Thoughts on the DVD single... C/D etc.

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So an article in the Times this week (today, perhaps) points to an optimistic recording industry pointing to the DVD single as an answer to the 45, the cassingle and the long-lost CD single.

So is it? Surely a 2-video DVD loaded with BONUS EXTRAS LIKE PICTURES AND SHIT is an interesting buy for 7-10 USD? Right? But will the impact this new new new concept be undermined by lack of good videos?

Will we see a video directed by, say, Spike Jonze in this format? Or will we be stuck (!) with Avril (!!) videos and shit?

Discuss, plz.

jm (jtm), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

OH MY GOD ANSWER MY QUESTION.

jm (jtm), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

The only CD singles I paid full price for are the ones including the video. So it might just work...

Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 28 April 2003 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Were they the DVDs tho, or the Enhanced CDs?

jm (jtm), Monday, 28 April 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I bought enhanced CD singles for the video because I had (and have) no MTV. Even when they were really lame, ie Third Eye Blind's "Jumper". But DVD single's I've seen, ie Bjork, have been around $10. Ouch - I could just buy a used album (or two!) for that price. And I got a Portishead DVD w/a concert and all their videos for $15. So. If all bands did that, I would be a lot poorer...I am a sucker for video collection things.

Fivvy (Fivvy), Monday, 28 April 2003 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

DVD singles are just another way for the industry to boost the price of the media yet again, and make us pay even more for something that shouldn't cost anywhere near that much. The idea of paying $10 for two songs and a video that can't even be played on your good ol' CD player is bad enough, but it's a fucking insult when the industry is virtually giving away the DVD singles when you buy the album now, and all you have to do is pay an additional, what, $5 for the whole shebang?

Seriously, what the industry really needs right now is to come up with some sort of digital music system where Jimmy Musiclover can go into the "record store", go to a kiosk and upload two or three tracks for a few dollars, straight to their iPod or Nomad, or to a flash card. Free preview with the headphones, download on demand. Alternately, bring back the CD-3 for singles and start making them more widely available again, just like cassingles used to be, or 7-inch singles before that, and charge a reasonable amount for them...$5 at most, for 2 or 3 songs.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 28 April 2003 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm in two minds about DVD singles. it is a total waste of the format (and your money really) to just release it as a single with just one video. on the other hand, its a neat way to acquire great videos (of course most music vids are good nowadays in the same way that most computer games have amazing graphics and most films have great special fx) that are often great works of art in their own right.

what i'd really really like to see is more DVD compilations - i mean how many music videos can you fit on one double-sided/layered DVD? A LOT. so more anthologies, more greatest hits, more albums on DVD - and really i'm not sure the DVD is going to save the single format itself as people should realise its not a practical enough use of the medium considering the capacity factor. also, in reality, how often do people watch their DVD singles? once and thats it i suspect (having downloaded or extracted the audio tracks or whatever). still i would love to be able to order DVDs of music videos that i chose/compiled myself via some website. i imagine obtaining licenses for DVD music vid compilations is a bit trickier than with just audio compilations (because the videos have their own rights issues??) but surely its feasible.

stevem (blueski), Monday, 28 April 2003 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I find the idea of DVD singles utterly pointless at the moment. Until the audio can be played on something like a normal CD player then I'm not interested - I don't care enough for music videos for that to be a drawcard, and live footage interests me not.

Sean I very much agree with your idea of the 3" cd being used for singles. It's cute, disposable in the same way that the 7" and cassingle always were (and at the same time weren't) and whatever savings the rec co's make on packaging can go towards keeping the FUCKING PRICE DOWN

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 28 April 2003 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Would you pay then, for something like, "Now That's What I Call Videos vol. 1" for 10 bucks? Or would it just depend on who/ what's available?

jm (jtm), Monday, 28 April 2003 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously, what the industry really needs right now is to come up with some sort of digital music system...

What the industry needs right now is albums about which high school kids say to each other "holy fuck! every fucking song on this CD is good! I can't fucking believe it!" that come in creatively designed packages with bitchin' cover art and maybe some stickers or nifty drop-out cards printed on nice stock. Something, anything besides the "here's the single you've heard, the two you're gonna hear, ten unfunny 'sketches' and loads of filler" & variants. Pop-up cover art. Attempts to make genre-defining records instead of placekeepers. This won't happen, by the way.

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 28 April 2003 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Would you pay then, for something like, "Now That's What I Call Videos vol. 1" for 10 bucks? Or would it just depend on who/ what's available?

personally yes i would, depending on the tracklisting. what i'm banking on is a conscious decision by hardware manufacturers to say 'ok, sell music is being sold to people in the DVD format with the video being the bonus, or vice versa' and introduce DVD players that are more like computer hard drives connected to your TV that basically just allow you to store a large number of DVD contents on the hard drive which you can then play and watch on the TV in the same way you queue digital music up on your PC's media player. of course the scope for that is huge as it includes TV and films and ANYTHING viewable on TV from a DVD (including games and applications). the ideal would be a TIVO style box with a DVD player combined. i'm sure this is already happening but its unlikely to take off for a couple more years yet, due to price and lack of REAL widespread interest.

stevem (blueski), Monday, 28 April 2003 23:35 (twenty-two years ago)

the TV as PC/div-X jukebox concept becomes even more attractive with the added prospect of being able to download broadcast-quality material (bandwidth alert!) via said device, no doubt via subscription service or pay-per-view system which would very probably be more easily manageable and practical than the current 'watching crap quality downloaded video or good quality but often incompatible DVD on small PC monitor' method.

stevem (blueski), Monday, 28 April 2003 23:40 (twenty-two years ago)

J0hn in OTM shockah!

The "industry" is never gonna solve their problems by endlessly re-tooling technology. They have a content problem, not a product-delivery problem. The whole "downloadin is killing the industry" is as much of a red herring as "home taping is killing the industry".

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 28 April 2003 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Simple but pretty realistic example:

Album X by band Y on big indie label Z, based on the sales of previous albums of comparable quality/appeal expected to sell 100.000 copies @ $11 wholesale.

Variable costs: $5 a disc (manufacturing, royalties, distribution)
Fixed costs/"album budget": $500.000 (recording the album, shooting a video, advertise, send promos to journos, bribe radio stations etc)

Sell 100.000 copies, make $100.000 net profit
Sell 90.000 copies, make $40.000 net profit
Sell 80.000 copies, lose $20.000

Multiply these figures by 10 to get a typical "major label" case. On its own, selling "new" CDs is simply a shitty business - you need to make your money elsewhere. DVD's, publishing & licensing, advertising,etc etc. Which is pretty much where the industry makes its money nowadays.

One way out of this is what John is proposing: increase the quality of your music, so what once appealed to 100.000 people will now appeal to 120.000 people, 100.000 of whom will buy the album. This implies that if trends persist and more and more people will be downloading/pirating albums every year, music as a whole must become objectively better every year to keep up. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but that's a bit of an utopian thought.

Siegbran (eofor), Thursday, 1 May 2003 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

what i'd really really like to see is more DVD compilations

My friend gets this promo thing called "The Cornerstone Player" every month, with tons of "indie" videos on a DVD and songs on a CD, it's sooo cool

Sam J. (samjeff), Thursday, 1 May 2003 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Agreed that the content in general is a problem; there seems to be less and less reliance these days on album artists and more emphasis on the quick single fix. Thus, John's right, the albums will be mostly padded out with crap designed to give what should be a single the appearance of being an album. That's not to say that this hasn't happened before: the "singles" artist is the way the industry started after all. The problem is that these "singles" have now been padded out to ten songs, only 2 or 3 of which have had real thought put into them, it seems. The major labels don't seem to be interested in an artist who actually thinks in terms of albums instead of singles, so they either get short shrift when it comes to promotion, or they don't even get signed at all.

That's why they need to change the delivery system; talking about "improving" the content is probably beside the point at this point and perhaps a little bit arrogant, because really, who decides what constitutes an improvement? So long as the industry exists as it is right now, with so much administrative overhead, there won't be a lot of thought into doing things that won't make money (ie. long term development of album artists, many of whom will never pan out). If you can minimize packaging and shipping costs by moving to a more compact format, that's certainly a step in the right direction if all you're going to be concentrating on is the singles artist. Getting rid of the aluminum altogether saves even more money. See, I'm more likely to bop into a store with CompactFlash card and spend $2 or $3 on a Missy MP3 than I am to buy the whole album on CD at $20 or whatnot, and I'm not particularly into chart hiphop. Hell, I might even drop $3 on a Nelly single. It's that sort of cheap speculative impulse purchase that is just not happening now; buying these songs now takes at least $5 to get the thing used, probably closer to $10 or $15, so in the end it's just easier for a good majority of people to say "fukkit" and download the thing for free.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 1 May 2003 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

there seems to be less and less reliance these days on album artists and more emphasis on the quick single fix.

Yeah, I really feel sorry for Coldplay and Norah Jones.

Siegbran (eofor), Thursday, 1 May 2003 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not sure what your point is, Siegbran; note I didn't say that there weren't album artists out there....it just seems like they're becoming less the norm.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 1 May 2003 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

OK that's a cheap shot, but I agree that a great way to make money would be to introduce impulse buying, ie a jukebox-like machine in every supermarket where you can d/l the top 40 song of your choice on your flash card/iPod for $0.50 (insert your "In Da Club" joke here).

Siegbran (eofor), Thursday, 1 May 2003 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Exactly; that way the "labels" (a funny thing to call them if the physical labels are being eliminated) would be able to get the most out of both the one-shot single and the album format.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 1 May 2003 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

My point was that I don't really feel that there are that much more single-oriented artists compared, say, 1983 or 1993. I think it's a bit silly to glorify the days when Ace of Base, Peter Andre and 2 Unlimited ruled the charts, for example...and how much of an album artist was Elvis, or his contemporaries?

Siegbran (eofor), Thursday, 1 May 2003 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

True enough, as I said above, there have always been singles artist, but one major difference was that at the points in time you reference, singles were easily available and relatively inexpensive. Now, if a "single" is available at all, it's at least 1/2 to 2/3 the price of the full album.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 1 May 2003 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

(In other words, my gut feeling about the industry is that the record labels are treating the artists and the songs as disposable of-the-moment commodity, but they're not really providing a disposable impulse-style product to the music fan any more...it sometimes seems like they're expecting us to invest more in the artist than they're willing to.)

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 1 May 2003 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not sure if I agree completely...I think it might be because they're too busy trying to establish the artist as a "premium brand", ie something that is NOT cheap but something worth investing a lot in. Maybe also because the majors spend a shitload of money marketing the artists as brands, so they more or less expect people to pay full price too. But people don't want to invest a lot, they want the thrill of cheap throwaway singles. P2P provides that, the industry doesn't.

Siegbran (eofor), Thursday, 1 May 2003 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

...which is more or less your point without the "artist as disposable" idea :) I feel that a lot of the majors are too desperately clinging to proven concepts and artists rather than that they're churning out massive amounts of one hit wonders.

Siegbran (eofor), Thursday, 1 May 2003 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)


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