Crucial figures in the development of modern music whod could not play a musical instrument in any way that Geir Hongro would consider "musical"

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Captain Beefheart (OK, I'm cheating a bit, he blew a mean blues harp)

Lee Perry (a little bit of percussion: a virtuoso on the toy hammer)

George Clinton (even less of a singer than Lee Perry)

King Tubby (no singing OR playing detectable)

I could have mentioned James Brown but for the fact that he plays organ accepatbly. Joe Meek probably isn't crucial.

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

John Cage.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

John Leckie can't play a note.
Orbital can't actually play any kind of instrument except a sequencer.

― P K (Debord), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

... not sure about that one. Didn't he play piano?

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

...John Cage I mean

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sure he did, but his pianist of choice to play his own pieces was David Tudor.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

... well so was Stockhausen's but him and Cage were both still pianists.

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

even so, I don't think Geir would consider John Cage's piano playing "musical," as that's the point of this thread (I thought).

― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, the wording of the question and the examples you provided seem to be at odds, sorta.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah but I'm pretty sure that Cage could have played in a style that might qualify for Geir's approval if he tried and no doubt started out playign Geirmusic - after all Stockhausen played a mean jazz piano (or does Geir not consider jazz to be "music").

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

none of Massive Attack past or present (including Tricky) have any kind of musical ability + Mushroom was the only one with any slight studio nas.

― P K (Debord), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

No - the point of the thread is people who simply can't play an instrument at all. I added the Geir bit just to annoy him. I thought of another one:

Mark E. Smith

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

MES plays ok guitar

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

... not when the Fall were any good he couldn't

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

He was on rhythm before he sang, tho. He was probably pretty dodgy, but at least capable.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Have you heard him play guitar? He can't play it, try the title track of "Live At the Witch Trials", it's even worse than his violin playing...

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I have, and I'm happy to accept him as a non-playing figure, it's just HOW was he in the Fall playing rhythm guitar when Bramah (I think) was singing?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Grand Master Flash

― jm (jtm), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Andy Gill of Gang of Four?
Arto Lindsay of DNA?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Andy Gill of Gang of Four?
Arto Lindsay of DNA?

You're joking surely? Andy Gill could certainly play guitar.

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes indeed he could (and he's one of my favorites), but he was hardly conventional, no?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Kraftwerk?

― SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I can see this thread title is going to cause problems: I mean PEOPLE WHO CANNOT PLAY A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT AT ALL. Not people who play or compose in a non-conventional way - because usually, they have learned to play conventionally and rejected that and decided to play unconventionally instead: see Andy Gill, John Cage, even my old mate Derek Bailey etc etc etc.

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Kraftwerk

Well Ralf Hutter plays fair keyboards - no Keith Emerson, but who would want him to be? Florian Schneider blows a mean concert flute.

Maybe I should change the title of the thread to include the ability to play a Beatles tune on yr respective instrument. I'm pretty sure Ralf Hutter could hammer out a "Let It Be" or a "Hey Jude". I can.

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Well Robert Johnson somewhere in there regardless.

― jm (jtm), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

... I'm beginning to wish I hadn't bothered with this thread. Not only can Robert Johnson PLAY guitar, he's a virtuoso.

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

genesis p-orridge, chris carter, cosey fanny tutti and peter christopherson.

― rexJr., Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Well now I'm feeling Geirish!

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Talented but shurly not in the geirworld.(in re to throbbing gristle)

― rexJr., Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah. Could John Lydon play anything? he likes to claim he can't/couldn't

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

kraftwerk

they were all classically trained

― ddd, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

... I'm beginning to wish I hadn't bothered with this thread. Not only can Robert Johnson PLAY guitar, he's a virtuoso.

Well DUH, but Geir doesn't seem to like blues guitar.

― jm (jtm), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

*sigh* Nevermind...

― jm (jtm), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

It me who should be DUH-ing: what an idiot I was for mentioning Geir in the title thread!

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom Moulton?
Georgio Moroder?
RZA
Marley Marl
U Roy

― buttch (Oops), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

derek bailey ;-)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Good old Derek. I wish I'd never written that letter now - bit of a whinge. If I hadn't gone to the pub straight after seeing DB with Milo Fine I might not have been worked up such a state of peevishness with the old boy.

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

haha nothing like a drunken rant eh?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

On the contrary Julio - that letter is EXACTLY like a drunken rant! Still Wire annoys me with the reverence it treats certain people with - Keiji Haino is another one.

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

the prob is you just can't force bad reviews out of ppl. there is a possibility that most of what the guy does is genuinely liked by most of the staff there. The thing is you have to come out with ways of making derek bailey reviews interesting. its the challenge. I definetely wouldn't review every rec he releases.

same with haino etc. I definetely cut down on the amount of reviews.

thing is, if you want to read bad reviews then I think the only way is to give the record to someone who mostly reviews techno recs or hip-hop etc.

(I haven't looked at the new wire yet BTW. but andrew L did post on the beefheart thread yesterday. I'll pick it up after work.)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Buy it - but don't read my letter. It sucks!

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Joe Meek probably isn't crucial.

Hey now.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Eno?

― briania, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Ornette Coleman (for everything he plays except sax)

― Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Some of those guys probably could if only they wanted to. Their attitude towards "music" makes it more easy for people with no talent to claim they make "music" though.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Btw. a singer may theoretically be a good songwriter, which is more important than instrumental skill anyway. Writing good songs without being able to try them out on an instrument is difficult though (Beethoven managed, but he knew so much about composing in theory before he became deaf)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drf600/f656/f65684l1y2q.jpg, dammit!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 22:25 (twenty-two years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drf600/f656/f65684l1y2q.jpg, dammit

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Has anyone heard the recorder playing on 'I am the apeman' by Lee Scratch Perry? I think that was an influence on Geri Halliwell.

― bedroom, Thursday, 24 April 2003 04:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Peter Buck

― John Hunter, Thursday, 24 April 2003 05:42 (twenty-two years ago)

The Slits (limited musicians despite their considerable creativity)

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 24 April 2003 05:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Larry Levan

― Robin Goad (rgoad), Thursday, 24 April 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

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