Albums that are Too Short (NOT Too $hort)

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Nordicskillz complained that the most recent Manitoba album was too short at 37 minutes. I'm not sure I've ever felt this way about an album. If a record I love ends too soon I just want to play it over again.

So what albums really truly would have been better if they'd been longer?

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

None of David Grubbs' solo records are longer than 40 minutes. I'd maybe be okay with this if they were front-to-end solid. But there's usually some filler -- his most recent has Matmos fucking around ambiently for a couple tracks, for no good reason -- and so it sounds even more incomplete.

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

There is a definite psychology to long vs. short albums -- as I said on the Manitoba thread, if an album's too short, it sometimes prevents me from getting totally immersed in it. (One of my favorite records ever is Stereolab's Dots and Loops because I feel like it puts me under its spell, gets under my skin for over an hour.)

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

all those New Yorkers must have more important things to deal with as the Strokes, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, and ARE Weapons "LP"s are short.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Stooges' 1st record was way too short. What's up with fading "No Fun" just as the guitar solo was getting good and gnarly?!!?

John Bullabaugh (John Bullabaugh), Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't know any albums that are too short. The trouble with most albums these days is that they're too LONG.

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

my vote goes to: coltrane and Hartman as it is only 35 minutes, perfectly played, and is Coltrane's only session with a vocalist.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

Most good albums released before 1975 are too short. Less than an hour is okay, but 30 mins. is definitely too short.

buttch (Oops), Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dadaismus is OTM. If an album is under 30 minutes isn't it more like an EP? And I definitely find EPs to be too short sometimes. But I wish their were more brief albums than bloated ones, but people rarely err on the side of brevity these days.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

The La's.

Tijn, Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

I agree that people don't seem to be doing a good enuf job on quality control these days. It's like they feel obligated to fill up the cd's capacity.

buttch (Oops), Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't get it. Isn't it great to discover there are classic songs that AREN'T on the album? Doesn't it make you think the band is godly if you discover they're HIDING great songs? Instead bands feel the need to offer every burp on their album. Yo La Tengo are real criminals about this. Their last three albums were DOUBLE albums on vinyl, not even counting their double CD rarity collection (which was probably better than their new one). Electr-O-Pura might have been a double on vinyl too.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

Most Beach Boys albums of the 60s were lucky if they passed 25 minutes - quality counts not quantity

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 1 May 2003 17:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Gop Ist Minee - XBXRX

maria b (maria b), Thursday, 1 May 2003 19:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've gotta think that it depends on the album. If it's an album of three-minute pop songs, like the Beach Boys, a half hour can be perfectly good enough. But if you're going for something more soundscapey and epic (but still with discrete songs), then you might be better served by something longer, so that the mood properly sets in. But then I like all those long Yo La Tengo records.

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 1 May 2003 20:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Fast music: 35 minutes max
Slow music: 2CD's, please

Siegbran (eofor), Thursday, 1 May 2003 20:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

Old Pazz and Jop rules: Something is an EP if it has less than 20 minutes of music but at least three songs. Over 25 minutes is an album. In between 20 and 25, it's up to you. (A lot of early hardcore punk "albums" by Angry Samaons, Circle Jerks, Minutemen, etc. were actually technically EPs by this definition. But now, lots of things that people "call" EPs are albums and then some. A couple years ago, Underworld had something around 60 minutes they were calling an EP! And by the way, *GNR Lies* is not an EP, no matter what anybody says --- One SIDE of it was an EP once, though.) Personally, I can't think of ANY albums that are too short. I can think of hundreds that are way too long. Hip-hop albums should NEVER be longer than 40 minutes. Anything beyond that is a chore to listen to almost by definiton. (And yeah, slow stuff you go to sleep to might be fine if it's a little longer, though it's not like you're gonna hear it all anyway.) Box sets are COMPLETELY ridiculous, but don't even get me started, ok?

chuck, Thursday, 1 May 2003 20:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Most CDs are too long!
One thing I hate about CDs is that due to their extended length, too many artists are putting every piece of crap they record out there for public consumption. Bands need to be way more selective, like the old days.
I found it refreshing that the Strokes limited their CD to a half hour or so. Of course, now I realize it was probably more to do with a lack of songs. The fact that such a young band is taking so long to put out their sophomore effort has me worried.

Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Thursday, 1 May 2003 21:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Now I admit that I sometimes feel that CDs are indeed getting too long, but when you stop and think about it, isn't it true that as long as you know how to program your CD player, you should never need to complain about CDs being too long? I mean why not just program the CD player to play your favorite songs in the order that you want to hear them? When you look at it that way, it actually makes good sense for artists to NOT be too self-selective, but rather just to put everything out there, and let the fans decide what they want to hear. Because after all, the songs that the artist thinks are the cream of the crop may not be the ones that you would like, and they may end up leaving something off that you would have really enjoyed.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 1 May 2003 21:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

But who has TIME to program CD players every time you put a CD in? (Or, um, even to learn how?) Isn't that doing the artists' work FOR them? I'm too lazy for that shit -- and anyway, how do you remember every time what your favorite songs on a particular CD are? Seems like a lot of work. Plus, part of listening to a good album IS listening to the stuff that didn't seem so great last time you heard it -- maybe it'll change your mind this time. I dunno; I'm an old fogey I guess. Actual editing worked fine for me, and like somebody said above, if you really liked an artist a lot, hunting around for non-LP B-sides was FUN. (Plus, I get 100 CDs in the mail every week. Which admittedly has something to do with how I feel about this stuff, at least for now. I mean, one of these days I might actually download a song off the Internet, too! Who knows?)

chuck, Thursday, 1 May 2003 21:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Fast music: 35 minutes max
Slow music: 2CD's, please

I agree. I can only digest so many 2-3 minute songs in one sitting, and if you tend towards looooong songs I'm much more likely to make it through an album if you chop it in half.

Catherine (Catherine), Thursday, 1 May 2003 21:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

Gesundheit, maria.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 1 May 2003 21:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

Plus, I get 100 CDs in the mail every week.
Really, how much did that cost? Are they good CDs? I once joined an album club, and they sent me shit like The Mortal Kombat soundtrack (yes, I'll admit that the techno song does rock, but c'mon.)

David Allen, Thursday, 1 May 2003 21:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

>>>Plus, I get 100 CDs in the mail every week.
Really, how much did that cost? Are they good CDs?<<

1. Nothing; they're free.
2. Some of them are:

albums i kinda like so far this year, alphabetized

(but even the vast majority of THOSE ones are too long.)

chuck, Thursday, 1 May 2003 22:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ahhh, to be a music critic ....

Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Thursday, 1 May 2003 22:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

Weinerschnizel.

maria b (maria b), Friday, 2 May 2003 00:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

But who has TIME to program CD players every time you put a CD in? (Or, um, even to learn how?)

I agree that this is currently harder than it should be. I see a couple of possible solutions:

(1) If you have a CD burner, then order the playlist however you would like, and then burn a copy of just the songs you like. Play this instead of the original CD.

(2) Someone should really invent a CD player that remembers what your favorite songs are on each CD. This shouldn't be too hard. Somehow your computer is able to download the title and songlist when you pop a music CD in it, so it shouldn't be that difficult to have a CD player that would remember your favorite songs.

Isn't that doing the artists' work FOR them?

If I was going to get all old-school-ILM on your ass, I would say that comment reeks of rockism ;-) The whole concept of the album as the irreducible unit of artistic achievement is a fairly recent development in the history of music, which is more of an artifact of evolving music playback technologies than anything essential to the act of listening. Witness the new Apple I-Tunes thingy. We are entering a brave new world of music commodification - a world in which the Song is triumphant, the Album is put out to pasture, and selection of song order is no longer considered part of the artist's job.

o. nate (onate), Friday, 2 May 2003 00:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

I agree that many CDs are too long.

Too short: Histoire de Melody Nelson

Sean (Sean), Friday, 2 May 2003 02:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

XBXRX's CAREER was too short, but they got back together. "Gop Ist Minee" could be way longer, but really it's perfect to play a few times in a row or something. I'd be into the "brave new world" of SONGS beating ALBUMS if most people weren't such idiots, I hate the thought of the audience/consumers having that much of a role. Too bad for me!

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 2 May 2003 03:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

i was gonna say le shok's "we are electrocution" - at fourteen songs in thirteen minutes - is too short on 12" vinyl cuz you have to get up to flip the record every seven minutes but i guess i do that all day with 45s anyway.

what are these cee-dee's you kids are talking about?

brian badword (badwords), Friday, 2 May 2003 03:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

I guess if I ever manage to get the Erase Errata Lp that'll be too short too, it's apparently 20 mins or so

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 2 May 2003 03:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Blueprint 2.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 2 May 2003 03:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

favorite "too-short" Zappa albums -- we're only in it for the money (clocking in at 39:12); lumpy gravy (31:39); burnt weeny sandwich (41:07); over-nite sensation (34:25); apostrophe (31:45); and the grand wazoo (37:03).

Tad (llamasfur), Friday, 2 May 2003 04:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hey Andrew, check out Snowsuit. It's Steve from XBXRX's solo gig inbetween XBXRX things.

maria b (maria b), Friday, 2 May 2003 05:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

Thanks! I will.

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 2 May 2003 05:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

Totally agree on Melody Nelson, and Le Shok.

I think Paris 1919 is WAY too short.

Clay K., Friday, 2 May 2003 05:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Nick Drake's Pink Moon is only around 30 minutes. But I like it that way.

Evan (Evan), Friday, 2 May 2003 06:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

o.nate, I think my cd player does what you describe. You can program in the tracks you like and put it in the memory. Next time you come to play that cd you type in the number of the cd (think it can store 200 or something)and it plays the tracks you chose last time. I've never used the feature but I seem to remember getting a sheet of stickers to number the cds whose tracklistings you had saved. It's a Marantz player.

Agree that most complaints would be of Cds being too long rather than short. Prince's Dirty Mind is only 30 minutes long but is all the more perfect for that. It's one of my fave things about it so although more music of the same quality might seem like a good thing, in reality it would spoil the record.

mms (mms), Friday, 2 May 2003 08:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

45 minutes (there or thereabouts) is the perfect length for an album!

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Friday, 2 May 2003 08:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

Most great 60s albums are too short.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 2 May 2003 09:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

Mogwai "Rock Action", unless you tack the "My Father My King" single on the end.

mei (mei), Friday, 2 May 2003 09:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

The thing with most earlier era albums being shorter than they are now is entirely due to format. You could only fit so much music on each side of an LP, but what with the CD adding on more possible music time, over the course of the CD-era the generally acceptable length for 'albums' has gotten larger; plus the fact that, with the CD able to play all the way through without having to flip it over, this is prob'ly the first era (okay, MAYBE 8-tracks, but could you call that an "era"?) where people have made 'albums' with the understanding that the audience/listener would get to hear it from beginning to end without having to flip it over, and thus it seems many modern 'albums' have more continuity than some older recordings.

The same sorta thing occured earlier in the last century when the LP format switched and allowed artists to record songs more than 3+ minutes long...part of the bebop thing was supposedly about utilizing the new options of vinyl to break from the 3+ minute song format, which was the standard at the time in all styles, country, jazz, etc.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 2 May 2003 12:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yes "Paris 1919" is a bit on the skimpy side - but it's too perfect to change. On a John Cale tip, both "Marble Index" and "Desertshore" are too short too - odd in the case of the former as the two songs added as bonuses to the CD edition are so good you wonder why they were left off the album in the first place, but that's another thread perhaps. Like why did Richard Thompson leave "Poor Will and the Jolly Hangman" off Fairport's "Full House", thus severly diminishing the overall quality and continuity (not to mention length) of the album?

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 2 May 2003 12:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

Next time you come to play that cd you type in the number of the cd (think it can store 200 or something)and it plays the tracks you chose last time

There shouldn't be any need to have to type in a number, since there's a code on each CD that uniquely identifies it (this is how your computer can automatically download the title, songlist, etc. when you pop a music CD in). Also, the 200 CD limit seems rather skimpy. But it sounds like that is an early version of what I was imagining.

o. nate (onate), Friday, 2 May 2003 12:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

It downloads the title, tracklisting etc by using an algorithm that produces a 6 character(?) code from the length of the tracks and the spaces between. It's not simply a code that's encoded on the CD. It then uses the calculated code to query the online (or maybe even local) database.

mms (mms), Friday, 2 May 2003 14:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

Glass Candy - Love Love Love is perfect at around 25 minutes

ss, Friday, 2 May 2003 14:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

>>The whole concept of the album as the irreducible unit of artistic achievement is a fairly recent development in the history of music, which is more of an artifact of evolving music playback technologies than anything essential to the act of listening. Witness the new Apple I-Tunes thingy. We are entering a brave new world of music commodification - a world in which the Song is triumphant, the Album is put out to pasture, and selection of song order is no longer considered part of the artist's job.<<

Well, I always thought that albums were just a bunch of individual songs, anyway; never bought that "concept" horseshit. And actually, some of the best albums have song-order determined by evil record companies anyway. Like, you, know, K-Tel! And I've made mix tapes and listened to the radio and put songs in jukeboxes and bought singles and cheesy sampler compilations and soundtracks for years (and singles have ALWAYS mattered more than albums), so the "brave new world" stuff is just silly dogma instituted by suckers for expensive technology. Which is to say NOTHING HAS CHANGED. But that doesn't mean that sometimes music doesn't come good in half-hour doses where somebody other than me determines what the doses are. And an hour worth of crap is hard to sift through either way; if the album is over, why not just get rid of albums completely? Doubt I'd complain much. Also, I DON'T own a CD burner. Tho maybe I'll get one someday.

chuck, Friday, 2 May 2003 15:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm perfectly happy with paying $15 money for a 30-minute CD, as long as it's good.
Programming a longer CD to play the way I want, or burning my own version of the CD is just plain silly.

Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Friday, 2 May 2003 15:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

>>doesn't come good in half-hour doses <<

I meant doesn't SOUND good in half-hour doses.

And in case I was being completley inchorent, what I'm saying is this: If you need to sort through an hour's worth of stuff to figure out what your favorite songs by Artist X are, how are you gonna get it if albums don't exist anymore? Isn't that sort of a contradiction?(Again, I'm saying it's easier to sort through LESS stuff than MORE -- and this brave new world you're imagining doesn't change that.)

chuck, Friday, 2 May 2003 15:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

how are you gonna get it if albums don't exist anymore?

Individual downloads. One-off offerings. "Hey, here's a new song for this week." "Hey, here's a couple of new songs for this week." There are various possibilities. As for older stuff, just grab a few tracks at a time rather than going for a complete download of the album.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 2 May 2003 15:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

That's all obvious, Ned -- But again, it doesn't explain at all why somebody like O. Nate would want albums to be so long. The options you're suggesting argue for less music at a time, just like I did.

chuck, Friday, 2 May 2003 16:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

inchorent = incoherent. (though it probably was, anyway.)

chuck, Friday, 2 May 2003 16:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ah, right, I hadn't adequately looked back on the thread. As someone who likes albums as they are but figures they're going down the tube as a format, I just like consistency of mood over instantaneous shifts more -- I don't dislike the latter entirely, I should note, but that seems to be where my approach to listening has ended up. If anything, O. Nate is actually more in line with your thought than I am! But all three of us seem to be agreeing that the information is there and can be used accordingly via different listening models, and after that it's all down to preference.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 2 May 2003 16:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

it doesn't explain at all why somebody like O. Nate would want albums to be so long

I can see how it would seem inconsistent that on the one hand I was saying "The Album is dead, long live the Digital Music Revolution" and on the other hand I was saying "Long CDs are good", but I think that there is some common ground there. The point being that if you really think of the unit of music production being the song, then the question becomes, How do you deliver the songs to the listener? We are beginning to see the outlines of a new model of music distribution based on the Internet and digital music formats; however, iTunes notwithstanding, it has still has a ways to go before it rivals the CD for cultural ubiquity. So in the meantime, I was saying, perhaps it makes sense for artists to stuff CDs as full as they can with whatever songs they have available - because anyone with a CD player can always skip the songs they don't like and listen to the ones they do - this doesn't require any exotic technology (although I did describe a couple of different options that would require something other than the standard CD player). I was just wondering whether the reason that maybe we are resistant to this idea of long CDs has less to do with the inconvenience of hitting the skip button and more to do with an aesthetic ideal of the Album as a conceptual unity - with a song selection and ordering that are ordained from on high.

If I sound a bit conflicted about all of this, it's probably because I am. I actually am an Album-fan. I like the sense that the artist has chosen just these songs and ordered them in a certain way to get a certain effect - and I would swear that in many cases this really happens. In many ways, I actually fear this "devolution" from the album to the song, because I feel that in some ways there's more that can be expressed by an album than by a song. That's also why my accusation of "rockism" was tongue-in-cheek, since I am as guilty as anyone of the very prejudices I was decrying.

o. nate (onate), Saturday, 3 May 2003 15:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

sixteen years pass...

22 minutes long exactly.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51VAQwajXHL.jpg

... not that I've even heard the album I just noticed it was 22:00 on wikipedia. While we're at it, I've never seen "Wild in the Streets", why has it never (afaik) been shown on British television?

(includes digression on farting) (Tom D.), Saturday, 1 February 2020 15:06 (four years ago) link


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