Apple Launches New Download Service

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I love everything Apple, so I have high hopes for iTunes 4, which I just downloaded.
What's the future hold for iTunes? I'm hoping there will be a lot more content in the near future. I'm disappointed that I wasn't able to find any of the following, which are on my list to download:

Tonight I?m Gonna Give the Drummer Some ? Amy Rigby
All for the Best ? Miracle Legion
Syracuse University ? Bluebells
Ring Worm ? Van Morrison
Day by Day ? Jimmy Scott
Light Bath ? David Byrne (Catherine Wheel)
President Kennedy?s Mile ? Screaming Blue Messiahs
One Monkey Don?t Stop the Show ? Big Maybelle
New York?s Alright If You Like Saxophones ? Fear
Sound of the Rain ? Dils

Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Monday, 28 April 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm getting a lot of error messages, too. Bob Dylan is listed under "exclusive tracks," but I can't get to the song. Lots of bugs still to work out (a la Microsoft).

Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Monday, 28 April 2003 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Pardon the question marks in the first post. I copied and pasted and the dashes got translated differently.

Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Monday, 28 April 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

does anyone have any insight into the ipod supposedly now being able to create it's own playlists? i'm assuming this is part of the 1.3 software upgrade??

ron (ron), Monday, 28 April 2003 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm DLing iTunes 4 now, is it any cop?

"Exclusive tracks from Sugar Ray" - Stop that train! Nordicskillz just bought a one-way ticket!

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 28 April 2003 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

New 30GB iPod with a dock you can keep hooked up to your stereo... yes!

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Monday, 28 April 2003 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

does anyone have any insight into the ipod supposedly now being able to create it's own playlists? i'm assuming this is part of the 1.3 software upgrade??

or firmware upgrade, yeah. I'm assuming the same.

Steve sez they are continually uploading songs every day. I'm hoping some indies get on board soon.

At the risk of sounding like one of the slashdot whiners, I'm also interested in finding out how 128k AAC sounds over my monitors vs. CD. Hmmm.

Millar (Millar), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Can you burn this new ACC format onto a CD?

Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

How do downloaded tracks sound? What are they encoded at?

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 28 April 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Jazzbo: Yes. Unlimited times according to Apple.
Milo: dunno about sound. MP4/ACC is supposed to be light years better than MP3, but it's only 128k.

Millar (Millar), Monday, 28 April 2003 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

128k AAC is about equal to 192k MP3

With AAC you lose less quality and you get a smaller file size*

Adam Flybot, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 00:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Completely unscientific AAC encoding test...

I loaded up iTunes 4 and QuickTime 6.2 and ripped a CD that I'm very familiar with (Spiritualized's Lazer Guided Melodies) at 128kps AAC encoding and compared it with a 192kps mp3 encoding. I'm not a hard core sound engineer and the only spectrum analyzers I have are my ears and my admittedly rather poor hearing.

Bottom line: I can't tell the difference between the two encodings. In fact the only difference I could tell is the total file size. 83.9MB for the complete album as mp3s. 56.6MB as AACs.

Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 07:33 (twenty-two years ago)

sounds like witchcraft to me.

brian badword (badwords), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 07:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Interview with Steve Jobs about the new service

Fortune Magazine

mms (mms), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 08:29 (twenty-two years ago)

The iTunes Music Store is not available in your country yet. You will be able to browse music and listen to previews, but you won't be able to purchess music unless your billing address is in the United States.

I don't see any previews, however.

JoB (JoB), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 10:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I ripped Squeeze's East Side Story last night. Sounds as a good as any commercial CD to these ears.
But as far as selection goes, I'm not impressed. Not yet anyway. The store resembles Columbia House or BMG -- great for someone just starting a collection, but not so great for me (and, I suspect, most people on this board).

Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 11:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the way that Chris Barrus can only understand technology through the use of dronerock!

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 11:19 (twenty-two years ago)

The iTunes Music Store is not available in your country yet. You will be able to browse music and listen to previews, but you won't be able to purchess music until your country establishes an interim democratic government that is acceptable to the United States.

Damn!

Paul in Iraq (Paul in Santa Cruz), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I read that in many cases Apple encoded their files directly from master tapes rather than ripping CDs—k-kewl!

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

If the quality of the downloadable AAC files is equivalent to a mp3 encoded at only 192kbps it's certainly not worth 99¢ per song... I'm far from an audiophile but I can easily tell the difference between cd quality and the level of compression audible at 192kbps. I've yet to hear AAC compression, so maybe it won't be as noticable, but I refuse to pay for downloadable music unless the quality is equal to what I would buy in a store. I can notice mp3 compression at any bitrate below ~256, and on recordings with very rich sound it can bother the hell out of me. I'll have to AAC encode some albums this afternoon to see what differences there may be.

Bobby D Gray (bedhead), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)


the differences of 128K aac and 192K mp3 shouldn't be a big voodoo issue. since the creation of the mp3 standard, there have been several smarter formats that create smaller files that sound better. (better still being largely a matter of opinion and of what you're encoding.)

i'm still skeptical. digital rights management is still not the way in my opinion. being able to transfer a file to 3 computers is still not enough. i should be able to make a personal copy no matter how many times i need to. if a tape warps, i can remake the tape with my cd. and i can do that within fairuse as much as i'd like. same shit with a sound file. 15 years from now, i'll still have my cd. but i can know for a fact that 15 years from now, i won't legally be able to have that sound file. i will probably have gone through more than 3 computers.

"History proves that what works is the simplest, most intuitive thing," said recording artist Seal, who was on hand for the unveiling. "Technology is only a good idea if it helps you. As soon as it starts taking time out of your day, that technology is bad technology." (http://news.com.com/2100-1027-998675.html)

they still miss the point.
m.

msp, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

since the creation of the mp3 standard, there have been several smarter formats that create smaller files that sound better.

Yes, but this new one allows us Mac people to be smug(ger).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

stupid rights management question:

- so you can burn it to audio CD unlimited times, but only share it between three computers? What stops you from burning it to audio CD, then ripping it back to MP3?

doug (doug), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Supposedly it sounds awful if you do that, I don't see how though.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

15 years from now, i'll still have my cd. but i can know for a fact that 15 years from now, i won't legally be able to have that sound file. i will probably have gone through more than 3 computers.

The "3 computers" thing means that you can only have the file on three computers at a time (and iPods don't count as computers). If you're not using a computer any more, you can "deauthorize" that computer and transfer the authorization to another computer.

What stops you from burning it to audio CD, then ripping it back to MP3?

Nothing. Go right ahead. Of course there will be some sound quality loss due to re-encoding, but if you're not some crazed uber-sensitive audiophile you probably won't notice or care.

Nick Mirov (nick), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick read my previous post. "Awful." It came from an article in Fortune though so... caveat emptor?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll believe "awful" when I hear "awful".

Nick Mirov (nick), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

So if I understand correctly, this is what's happening: Apple allows 99 cent downloads. Said downloads are of far greater use than other music services are providing, but still of limited use. You own the file, but you can only share it so much.

Now imagine a scenario in which ordinary file-sharing programs -- Soulseek, for instace -- begin turning up more and more search results of these restricted AAC files. You download the song, and it won't play. Or it will play, but it will burn only silence, because that file has already exceeded it's three computer limit. Slowly but surely, it becomes impossible to get a reliable copy of "In da Club" that you can listen to on your car CD player -- unless you pony up the dollar for it.

Now, is this necessarily a bad thing? Use 45's as a comparison (and I think that as the music industry again moves away from albums, you'll see a lot more of this comparison). You could loan it to people, and when cassettes came along, you could even tape it. But in the end, it was worth everyone's while to just shell out the meager amount to own it themselves. After it all, it's a single -- it's a cheap piece of crap that may or may not contain the glory of God. A small risk for the potential reward. And if your little trifle is good enough, and enough people pay 99 cents for it, you get rich. Beautiful.

There's a world of possibility here. It could, done correctly, be the beginning of regular people making records again, and caring about making records, because each song holds the promise of fame and wealth. That's the way it was done in the 50's and 60's, and that's the way it could be again. But sooner or later, we the listeners have to cough up that all-important dollar.

Now where are the holes in this plan? Is it all about fair use? Is it really that important that this product be infinitely replacable?

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

in the above, when I say "records," I mean "mp3s."

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that scenario is a looong way off. I think the day that the number of AAC files available via p2p eclipses the number of available mp3s is still faaaar off, if it ever happens. Just because there will be these files that one can pay for does not mean that the free, already ubiquitous files will go away. If anything, I imagine them being replaced by another totally free format, ogg for example.

Bobby D Gray (bedhead), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, if that even happens, it will surely be possible to identify the restricted files. I believe that those who want something for free will always be craftier than those who want them to pay.

Bobby D Gray (bedhead), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

In the interest of Science, I've sacrificed $0.99 and a CD-R to see how much sound quality is lost in an AAC-to-MP3 conversion. You can play along at home too!

Here is an mp3 of The Flaming Lips' "Race For The Prize" I ripped from my own copy of the CD in high-quality VBR (200 kbps).
Here is the same track that I bought from the iTunes music store, ripped to CD, and converted back to mp3 (also in high-quality VBR, although ending up at 194 kbps).

Size of the mp3 I ripped from my own CD: 6 MB
Size of the mp3 I got from the AAC conversion: 5.8 MB
Size of the AAC file: 3.8 MB

Nick Mirov (nick), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

nick/kenan, thanks for the heads up on the deauthorization feature... i didn't know that was part of the deal. that sounds more reasonable. being able to lend a file is a pretty interesting concept indeed. i could maybe feel a little better about that.

i'm still a little curious about what happens when a computer crashes and you can't reconnect to it to deauthorize the file and get one of your uses back.

hmm.

i wish this whole thing could be taken over by a non-profit 3rd party as well. soon enough the apple thing is going to conflict in a big bad way with microsoft's own DRM as well as the various other service's systems.

there should be a standard that all tech companies use to do this purchasing.

dvd was developed by commitee from the mistakes learned in the vhs/betamax wars... any new music format should be developed similarly.

until there's a clear stable format (like the cd was a stable alternative to the record and tape), the whole thing is gonna flop.
m.

ps an individual media product doesn't need to be infinitely replacable... but it's troubling that a collection could vanish. (or is it?) how would we feel if our records and cds and tapes just disappeared one day?

msp, Tuesday, 29 April 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

In the interest of Science...

You are a self-sacrificing public servant, and we thank you. I'm at work, tho. Can anyone else tell me what the difference in sound is? Approximately?

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Kenan's post a lot as it makes reference to how this whole process effects artists & their desire to create art (and to businesses and theie willingness to invest in the distribtuion of art) (where art=rekkids obv). Somebody flooded Napster with a fake GnR "Chinese Democracy" boot and I dunno about you-all but I gave up trying to find the real thing after listening to the same shitty non-GnR song a few times (though admittedly it was quite funny). I mean, ninety-nine cents? Shoot, I'd pay ninety-nine cents to hear Ludacris sing "Froggie Went A-Courtin'." Bring on the Kenan Solution!

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

John, I hope you were only trying to find the real thing in the interest of Science.

J (Jay), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the way that Chris Barrus can only understand technology through the use of dronerock!

*bows*

Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

In the interest of Science, I've sacrificed $0.99 and a CD-R to see how much sound quality is lost in an AAC-to-MP3 conversion. You can play along at home too!

I can't really tell much of a difference. Not one that matters to me, anyway. Anyone hear something that I don't?

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I hear the devil telling me to kill everybody at school and then commit seppuku with a frisbee, but other than that everything sounds fine.

Millar (Millar), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Just noticed that iTunes 4 libraries and play lists are not just sharable via Rendezvous, but also via the whole godamn internet. In iTunes, just go to the Advanced menu to Connect To Shared Music and punch in an IP address.

Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

The singer's voice sounds kind of wobbly.

Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:14 (twenty-two years ago)

tee fucking hee

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Boo hoo, I actually can't get the AAC->ripped->mp3 file to play on my Mac.

Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, they sound about the same to me, too. (Thanks, Nick, it was fun comparing them.)

Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Ok, someone tell me how to get a song that I bought from the apple store to my ipod! I'm trying to drag the song onto the top of the ipod icon in the itunes window, which is how I always load it, but it won't work!

Boring technical setup: I'm on mac os 10.2, the newest quicktime, new itunes. I bought my ipod in Feb, but haven't yet downloaded the new ipod software update. And my ipod isn't set up with that "auto update when you plug it in" setting- i have "enable firewire disk use" on. AArrrrrgghhhh!!! I've read the help stuff, you're supposed to be able to put songs you download on yr ipod! Will it only work if you don't have the firewire disk use settting on? Haven't read that anywhere, but that's my best guess. :-(

lyra (lyra), Thursday, 1 May 2003 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i think you need the newest software version, because the aac format support is a new feature, if i'm not mistaken

ron (ron), Thursday, 1 May 2003 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Aaarrgghh, more slow downloads over dialup! :-(

lyra (lyra), Thursday, 1 May 2003 03:42 (twenty-two years ago)

well, maybe a second opinion is in order. but you probably want that 1.3 version anyway for the onboard playlists.

ron (ron), Thursday, 1 May 2003 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's all yell.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

jm (jtm), Thursday, 1 May 2003 04:07 (twenty-two years ago)

+FL

ron (ron), Thursday, 1 May 2003 04:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I just ripped the second disc of the Stiff Little Fingers' All The Best at 320, MPEG and AAC.

AAC is a whopping 500Kb smaller, about 1/5 the size of the CD.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 1 May 2003 04:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Some News:

Apple claim 275,000 purchases in the first 18 hours, which is pretty good given the size of the mac user base. We'll see if this is sustained though. I guess a lot of people were trying it due to the novelty value of it all.

Matador are in talks to gain access to the service along with a lot of other independants.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 1 May 2003 10:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, 5 of those were mine! Now I have Spice Girls "2 Become 1" again- my other copy was only on a mixtape that I never listen to anymore.

lyra (lyra), Thursday, 1 May 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

According to Slashdot the music store is like crack rocks

Millar (Millar), Thursday, 1 May 2003 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, EMusic just re-encoded their entire catalogue LAME VBR avg 192.

I just joined up for three months ($11.95/mo.), even though they've got this download manager that's kind of a pain. Still, I've just downloaded all of the CCR albums, legally!

J (Jay), Thursday, 1 May 2003 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Slashdot is right. I've been at that iTunes music store for the last hour or so downloading, and the selection ain't even that good: it's the interface. Rulin'. Flat-out rulin'.

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 3 May 2003 03:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha, ha, this is a perfect example of when to stop upgrading software. Why pay 99¢ for a song when you can get it for free? 99¢ per song = $10 for 10 songs, same price as usual, but without cover art or high quality AIFF encoding.

Technology, suck my dick. I'm happy with:


  • iTunes pre OSX and LIMEWIRE
  • Photoshop 6
  • Illustrator 8 (5 was actually okay for a while and had better gradient tools)
  • Quark 4
  • Dreamweaver Ultradev and BBEdit
  • Flash 5


New software has no place in this world until it actually improves something.

Scaredy Cat, Saturday, 3 May 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but you shouldn't think about it as $10 for 10 songs- because yeah, if you want the whole album, just go buy it in a store at that price. It's genius because it's like a mini-return of the single: if you just want one song from the album, it's easy to get just that one.

If you have dialup, hunting around in limewire & waiting hours to download from it is a pain in the neck- I'd rather pay $.99 & have it over with.

(haha, and this is coming from a fvwm user ;-) )

lyra (lyra), Saturday, 3 May 2003 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Scaredy Cat,

that seems kinda dickish. Why shouldn't ya pay for a song? the musician has spent the time to create it, if you want it why is 99 cents so bad? From all I've read. Apple's model seems pretty fair to all involved.

btw, have ppl seen this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/04/business/04MUSI.html

H (Heruy), Saturday, 3 May 2003 22:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Scaredy Cat, Notice that iTunes and OS X do no stop you from using MP3's from other sources as windows XP might in its next incarnation.

Ed (dali), Monday, 5 May 2003 06:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Why pay 99¢ for a song when you can get it for free?

Umm, ethics.

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 5 May 2003 11:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, I could get smokes for free by shoplifting 'em, too, and the tobacco companies are even worse than the record companies, but if I'm gonna smoke I have a sort of responsibility to buy my own cigarettes.

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 5 May 2003 11:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I suppose that depends on whether you can steal them from the company directly or from the corner convenience store.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 5 May 2003 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't have as much of a sense of ethics as John does, and I love my free music. But I also acknowledge that it's finally in my own best interests to pay for as much music as I can. Incentive to create. It doesn't take a bajillion dollars, but it takes more than zero.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Monday, 5 May 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Is 99 cents still too much?

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,58684,00.html

"There's a good chance that if the price was as high as 50 cents, services would still suffer because they're facing, practically speaking, competition at zero."

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Monday, 5 May 2003 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

but you probably want that 1.3 version anyway for the onboard playlists

Ummm... I have 1.3 on my year-old iPod and I'm not sure what you mean by onboard playlists. Can I edit a playlist on my iPod??? If so, I can't figure out how.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 5 May 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

From a Billboard article, talking about concerns over the "99 cent price point":

"But sources say the major labels are charging Apple approximately 70 cents per download, so a lower price was not a viable option, considering other costs associated with the individual transactions."

Sam J. (samjeff), Monday, 5 May 2003 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...
Apple talks to the indies...

http://www.gnutellanews.com/article/6830

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 6 June 2003 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

If they hold to it it sounds like a beaut. The initial unease that some people seem to have over why they're working solely with the invite indie crew right now is perfectly logical when you think of the way they're going around this:

1) Get the majors on board first and foremost. Done, with results.

2) Get the big/choice indies on now that Apple can turn around and say, "See? Works like a charm."

3) After that, continue marketing outward.

The more this goes on, the more I think Jobs and company made a masterstroke and a half, so let's see how it goes...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 June 2003 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I liked everything that that recount said.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 6 June 2003 21:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Quoted:
if a song is over 7 minutes long, they won't offer it as a separate download. It will be available as part of the album only.

Which means it won't be any good for full mixes of dance singles (most of which are > 7m and not available as an album). Shit.

Siegbran (eofor), Friday, 6 June 2003 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe now producers will quit with the fucking meaningless 4 minute buildups at the beginning, then

Millar (Millar), Friday, 6 June 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Mm, I'd say this, Siegbran -- right now they're thinking mostly in terms in albums/selections from albums as opposed to singles. My guess is that this will change more the more they start dealing with specific labels in dance territory, etc. This is all still early days yet, and again they're essentially trying to build from the ground up.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 June 2003 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Will you guys all please send me 1 cent for each breath of air you take? I promise I'll brand it nicely and use a nice font, ok? Plus I'll do a lot of advertising on TV and on the sides of buildings. All you have to do is give me your credit card # and let me charge you a penny every time you inhale. Oh and also, I'm going to charge you double for your lungs, but I'll redesign them so that they work almost like a smoker's lungs, but they'll look really cool, ok? So just log on to my site and start giving me money.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 6 June 2003 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

You seem dubious.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 June 2003 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.rotovibe.com/images/spencerair.gif

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 6 June 2003 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Spencer I'm missing the part where your metaphor makes any sense at all.

Millar (Millar), Friday, 6 June 2003 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Spencer is saying that, "Wait, everything's on mp3 so why the hell pay for this anyway?" Apple's response -- "Better format, better prices, support the musicians you love." Spencer's response -- "Am I in fact doing that with your set-up?"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 June 2003 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

(Oh, and I want in on SpencerAir.com, as it will spark a new round of Internet startups and we'll all be rich again.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 June 2003 23:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned's OTM, basically, if you're going to arbitrarily pay Apple for something you can get for free, then why not pay me similarly?

Also, I'm not against paying people for creating music, but I'm just wondering why so many are jumping headlong into Apple's model. I suspect it's a further testament to the power of the Apple brand-machine.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 6 June 2003 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

There is that, but I'm also thinking that the fact that the model presentation -- select individual songs rather than full albums as desired, free previews, pay less for a full album than you would at most stores -- is appealing all around to both consumers and companies.

Now that said, eMusic was running a similar model in terms of choosing individual songs rather than full albums and essentially still goes at an exceptionally cheap flat rate, as you can see here. And they've already got a variety of indies on board, thus. So Spencer's note about the marketing is very appropriate -- eMusic has been trundling along but Apple's got the headlines, a new format, etc.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 June 2003 23:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, I'm also curious about the long-term commercial viability of recorded music, but that's for another thread... I'll also retract the bit about the smoker's lungs in order to keep things on track.

I'm just wondering about Apple's value proposition. I can download whatever I want at 192Kbps, single songs and full albums, for free on Slsk, Winmx, Kazaa lite, Limewire etc. Why should I give Apple money for that? It seems like the only positive thing is that artists will get some small amount per download - a good thing to be sure - but why give Apple your money? If you're really concerned about an artists financial well-being, then it's probably more effective to send them cash or go to a show...

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 7 June 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Spencer, if you had a simple, low-cost method of piping oxygen (plain, scented, and/or vitamin-fortified) into my home, car, and/or personal portable breathing device with a no-hassle billing policy, I'd say you'd have a pretty good business model on your hands.

Nick Mirov (nick), Saturday, 7 June 2003 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

neither Apple, eMusic or the free P2P networks out there can ever really approach the massive amount of music currently available on CD. I will bet you a large sum of money that no online database of songs will ever include more than 60% of the contents of my current CD collection. There is far too much music out there in the world for any server farm to economically store and provide. So on the one hand - I don't think the CD is in any trouble at all, and on the other - Spencer, that air analogy is totally horrible.

Millar (Millar), Saturday, 7 June 2003 22:20 (twenty-two years ago)

CDBaby.com leak is news in the UK now.BBC

V

V (1411), Sunday, 8 June 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Its worth noting that apple are using album to denote a collection of tracks, any length. So dance track over 7mins, you have to by the '12"' or the "EP". This may of course change, I'm just waiting for iTMS to be availible in the UK and for Traktor to support AAC.

Ed (dali), Sunday, 8 June 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

..and from the New York Times today.

Industry Offers a Carrot in Online Music Fight
By AMY HARMON


Like a lot of music fans roaming the Internet these days, David Bishop registers one basic sentiment when he thinks about the record industry. "They're a bunch of greedheads," he says. "They've been really fat on what I think of as huge profits and now they're trying to maintain the status quo."

Mr. Bishop is not your typical college-dormitory Internet pirate. A 49-year-old illustrator in San Rafael, Calif., he has steered scrupulously clear of file-sharing software like Napster and KaZaA. But he recently discovered how to play the music provided by other online fans without copying it, and has no compunction about flouting recent efforts to stamp out the practice.



"I'm not doing anything wrong," he insists.

Until recently, music executives have largely failed to acknowledge the millions of individuals, from teenage Eminem fans to Elvis-obsessed baby boomers, who have joined in what amounts to an online rebellion against the industry by some of its most important customers. Hoping to end Internet music piracy by ridding the world of the technologies that make it possible, they have so far focused on legal battles against KaZaA and its many brethren.

But for the first time in the Internet file-sharing wars, record industry executives have in recent weeks started to address music fans directly, both offering carrots and wielding sticks to persuade people to buy their product again. How well they succeed is likely to determine the way music is produced and consumed for years to come.

"The technology has destabilized us, it has hurt us," said Doug Morris, the chief executive of the Universal Music Group, a unit of Vivendi Universal and the largest of the five major record companies. "But now it's going to take us to new heights."

The industry is pursuing lawsuits against music pirates but is also offering new ways to legally listen to and buy music online through deals like a recent alliance with Apple Computer.

That prospect may be difficult to achieve. Forty-three million Americans — half of those who connected to the Internet — used file-sharing software last month that allows people to copy music without paying for it, according to a survey by the NPD Group, a market research firm. The file-sharing program KaZaA, which rose in popularity after the record industry won its lawsuit against Napster, has been downloaded more than 270 million times, more than any other free program available on CNet's Download.com site.

The migration of music from shiny disks to the online arena has personalized debates about intellectual property rights once reserved for lawyers, turning passive consumers into political activists in increasingly large numbers. Having discovered the virtues of the new online form, many people are demanding the freedom to sample, trade and make available music in ways that were never before possible.

Some of those ways, like making unauthorized copies of hundreds of copyrighted songs without paying for them, are clearly not legal. Others may be the subject of a negotiation that the music industry is beginning to accept it may have to enter into.

"I have rights to listen to my music the way I want to," said William Raleigh, 33, a marketing manager in Los Angeles who says he never buys music produced by the major record labels, preferring to reserve his acquisitions for independent bands that sell CD's through the Web site CD Baby. "I'm not a criminal if I want to share it with some friends, and I'm opposed to the technology that tries to restrict my rights as a consumer."

Paul Vidich, an executive vice president with the Warner Music Group, a unit of AOL Time Warner, said that the degree to which people could share their music was a key point in the company's negotiations with Apple. They explored what the equivalent of playing music in a living room full of friends would be in the online world. Would it be O.K. for students in a dormitory room to share music with the room next door? With the whole dormitory?

They settled for now, Mr. Vidich said, on agreeing to allow the ability to share with people under one roof, or a radius of about 150 feet.

"What is personal use, where does it stop, where does pirated use begin?" Mr. Vidich said. "That is one of the questions that this whole Internet phenomenon has opened up and we all need to address it."

In response to a prolonged sales slump and a federal court decision in April that found the companies that distribute the file-sharing programs Morpheus and Grokster were not violating copyright law, record executives now say they are girding themselves for a new era.


They say they are responding more actively to legitimate consumer demands and are willing to brave the backlash that may come from pursuing legal action against individuals for making unauthorized copies of music in their homes.

They are also hoping that relinquishing some control over their product may also ultimately boost their profits. After all, Hollywood movie studios once battled the VCR as a threat to theater attendance — only to see that technology spawn the hugely successful home video business.



"We've turned the corner," said Andrew Lack, the chief executive of Sony Music Entertainment. "When there weren't legal, good places to go buy music online the activity was cool, but once we get these services up, it's going to change people's behavior."

With the unveiling of the Apple music service in April, the major record firms have overcome much of their fear of cannibalizing compact disc sales with cheaper, easily copied digital downloads. They licensed their catalogs to Apple on more liberal terms than they had in the past, letting the new Apple music service sell songs for 99 cents. In just over a month, the service has sold more than 3 million tracks, far exceeding the record industry's expectations.

Bill Collage, a Sag Harbor, N.Y.-based screenwriter who has regularly used file-swapping software, said he has spent $60 at the Apple store since it opened on April 28.

"It's solved all my problems," Mr. Collage said. "It's so fast, and there's no guilt, no recriminations."

Last month, Sony and Universal sold their jointly owned online music subscription service, Pressplay, to Roxio, the company that purchased Napster's name and assets after it filed for bankruptcy. The Pressplay service, in which the two record labels retain a stake, is expected to be reintroduced soon bearing the Napster name — an acknowledgment by Sony and Universal that the service would be easier to sell to consumers under the brand that most epitomizes file-sharing.

And RealNetworks announced last month that its subsidiary Listen.com was dropping the price it charges subscribers to its Rhapsody online service to buy songs online to 79 cents.

These efforts to make purchasing music online more consumer friendly are being deployed even as the industry takes more aggressive legal action against online piracy.

After settling lawsuits against four college students accused of running "mini-Napsters" on their college campuses last month, the record industry's trade association is preparing to file lawsuits solely against individuals who have used software programs to let others copy music files from their personal computers.

"We have the right to control the property we own the way we want to," said David Munns, the chief executive of EMI Music North America. "To be successful I have to listen to what the consumer is telling me, but if that means me going broke that's not the answer. You've got to do what you've got to do."

The industry's position was bolstered by a ruling last week by a federal appeals court that forced Verizon Communications, a major Internet service provider, to hand over the names of four individuals whom the record industry suspects of illegally trading music using KaZaA.

The first lawsuits are likely to be filed this summer. "We're going to continue to address this with harsher and harsher means," said Mr. Morris of Universal. "If people are criminals I'm not concerned about alienating them."

As the file-sharing era has unfolded, Mr. Morris and other top record executives have largely remained silent, letting the leaders of its trade association, the Recording Industry of Association of America, speak out against piracy and field the fury of many music fans. (The association's Web site has become a favorite target of computer hackers).

Several executives said they have been spurred to take a more public role now because of persistent misperceptions about the costs of their business. Consumers think CD's are too expensive, they say, only because they don't realize how much the labels spend developing and promoting new artists, the vast majority of whom never sell enough to make back the investment.

Those costs have grown as radio stations have consolidated and stores like Wal-Mart, with less shelf space for CD's, are replacing stand-alone record stores as the main retail outlet for music, record executives say. Part of the industry's new strategy is to create a consumer education campaign on music industry economics.


Meanwhile, the industry's critics are calling for a more radical restructuring of the way music is distributed online. The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a San Francisco-based civil liberties group, is organizing a campaign to rally students to push Congress to create alternative approaches that would legalize some forms of file-sharing.

One would require record companies to license their entire catalogs to anyone who wants them for a fee set by the government. Another approach would levy a tax on Internet service providers and, perhaps, other related businesses to create a fund that would be used to compensate copyright holders based on a measure of how frequently individual songs are downloaded. For consumers, the tax would be less noticeable than directly charging for the music.

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"Right now copyright law is broken and the music industry is bullying everybody into being scared," said Shari Steele, the foundation's executive director. "There are new ways of distributing music that don't require the record companies to be a part of it."

For its campaign, the group has paid for an advertisement, to be published in Rolling Stone and other publications next month, showing five people standing in a lineup with headphones on. "Tired of being treated like a criminal for sharing music online?" it reads. "Filesharing is music to our ears."

Roger Ames, the chief executive of Warner Music Group, said any plan that handed control of the industry's licensing to the government would simply shrink its revenues and prevent it from financing artist careers. As for the taxation idea: "It sounds like communism," Mr. Ames added.

However unlikely Congress may be to order the music industry to act differently, some analysts and many music fans argue that the record labels need to do more to wean people away from file-sharing services. For better or worse, the Internet file-trading bonanza of recent years has given lovers of popular music a taste of what it means to have near-instant access to almost anything created by their favorite performers for free, to use their personal computers as listening stations, to burn their own music mixes on CD's and e-mail songs to their friends.

"There's a lifestyle issue about how people want to use music that has been missed," said Russ Crupnick, vice president of the music division of NPD. "The industry needs to reconnect with consumers and understand what they are seeing here besides the free part."

V (1411), Sunday, 8 June 2003 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...
Spencer, that air analogy is totally horrible.

I rarely pat myself on the back, but I'm rather proud of it. And it's not so much the air, but the branding of it.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

seven months pass...
So it looks like this is available in the UK... and maybe elsewhere in Europe? has this been covered before? It's not as though I'll actually use it of course.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 11:04 (twenty-one years ago)


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