mode). The Medieval "mode I" is the authentic Dorian mode, "mode II" is Hypodorian (the corresponding plagal mode), and so on.

Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Sunday, 20 April 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, OleM, I think I know the answer to that one at least. Breakbeats are the sections in old funk (usually) records where the instruments drop out and the drums keep rolling. They're breaks because everyone except the drummer takes a break, and are prized by DJs looking for raw drums to sample and loop. Hence, Breakbeat (or Breaks, or New School Breaks) is a genre where tracks are constructed from a base of breakbeats (usually funk grooves). A lot of hip hop is, of course, break based. Recently the idea of breaks seems to have extended to tracks which use, not a break lifted off an ols funk record, but a constructed or programmed rhythm which sounds as if it could have come from an old funk record - eg, beacuse the individually sampled sounds have an old school quality to them, and are programmed in a way that replicates old funk rhythms. I think.

I'm pretty sure Brokenbeat is something different though, and have ready that it involves taking out the 1,2, 3 or 4 from a 4/4 groove. But I'm not sure. Anyone?

colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Sunday, 20 April 2003 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.c4vct.com/kym/humor/muscterm.htm


HA HA HA!! these aren't very funny.

scott seward, Sunday, 20 April 2003 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

What's to be proud of in not writing bridges?

the pinefox, Sunday, 20 April 2003 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

What exactly is dub?

I'm aware that it is a form of reggae music with stomach-rumbling bass. But how is this produced, and why are dub pioneers such as Lee Scratch Perry considered to be brilliant sound engineers?

bert (bert), Sunday, 20 April 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Syncopation:

one-AND-two-AND-three-AND-four-and-ONE-and-two-AND-THREE-and-four-AND

Mike Taylor (mjt), Sunday, 20 April 2003 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

What's to be proud of in not writing bridges?

Well, in the interview I read, Lucinda was talking about how people (especially producers and label people) used to give her shit for not writing bridges -- "you gotta have a bridge, everyone has a bridge," etc. And she just said, nope, I don't a bridge to get where I'm goin'. And she was right, too.

(Aw, it's like a rock'n'roll fable. How cute!)

JesseFox (JesseFox), Sunday, 20 April 2003 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

[Ed. -- don't need a bridge...]

JesseFox (JesseFox), Sunday, 20 April 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Bert, the very short answer is that dub was originally invented when reggae tracks were remixed with the vocal track dubbed out (ie, removed). The vocal-free tracks were very popular. Before too long, producers such as Lee Perry, King Tubby et al were getting creative with the performance aspect of the instrumental mix, adding effects like echo, twisting the eq, and getting happy with the mute buttons and levels etc. The resultant developments wwent on to influence all kinds of music, especially techno and drum 'n' bass.

There are much longer answers than that though. The history of the development of dub is covered in a few recent books. It's fascinating, a series of happy accidents and creative wingings. Erm, a google search on "dub" "lee Perry" and "King Tubby" will unearth some stuff for you I'm sure.

colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Monday, 21 April 2003 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Can someone explain what '16th note sequencer bass patterns' are in terms that a 5yr old would understand?

Also, what exactly does an 'arpeggiated bassline' sound like?

(yep, I've been reading http://members.aol.com/blissout/electroclash.htm)

Ian SPACK (Ian SPACK), Monday, 21 April 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

An arpeggiated bassline is a baseline that goes up and down the notes of a chord (for example, the chord C-major contains the notes C, E and G, so an arpeggiated bassline on it could go something like C-E-G-E-C-E-G-E-C; the pattern of notes isn't as important as the fact that they're all in the same chord and in most cases they're played quickly). The end effect can be best described as "burbling".

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 April 2003 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

four weeks pass...
What does "chromatic scales" mean?

man, Monday, 19 May 2003 07:55 (twenty-two years ago)

they go and down up by steps of a half (= a semitone)

mark s (mark s), Monday, 19 May 2003 08:14 (twenty-two years ago)

how do know when garage beats are two-step. What other variations are there?

2-step: emphasis on a constant snare drum rhythm on counts 2 and 4 with a syncopated kick drum.
4-on-the-floor: emphasis on a constant kick drum rhythm on counts 1/2/3/4.

Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 19 May 2003 09:20 (twenty-two years ago)

2-step:

1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
Bd x x
Sn x x
Hh . . . . . . . .

Andrew (enneff), Monday, 19 May 2003 10:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Because the bass kick is syncopated, the snares become the focal point of the beat. The "gap" between the first snare and the second bass kick is really endearing (? my best description), but as a whole 2-step is overdone.

Andrew (enneff), Monday, 19 May 2003 10:06 (twenty-two years ago)

The term '2 step' didn't originate with garage. It was earlier applied to roughly produced British r&b of the late '80s to early '90s
as in '2 step soul' aka 'street soul'. Maybe it had another life describing another form of music even earlier than this. I guess it must have its origins in the terminology of reggae somewhere.

David (David), Monday, 19 May 2003 10:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Can someone explain what '16th note sequencer bass patterns' are

This is where the bass synth fills in all the 16th notes in the bar.
Like 'I Feel Love' or Giorgio Moroder generally.

David (David), Monday, 19 May 2003 10:18 (twenty-two years ago)


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