Who put the homophobia in hip hop?

also, zoe williams is full of shit being rather revisionist.

Homophobia's been in hip hop at least since the Superman as Fairy verse of "Rapper's Delight", which is milder than me calling "3 Feet High and Rising" the first gay rap album.

Yeah, that really bugged me. PE's statements in direct interviews from the late eighties and early nineties -- hating house because it was 'gay,' citing the Koran to justify hatred of homosexuality -- really pissed me off at the time and still do. I actually just dropped a line directly to Williams about that, but also offered to try and research the exact statement if desired. It is quite possible that Williams isn't aware of them, after all.

(A black co-worker assures me that white people invented homosexuality and that blacks would never have engaged in such actions if whites hadn't corrupted them.)

Also, and maybe most important, what Anthony Miccio said.

(This added after reading the article, which was pretty weak.)

I can relate to Axl's way of gradually liking stuff that offends him at first. I've realized that groups that seem BAD I'm more likely to eventually enjoy than boring ones since they are know how to piss me off. Though interestingly, I liked Limp Bizkit ever since "Sour" off their first album. But Devo used to piss me off and I might send them flowers now if I was Axl-rich.

Incidently, Griff's "What Good Is a Bomb" on Revolverlution was one of the best rap-rock tracks from last year. Not that anyone noticed.

is there really a rap Rob Halford, though?

a sufficient amount of time has elapsed that you can and should say in your own words whatever potentially offensive sentiments you were waiting for your golden boy ethan to voice.

find a dick and choke on it.

And anyway, hip hop's vile, so who honestly cares what they rap about? I know I don't.

I want to say something about black culture in Jamaica is not the same as in America or England, and also about how homosexuality is a very different construct in black America compared to white america. But I'm in over my head, and I'll admit it.

I also like how she uses "Niggaz With Attitude" on first reference.

Hmmmmm.....I seem to remember Chuck D. exhorting the line: "Man on Man? I don't know, maybe so -- but from what I know, the PARTS DON'T FIT!"

Followed swiftly by Flav exclaming: "Awwww Shit!"

Is that homophobia? You decide.

That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about Alexis Petridis. Did you know that the music nowadays is seperated in uncultured working class youths who listen to trance, and intelligent cultured middle class art students who listen to Hundred Reasons? Alexis does.

(see also Eldridge Cleaver's homophobic go at him in Soul on Ice)

Oh and, Tone Loc to thread:

"This is the 80s and I'm down with the ladies...I don't mess around with no Oscar Meyer Weiner"

Also, is that Caushun album as bad as I think it is?

MCA on 'Sure Shot', effectively 'apologising' for the mysoginist comments made by Beastie Boys on previous album(s), before their apology to the gay community too i imagine.

* Williams agrees about the importance of contextual homophobia and how it 'generally' comes from a religious perspective

* Related to this, Williams feels that her central argument, which she thinks in retrospect only occurred to her while writing the article and wasn't emphasized as well as it could have been, is that any debates over homophobia are more appropriate in 'religious quarters' and that 'black culture only gets involved where it intersects with fundamentalism.'

* Ultimately, Williams feels much had to be left out because of space and agrees there was glossing over.

So there you go -- her responses raise some potential further questions (and I've passed a couple on to her), but she does not seem unaware of the complexities. I've mentioned the thread and perhaps she might yet appear here.