I like Fugazi. Should I get albums from Embrace and Rites of Spring?

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Fugazi are one of my favourite bands ever. The way they subvert the rules of punk and turn it into rich, complex and intelligent music is sublime. I'm now searching for its roots, and I do like Minor Threat, high-powered, though a bit unidimensional. Now, are Embrace and Rites of Spring more Fugazi or Minor Threat? And, by the way, are there any bands around that can appeal a Fugazi lover? (I'm not a great emo fan, by the way)

JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Sunday, 4 May 2003 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

embrace, no. mediocre almost-post hardcore ruined by ian's ultra-strident "oh, i HURT" lyrics and delivery. embarassing.

rites of spring, maybe. don't sound much like fugazi, really, but they have moments of brilliance. (and only a few embarassing ones.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 4 May 2003 21:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I do not recommend Embrace or Egghunt, for that matter. Rites of Spring, however, would not be the worst buy in history.

Try Ignitiion, a band fronted by Ian's brother Alec. Their song I know what Anger Means is classic!.

Roman (Roman), Sunday, 4 May 2003 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

DC had a very rich scene in the 80's, not everything was great but very little of it was boring. I know you are not looking for hardcore, but you might give Marginal Man and Grey Matter a lisen.
You have probably heard of Shudder To Think, not my fave, but not a bad band. Government Issue's front man, John Stabb, was in a later group called Weatherhead, that might appeal to you.
Outside of the DC scene, have you ever lisened to Guided By Voices?

Brandon Welch (Brandon Welch), Sunday, 4 May 2003 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Rites of Spring worth the cash. The discography is like $9 thru Dischord. Varies from decent to great

avoid Embrace, which sux, but sounds like fuckin Fun House compared to the godawful Egg Hunt 7".

Re Fugazi - no disrespect to the legend but Ian is the weak link, man.

roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 4 May 2003 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Embrace? The guys who were hyped as the Nu Travis?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 4 May 2003 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

heheh that's the only embrace i've heard too, but i'm guessing from reading this thread that there's another embrace, who are more in the emo style.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 4 May 2003 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

call them em(o)brace to prevent further confusion, please.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 4 May 2003 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Minor Threat? Anybody?

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 4 May 2003 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

You want Drive Like Jehu, and Faraquet, and Sweep the Leg Johnny, and Die Kreuzen.

Famous Athlete, Sunday, 4 May 2003 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

embrace stravinsky's rites of spring to yer heart!

Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 4 May 2003 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the Egg Hunt single an awful lot, but you shouldn't go to it expecting to be all that much like any of Ian's other bands...

Douglas (Douglas), Sunday, 4 May 2003 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Go Emo. You know you want to.

jm (jtm), Monday, 5 May 2003 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I never could get into Rites of Spring and never heard the Embrace album.

Jawbox's albums "Novelty" and "For Your Own Special Sweetheart" are both pretty good and in a similar style. I actually think "Sweetheart..." is their best album, but many people began to hate them because they left Dischord. They were quite a good live band.

Unwound is another band that you might like, but their records are spotty and some can't stand the vocals. They are an aquired taste, but because of that you can often find their records used.

Drive Like Jehu's "Yank Crime" is a good recommendation.

earlnash, Monday, 5 May 2003 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

you should get over it. Fugazi suck

Savin All My Love 4 u (Savin 4ll my (heart) 4u), Monday, 5 May 2003 01:02 (twenty-two years ago)

No. Get albums from James Brown and Wire...

Pete Scholtes, Monday, 5 May 2003 06:05 (twenty-two years ago)

b-b-but who wants to hear ugly magazine editors make records?

Dave M. (rotten03), Monday, 5 May 2003 06:54 (twenty-two years ago)

(present good-looking suave and debonair magazine editor company excluded, of course)

Dave M. (rotten03), Monday, 5 May 2003 06:54 (twenty-two years ago)

If you wanna know Dischord buy their 3 cd box set.it's good!

but embrace and rites of spring were not the best bands of the label:try shudder to think's "funeral at the movies",it's a wonderful record and contains "red house",their best song.

about fugazi:after all,their REAL influences are more gang of 4,wire,sonic youth and dub.and probably you just heard them...

giulio olivieri, Monday, 5 May 2003 06:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Embrace put out one album. Sure, at points it's embarassingly emotive, but many say it's one of THE albums to kick off the whole emo extravagana. So, it might be worth picking it up, own it, know it, just to know it. The material sounds a bit dated compared to most other older Ian projects, but if you're that big of a Fugazi fan you would probably enjoy it, or at least find it interesting to hear what came just before Fugazi.

Hucklebuck, Monday, 5 May 2003 07:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Ok, at the moment, I have in my virtual shopping trolley:

Rites of Spring - s/t (discography)
Shudder To Think - Funeral At The Movies
Drive Like Jehu - Yank Crime
Gang of Four - Entertainment!

I will try to hear Embrace first, just to see if it is THAT awful...
I love Unwound (at least the two albums I own, "Challenge..." and "Leaves...").
Guided by Voices is a tad too undeveloped, too "work in progress" for my taste (at least the albums I heard, "Bee Thousand" and "Alien Lanes") but it is nice.
Jawbox is a bit hard to find around here (Portugal), but that's what the internet is all about, ain't it? What about Bluetip? Is it any good?
Thanx for all your input.

JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Monday, 5 May 2003 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

go for the Rites of Spring disc, as well as the One Last Wish disc(3/4 of the same band, only a year later). It's worth it for "Three Unkind Silences" alone.

Kingfish, Monday, 5 May 2003 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

get happy go licky.

j fail (cenotaph), Monday, 5 May 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

embrace are worse than the english pop band embrace. ignition do not rock. rites of spring sounded weedy. get some shellac & led zep & black sabbath & rapeman & jesus lizard & the meters & the first tortoise album & storm and stress's 2nd cd & deerhoof & slint & gang of four's first album & the laddio bolocko 2cd and most importantly THE MINUTEMEN's entire back catalogue (apart from "3 way tie for last" which was shitty).

bob snoom, Monday, 5 May 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

get happy go licky

Initially I read this as a command missing the comma after happy.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 5 May 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

lol... By the way, that's the "Happy Go Licky" album by Soulside (pre-GvsB), right?

JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Monday, 5 May 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Hoover's "The Lurid Transversal of Route 7." A genius Dischord album.

Brandon Gentry (Brandon Gentry), Monday, 5 May 2003 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Also: Does anyone else find this annoying: HarDCore? The form wasn't invented in DC, after all. Right?

Brandon Gentry (Brandon Gentry), Monday, 5 May 2003 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you had to be there during Revolution Summer to truly appreciate Rites of Spring and Embrace. I can fully imagine both of them being incredible live bands, but ROS go right over my head, and Embrace features Ian at his very preachiest.

mike a (mike a), Monday, 5 May 2003 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Revolution Summer .... also known as the summer DC went totally gay.

DuPont Circler, Monday, 5 May 2003 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

By the way, that's the "Happy Go Licky" album by Soulside (pre-GvsB), right?

Happy Go Licky is a post-Rites of Spring DC band. The (brilliant) Soulside album is called Soon Come Happy.

I second the recommendation for Hoover's Lurid Traversal of Route 7, which is where Dischord really met the early-nineties concept of emocore--screaming breakdowns, harsh guitars, atmospheric grooves and total angst.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Lungfish? Easily the most consistent band on Dischord--nearly all of their albums are fabulous. Get Rainbows From Atoms or Pass & Stow.

I'd say no to Embrace; it's an ok album but some of the lyrics are downright embarassing, and the second side wears pretty thin. Download the songs "Dance of Days" and "Building" and you'll get the idea of what the good stuff sounds like.

Go for Rites of Spring, definitely.

Ian Johnson, Monday, 5 May 2003 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I've only heard "Money" by Embrace (off the Dischord box), and while both his verse rant and the way he says it is kinda clunky in a funny way, I find the song pretty endearing and catchy. I'm rather curious about these guys themselves. They definitely sound like they could be too much for some people (evidently), but hey...sometimes "too much" makes it noteworthy.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 5 May 2003 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I definitely liked it a lot more than RoS's "Dig Deep" which is interminable. Best Guy song on the box was One Last Wish's "This Time," which sounded like a Smiths cover.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 5 May 2003 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, definitely get Rites of Spring. And Embrace is not nearly as bad as some of the above posts have led you to believe. Also, it might be worth noting that Dischord has been putting out some great stuff these last few months: Black Eyes are certainly as good as The Rapture (dancey post-punk), the newest El Guapo album is incredible, and the last Q and Not U record -- often unfairly grouped with all the other post-punk acts -- has some of the coolest production I've heard in a long time, plus great songs. I think if you're a fan of Dischord's past, you'll like this stuff, and it's still cheap enough to warrant the risk.

Ben Boyer, Monday, 5 May 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Ben -- the Black Eyes LP is worth getting, then? I've got their self-titled 7" and it's good indeed. I saw them play at a friend's house in Providence with Mindflayer and some lesser-known local bands, and they were very.. intense. The many percussionists are what makes the band tick. A similar percussion-oriented band is Brooklyn's Big A Little A; they have three drummers and a guy who makes noise and drones with electronics. They're pretty cool.

But I digress. Is the Black Eyes album that similar to the Rapture? I know BE has an ex-Rapture member, but their sound seems a lot punkier and less dancey, to me. But again, I've only heard the 7" and seen them live.

I don't think I quite "get" the El Guapo album, also. I've seen them live a few times and enjoyed it, but when I got Super/System it kind of bored the crap out of me. Maybe I ought to listen to that one again--what about it do you like?

Ian Johnson, Monday, 5 May 2003 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

listen to bob snoom. start w/rapeman.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 5 May 2003 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Black Eyes = Rapture confuses me, but I haven't listened to the new Black Eyes enuf (got it this weekend).

Anyway, JP, stay away from Bluetip. Boring. Try Kerosene 454 instead, but I doubt you'll find it. Pony Express Record ist amazing, and Mr. Gentry (hi Brandon!) is OTM in regards to Hoover. Lovely stuff. Buy any Jawbox you can other than the first record. I think they're DC's best band ever.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 5 May 2003 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Well thank you ppl... I've got more advice than money I can spend! ;)
But I will get something by Jawbox and that "Soon Come Happy" album (oh, the shame!) from Soulside. And of course, Rites of Spring. By the way, is John "Speedo" Reis from Drive Like Jehu, the same Speedo from Rocket from the Crypt? That guy has Portuguese roots!

JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Monday, 5 May 2003 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

and the same Speedo from Hot Snakes.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 5 May 2003 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

The same Speedo all around -- and in fact the Rocket song "Pigeon Eater" is specifically about his Portuguese background. :-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 5 May 2003 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, man, Kerosene 454... you can still get some of their stuff from Polyvinyl Records (polyvinyl.com, i think.) I have their first LP on Art Monk, and some of it is just amazing. "June" is one of my favorite DC hardcore songs from that period.

Ian Johnson, Tuesday, 6 May 2003 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

The Dischord box set is a pretty good introduction to this whole sound.

Definately check out the Hoover family of bands:

Hoover, Radio Flyer, Regulator Watts, June of 44, The Crownhate Ruin.

Hell, just check out the Slowdime back catalog. (PS - Buy JO44 CDs used; Quarterstick's wholesale prices are INSANE for an indie.)

Jon Williams (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 11:32 (twenty-two years ago)

June of 44 is quite cool indeed, I discovered them from the other family branch, Rodan. I got Anahata and I think it's great, even though everybody telles me that's their worst album. I know a little distributor label which commercializes Touch & Go, Dischord and 1/4stick (among others, Kranky and Constellation too, I think) here in Portugal, and "Rusty" cost me 13 euros, not a bad price at all for a new, indie label CD. I hope that the price is the same for all 1/4stick releases. By the way, what label is Jawbox on?

JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Jawbox was on Dischord then DeSoto I believe....

J. Robbins is a great producer.

Jon Williams (ex machina), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess Black Eyes = Rapture is a stretch, but having seen both bands live, they definitely project a similar vibe. It's not as blatant as the Rapture / Moving Units thing, but Black Eyes definitely whip out the staccato chords-and-yelps attack on a number of songs. As for El Guapo, the new album is much, much better than their last few releases. I just like it because I don't think it sounds like anything else out there right now. It definitely has a Suicide feel, but much more creepy and with strange traditional twists.
Incidentally, I just picked up the Antelope s/t e.p., which shares members with El Guapo, and is pretty fun.

Ben Boyer, Tuesday, 6 May 2003 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

The last El Guapo record I liked about 19% of, so I'm wary of nabbing another...

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

im quite fond of the embrace record actually. was one of my faves for years. maybe if i just heard it now i would scoff. that BUilding tune was quite inspiring for a number of years. hahah

chris gravell, Tuesday, 6 May 2003 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

P A I L H E A D

autovac (autovac), Wednesday, 7 May 2003 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, yeah... and I don't think anyone's mentioned Skewbald / Grand Union yet... another Ian side project...

Ben Boyer, Wednesday, 7 May 2003 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

since drive like jehu garnered a mention up top, there's another san diego band that's worth bringing up, particularly in any discussion of post-hardcore: heroin. heroin was the band from which, whether for good or ill, a million screamo bands blossomed. and they're very much the trunk of a certain san diego family tree. members went on to antioch arrow, who started what now seems like a very quaint row by using keyboards on their "in love with jetts" lp, and i think black heart procession, though perhaps not in b.h.p.'s current incarnation. if anyone else knows for sure (i'm sure somebody does) please jump in.

new jersey's gern blandsten label also put out a load of great post-hardcore releases, including merel, iconoclast and chisel, who might appeal most to a fugazi fan. chisel, of course, was fronted by ted leo.

tim annett (cobblehilliamsburg), Friday, 9 May 2003 10:46 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...
nobody no wants no to no recommend FAITH no more? It's Ian's brother Alec MacKaye's band, one of the first to put an expressive face on the locomotive of hardcore.

Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Thursday, 27 May 2004 03:43 (twenty-one years ago)

four weeks pass...
sheesh, all this takes me back a ways to all the d.c. shows i saw. the best records i.e. ones i wouldn't mind hearing today are by Soulside, Ignition and Swiz (bet nobody here knows who they are. pity cuz they were brutal.)

sherm, Friday, 25 June 2004 06:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Swiz records got reissued on Jade Tree ---> Swiz sucked. Bluetip were good though.

adam (adam), Friday, 25 June 2004 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Bluetip was technically good, but kinda generic

People love Gravity and Ebullition! (ex machina), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

are you people insane?
both the embrace and the rites of spring records are two of my favorite albums. i actually find the embrace album to sound less dated than most post-hc dischord releases and honestly i think its better than anything fugazi ever did.

greg, Friday, 25 June 2004 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I just borrowed these albums from my neighor last week. Neither are as crucial as the best Fugazi but definitely worthwhile for fans of MacKaye and Picciotto.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 25 June 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

The Rites of Spring record is certainly much better than any of the Fugazi records. Embrace is excellent also--really Dischord ends up maybe being my favorite label ever. The Dance of Days book followed by the 20 Years of Dischord box reminded me how good a lot of it was (not all of it--you still suck, Crownhate Ruin! And all those bands that were part of the slow fast soft loud June of 44 mid 90s thing. They suck too)

adam (adam), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

i can't for the life of me understand why people like that embrace record

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it's cute.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I like when emotions I've felt are blown up to absurd proportions. See Limp Bizkit. See "Money."

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah i dunno. his singing really bothers me on that.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

actually any time ian "sings" he's skating the thin edge of the blade

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

THE LYRICS ON THE EMBRACE RECORD ARE TOTALLY DIRE.

Ian c=====8 (orion), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

SELF IN DULLLL GENCE IS THE ROO-EL!

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Lyrics pah etc.

adam (adam), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I've compared them before but the more I think about it the more the equation "Ian MacKaye - brain + backwards baseball cap = Fred Durst" makes sense.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

They basically sound the same when they're screaming except Ian never follows it with "are you feelin' me?"

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

eight years pass...

Rites of Spring "Six Song Demo" CD/10" EP + MP3

Rites of Spring were among the most important and beloved bands to emerge from the DC underground music scene in the mid-80s. Formed by Guy Picciotto (vocals/guitar), Mike Fellows (bass), Brendan Canty (drums), and Eddie Janney (guitar) in 1984, the quartet released a self-titled LP and a 7" single before disbanding in 1986. They were central to what came to be known as "Revolution Summer," a period of redefinition and creative burst from the DC scene in 1985. Before that - before they even played a show - the band recorded a six-song demo tape at Inner Ear with Don Zientara and Ian MacKaye.

Though widely bootlegged, this session has never been released and captures Rites of Spring in the band's earliest stages. Once the band started playing out, the songs gained velocity and intensity (see the 7-minute plus version of "End on End" that closes their LP), but many of the elements that defined their music - frenzied energy, sharp melodies, and introspective lyrics - were already very much in place. The release has been mastered from the original tapes and is presented exactly as it was on those cassettes in 1984 complete with the tape collages and assorted audio-graffiti. Members went on to play in Happy Go Licky, Fugazi, Royal Trux, and Silver Jews. Six Song Demo is available on CD and 10" + MP3.

terrell sug (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 22 October 2012 16:45 (thirteen years ago)

Is there really a big demand for this?

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Monday, 22 October 2012 16:51 (thirteen years ago)

I'd like to hear it, but I'd be surprised if it was a big seller.

Colonel Poo, Monday, 22 October 2012 16:59 (thirteen years ago)

Lots of nostalgia for this era in DC right now with two movie docs on the harDCore era in the works, so it will at least sell some copies here

curmudgeon, Monday, 22 October 2012 18:48 (thirteen years ago)

the void thing seemed to get a lot of attention

also i don't think dischord does stuff because they think it's going to sell 500K or something, they probably know what the crowd is pretty well

terrell sug (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 22 October 2012 18:53 (thirteen years ago)

The Void demos were pretty heavily bootlegged across the years so it's really cool Dischord are doing legit reissues of this type of thing IMO.

Colonel Poo, Monday, 22 October 2012 19:42 (thirteen years ago)

four months pass...

One Last Wish is an amazing record!

nostormo, Wednesday, 20 March 2013 20:46 (twelve years ago)

The band that most scratches the Fugazi itch for me without being a soundalike is Nation of Ulysses

space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 March 2013 20:48 (twelve years ago)

eight years pass...

I've always loved the One Last Wish album (and I don't really care for Rites of Spring, or those other related bands). I don't know what it is, the album just rips... the songs are fun, groovy, anthemic, (endearingly) corny, kinda poppy(??)... I guess it's sort of the only album in this style I feel like I need, but it also somehow stands apart of the rest of the crowd. Maybe I just haven't heard enough of the other stuff?

katebishopfan616 (morrisp), Thursday, 9 December 2021 22:12 (four years ago)


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