Oh Madonna, Shut Up Already.

Dear Madonna,

That gap in your two front teeth is REALLY annoying. Get braces or something, Gwen Stefani did it, you can too. It'd just really help a lot.

-Your truely,
David Allen.

PS. You're a big dumb bitch.

by right light, you mean dim light, right?

"hott"

i'm calling bullshit on that-- 'frigging lame ass hippy' -- explain exactly what you mean by that.

again, please define.
make more jokes as you wish, but also lemme know what you meant by that phrase.

someone who lectures everyone on love and peace without any consideration for what real life is like (that is, hate and conflict). someone without a sense of humor. holier-than-thou.

as i said on another thread, and as other people are cynically pointing out here, some of the stuff she is quoted as saying at the top of this thread sounds suspect when coming from someone with all of her wealth, and seems hypocritical in light of her attacks on people illegally downloading her music...but i don't think she's really 'lecturing' people on love and peace. isn't she just sharing some realizations that she's come to over the years? is it so inconceivable to believe that she's expressing her genuine, heartfelt beliefs?

madonna is a middle-aged woman who i'm sure is all too familiar with the ways of the world; with the hate and conflict that exists everywhere. one can hardly occupy the position in the world that she does without witnessing and even being a part of plenty of not-so-good vibes. in light of that, in the above quote i think she is basically saying, in a not particularly heavy-handed way, 'y'know i've seen/done/been through a lot of shit, and it's just not worth it...one doesn't have to be dog-eat-dog just because the rest of the world seems to be.'

she can't very well avoid her celebrity status now; it's too late, so why should she not use her good fortune to speak about positive things instead of totally superficial shit? was she a 'frigging lame ass hippy' when she used her fame to draw attention to the AIDS crisis and helped raise money to find a cure?

and, oh, yeah, what is wrong with gappy teeth? absolutely nothing. (good god, y'all). 'imperfect' teeth are very beautiful.

but your use of the phrase 'lame ass hippy' is like when people throw around the words 'granola' or 'treehugger'. they may just be making a funny, but eventually it seeps into the heads of people, and it becomes this big thing, a frozen concept in people's minds which results in them instantly dismiss things...like they hear of someone making a point of eating organic foods and then they're like, 'oh yeah, isn't that just for freaky granola people?' or someone wants to encourage people to compost or something, and joe sixpack (or twelve-pack, as homer simpson would say) is like 'wull hell, i ain't no treehugger'. and whenever anyone dares to express some idealistic vision, people jump down their throats-- 'c'mon, hippy, the sixties are over. get real. this is the way things are. get used to the real world'. when, things actually do change in the 'real world', sometimes actually for the better, sometimes actually because people have spoken out, engaged in activism, and so forth.

i object to your caricaturizing of people like 'fucking Oprah'. i mean, oprah is not by any means a pollyanna; she's just an example of someone, who, like madonna, has already obtained all of the material things that people invest so much struggle and conflict in, and from her position she has the luxury of catching her breath and realizing that the things that the people are fighting like cats and dogs over are really not worth all the trouble.

what is oprah supposed to do? devote everyone of her shows to makeovers? in a country where most people are like 'rah-rah, go george bush, go don rumsfeld, let's make war all around the world' thank god some people with high profiles in the media bother to make the case that a more peaceful, loving world is actually an option. madonna's oprah-izing, or whatever may you want to call it, may be tired and obvious to you, but i would venture to say that many don't really give these things much consideration until they hear it coming from the mouths of a celebrity. americans worship and hang on celebrities' words almost as much as islamic fundamentalists hang on the words of their mullahs, so personally, i find it refreshing and encouraging when cebrities speak in this way. i can hardly think of a better way to get the average person thinking...since most of them are usually dwelling on 'entertainment tonight' trivialities anyhow, then i say, may the trivialities be replaced by issues of some substance. a hell of a lot more people read 'entertainment weekly' then 'the nation' or what have you. witness the enormous fuss being made by people over what the dixie chicks are saying.

Who somehow believe that spirituality is antithetical to spirituality? (When in occult/eastern traditions such as the Cabala and yoga/tantra, respectively, they are in congruence with one another..)_

Are rich and famous people not allowed to have spiritual realizations and transformations, unless they somehow "PROVE" it by........what?? Abdicating their famous position in society and go into hiding, renouncing the world by entering a monastery? Giving all of their hard-earned wealth to poor SOBs like you? Throwing away free MP3s to file-sharing systems and fixing their teeth?

Isn't this the same woman who once was condemned for singing about sexual equality and emancipation, due to perceived exploitation and manipulation of gender issues, or an alleged lack of sincerity, authenticity due to supposed perpetual calculation?

If she's had a common theme for her PAST THREE ALBUMS and consistent in her Cabalistic/yogic beliefs for the PAST SEVEN YEARS since her personal transformation (which took place after the birth of her daughter), exactly what more does she have to due to demonstrate her authenticity and sincerity to you?

Is it not a rockist concept in the first place that the artist must possess authenticity? Weren't rockists, or people like Alex in NYC, the ones who were criticizing her a decade ago when she was making "disposable" dance-pop? Isn't rockism to blame for all these recent singer-songerwriter-y aspirations, sloppy as they are? She can never win.

This is totally laughable. The Kabbalah Center that she subscribes to is widely regarded as a money-grubbing quackhouse for celebrities. It gets zero respect from major Kabbalist circles (including serious authorities, like Gershom Scholem). If you want a good example of how "serious" about the Kabbalah Madonna is, just take a look at the logo she used for her last tour - it's got the Kabbalistic "Tree of Life" in the background, except it's MISSING a key sefirot (Keter). Her spiritual credentials are highly suspect not just because of her status - which, yes, does invite some scrutiny as to her lifestyle being inconsistent with her professed beliefs - but because she demonstrates a pretty weak grasp (and usage) of the Kabbalah in general.

Have you ever heard of this rich and famous guy, oh what was his name, SIDDHARTHA? Happened to GIVE UP all his fortune and fame to find spiritual enlightenment. By all accounts, Jesus was a bum. And the Kabbalah is pretty up-front about shunning displays of wealth and power (oh yeah, Madonna NEVER does that) and turning inward, to an interior, mystical worldview. Madonna don't seem to be doing that. Writing a song bragging about yr newfound enlightenment doesn't really suggest enlightenment. Not to me anyway.

as i said above, it IS an interesting message to joe twelvepack and cindy winebox, because they usually just hear celebrities yap about botox or their divorces. so presumably jesus, gandhi, buddha, moses, lao-tzu, mohammed, mother theresa, god, fucking whoever...their messages are all 'tired' as well; they should be revamped and made flashier, glitzier, together with a hint of scandal, right? it may be a 'tired' thing to say, but maybe it needs to be said again, 'cos there are young'ens who have never heard it, and old ones who seem to have let it pass in one ear and straight out the other (hence the current state of the world).

it's not as sophisticated a message as, say, arundhati roy or noam chomsky would deliver, but it's at least something. it may not be 'interesting' enough for you; heck, i think paul wolfowitz' message is 'interesting', but also dangerous and destructive. what in heaven's name is so wrong with her saying positive things? again, you're totally trivializing it by caricaturizing it as being 'about everyone getting in a big circle an hugging'/'singing kumbaya'. she's talking about the ultimate values people choose to hold in life, and the myth of the 'american dream', which is pretty deep stuff. when your family or loved ones express deep heartfelt affection for you, or talk about their values in life, their hopes/dreams for their lives in the world, do you automatically put them down and find a way to reduce and ridicule whatever they've just bared to you? to bastardize the song, what's so boring about peace, love, and understanding?

i mostly respect madonna for it, in contrast to the attitude i hold regarding the bulk of her career, which i maintain is rubbish until y'all manage to convince me otherwise.

Wow, you really do think you're above everyone else, don't you? If anything, people here are nicer about her new image than any of the people I know "in real life"--you have a handful of people cracking "Material Girl" jokes versus the "obnoxious ex-whore" comment I heard at work today when her song came on internet radio. Somehow, I think Joe Twelvepack, as you so charmingly put it, doesn't really give a rat's ass what Princess thinks about life.

"Oh Americans, they are obsessed with money and stuff, they should be nice to their neighbor"--I don't give a shit if it's "nice", it's boring and the greatest sin if you are a public figure is being boring, particularly in the entertainment industry. I see little indication that Madonna's previous pre-maturity/evolution opinion was "Be mean to your neighbor, fuxors".

not really, but i think some people are kind of dumb. in fact, i know so. doesn't mean i think i'm 'above' them.

"Somehow, I think Joe Twelvepack, as you so CHARMINGLY put it, doesn't really give a rat's ass what Princess thinks about life"

joe twelvepack. it's a joke. but like most jokes, funny/sad because it's based in reality. have you ever known people who come straight home from their shitty jobs and guzzle a twelve pack of beer in front of the tv? i have. there are tons of people in america who do that. tons.
i think your sanctimoniousness, or however i should describe the offense you're seeming to take regarding my vision of, yes, joe twelvepack/cindy winebox, is phony.

if you're that obsessed with being entertained, and find boringness to be such a sin, then i feel bad for you. do you find trees boring? the sky boring? do you discard people from your life when they no longer serve their function of entertaining you?

i think madonna's pre-maturity opinion, as she explains, was 'i don't give a fuck about my neighbors, unless they can help me achieve success, fame, fortune or unless they possess those qualities themselves.' some of the ones who didn't fall into those categories, i'm sure she was mean to.

myself, i've been around assholes who were quite 'entertaining', and i've been around nice folks who were maybe not quite so entertaining. give me the nice folks, every time.

As much as I like to root for Ally, I would guess you're right "OTM", as they say.. >hic, burp, etc.<

I MUST RESIST OBVIOUS JOKE! I MUST RESIST OBVIOUS JOKE! ARRRGGGHH!

Too bad you don't fit into either category.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Everyone around here already knew that though.

Somehow I feel that pointing out again that no one is saying "Nice people suck" is really fruitless, and that we're merely ridiculing the fact that Madonna seems to think this is an interesting, noteworthy, amazing statement is just beyond the comprehension of this thread at this point, so instead I'm totally rooting for the firestarting to begin. Let's discuss our arson tales. Once I tried to set a hotel room on fire, but I was way too drunk to accomplish it properly. How about you, DY?

A "friend" of mine who had been dealing weed exclusively as a livelihood for several years totally lost his mind, had been acting extremely paranoid, etc. One night at 4am he got naked and burned down the house he was sharing with my friends (which included a huge chunk of my band's recording gear and hours and hours of tape), ran down the street in a stupor, ended up in the psych ward. Upon getting out, denied everything, hid out with his parents, and never spoke to any of us again. He's got an ass-whooping coming to him if I ever see him in the street...

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/madonnasplash1.html

what the fuck is up with this dehumanising crap?

    -- Boy George, from Coral Amende's Rock Confidential

BEST QUOTE EVER.

Plus, I love how a reviewer dissed Madonna's upcoming appearance on "Will & Grace", saying that she wouldn't be as good as Cher was because Cher actually makes fun of herself and her appearances have been purely kitsch.

Look, it's ok to be a humanitarian and it's ok to want to help save the world. I admire Bono and Tori Amos, to name two, for being involved with charities and wanting to help people out. I just don't think that one should go around being Holier Than Thou because of it, nor should it be a case of someone more fortunate than you making you feel bad about wanting something out of life or something you don't have yet.

End of story. I'm sure you're thrilled. :)

**Exclusive Details**

The former Material Girl now believes "the beast is the modern world that we live in!"

"The material world. The physical world. The world of illusion, that we think is real. We live for it, we're enslaved by it. And it will ultimately be our undoing," Madonna explains in her new documentary film, I'M GOING TO TELL YOU A SECRET.

In the movie, which will premiere at the Ziegfeld Theater in New York City on Tuesday, Madonna warns how people "are going to go to hell, if they don't turn from their wicked behavior."

The singer, who is also promoting the upcoming release of her new music CD, declares: "Most priests are gay."

"I refer to an entity called 'The Beast'. I feel I am describing the world that we live in right now. To me 'The Beast' is the modern world that we live in."

Developing...

"Don't kiss The Beast/Be superior at least" : Prince, "Positivity"

?? and??

The Kennedy assassination is part of 'The Beast' that haunts the film; JFK, as much as Hannah, is a Shakespearean ghost constantly gnawing at Nixon. Nixon's obsessive love/hate relationship with Kennedy is an entrenched mythology that pops up in almost every biography, and here it has an archetypal proportion. Nixon is the ugly Black Prince heckled by the ghost of the Golden Prince whose throne he usurped. Nixon tells H.R. Haldeman (James Woods) that he achieved high office over "four bodies" (he associates the dead Kennedys with his own lost brothers Arthur and Harold, the guilt for whose demise his mother regularly enforced). As Watergate is about to bring him down, the lonely king strolls the corridor of the immortals, at last confronting a portrait of JFK, saying to himself, "When they look at you they see what they want to be; when they look at me they see what they are." The Golden Bough idea is overdrawn when Nixon, in the same scene, tells Haig that all leaders must be sacrificed, and "I am that sacrifice." Here again a great deal of sophisticated introspection (not to mention erudition) is imputed to Nixon, largely to serve the kind of intellectual conceits Coppola stuffed into Apocalypse Now, except that Stone is far less ham-handed. The real problem is Stone's constant return to myth and bad poetry when the facts contain all the drama.

Sooner or later they'll get back together and marry.

that's better.