Desi vs. Bhangra--RFI

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I've been listening to Panjabi Hit Squad on BBC 1xtra. Found plenty of bhangra websites, but they're no more illuminating than the BBC DJs, who use the terms bhangra and desi interchangeably. What's the difference? There obviously is one but beyond desi being the newer term, I can't figure it out.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Monday, 5 May 2003 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I love bacon.

― gage o (gage o), Monday, 5 May 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought Desi was just a term for South Asians whereas Bhangra is a type of music

― D Aziz (esquire1983), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 08:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks, D Aziz. Just heard an MC say this, though more circuitously. Wonder if this means we'll get the X-Clans/P.E.s of bhangra now, as the emergence of identity in bhangra is happening at EXACTLY the same time it happened in hip-hop, i.e. approx. 10 years into the game.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 12:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm working on a piece about this right now Sasha, i've parsed all this stuff through numerous conversations with folks and a couple of email conversations with one of the co-producers on the john peel show who's quite involved with all this... desi is a Hindi(?) word meaning Native and here's what Hermeet had to say to me on the topic:

You are totally right about re your definitions on Bhangra and Desi. Desi means Native, people used to use it to say we are desi people meaning although we live in the UK we still retain our Indian identity. Now in terms of music i see the term as meaning Asain music which is prodominately influenced by Panjabi culture.

This stuff's a bit of a minefield, but i reall recommend the PHS album called The Streets (funnily enough!) and an album called Rhythm Dhol Bass by RDB if you're feeling this stuff...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 13:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Brilliant--thanks, Dave.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I have quite a bit more gubbins that might be of use and am actually going to be in the studio with PHS next week or the week after to do an interview/get photographs so am happy to share info, obv nice to get quoted if you do, but anything else you need, just drop me a mail off-list and i'm happy to help - you got the address - funnily enoug was only when i started to research this piece that i realised quite how much i had to learn...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Wonder if this means we'll get the X-Clans/P.E.s of bhangra now

Weren't both Fun-Da-Mental and Asian Dub Foundation trying to be this sort of thing? Except I guess the first would call itself hip-hop and the second dub but both using plenty of influences from bhangra, etc....hrm. Someone who knows more than me on these points to thread!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 13:33 (twenty-two years ago)

FDM and ADF are doing it, yes, but I'm thinking, vaguely and not in control of the facts, of a more fiercely desi/panjabi-identified outfit that subdues the known elements (techno, dub, rock, etc.) and avoids singing in English, etc. There seems to be a moment hitting now, with Panjabi MC, the radio shows, etc.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, got it. Well hey, bring it on if it sounds great! :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 13:39 (twenty-two years ago)

a lot of the stuff on the PHS album, and the RDB ones for that matter, are subtitled "desi mix". on these tracks, the influences of dance/urban music can be heard, but its much subdued... more in the clarity of production, rhythm sequencing, polish etc... the sounds and instrumentation is more or less traditional and something in and of itself rather than an Asian extension of already extant British/US genres... this is what i'm finding most interesting, rather than the 2step garage, hip hop, D&B fusions etc... it's also worth bearing in mind that Get UR Freak On was more or less entirely bhangra!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Nah -- it was hip hop getting bhangra right, but there were oodles of differences with bhangra -- i mean it was no more bhangra than Roll Out was Dancehall.

Virtually no bhangra is a tabla-centric as that track was.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 6 May 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

They were playing the Punjabi Hit Squad album in HMV yesterday and it sounded fantastic - but the price tag was $60 (!!!) so no PHJ for me...

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 7 May 2003 02:29 (twenty-two years ago)

$60!!!! Lets chip in, buy it, then burn the fcker.

― gaz (gaz), Wednesday, 7 May 2003 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

four months pass...

http://www.asiansounds.com/title_details.asp?productcode=1050731

hot damn, i bought this last night and it's bangin.

― vahid (vahid), Saturday, 20 September 2003 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

now if only i can find a copy of "jatt marda" here in the states i'm set.

― vahid (vahid), Saturday, 20 September 2003 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

whats mucho problematic about all this bhangra stuff that no one mentions, i believe, is just this: although we live in the UK we still retain our Indian identity. Now in terms of music i see the term as meaning Asain music which is prodominately influenced by Panjabi culture.

desi certainly ! = punjabi, but all analyses/misundestandings of "bhangra representing indians/indo-culture" will be done thru the lens of a punjabi filter, since bhangra is punjabi....but desi is just, broadly speaking "indian" (and yes, also a hindi word).
the regional identity is almost just as (more? i'm not saying that) defining than the nationalistic one as it involves language, food, religion, etc and yet with the advent of bhangra into mass media, punjabi might be unilaterally confused with desi/indian "culture" if we are not careful about stressing this, i think.
or maybe not and what i said (as a non-punjabi) means nothing, it's just too early to tell

― Vic (Vic), Saturday, 20 September 2003 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

there are several tracks on "Heavy" where E=mc2 (who is basically the RDB MC) uses the line "e equals m c/sing mc" and at first i thought it was a pun on sing-jay, because the hooks and alternate verses are sung bhangra-style and it almost starts to sound like dancehall sing-jay. but then i realized OH HE'S PUNJABI and he's saying "Singh MC".

anyway the identity stuff here strikes me as much more subtle and enfolded than, i dunno, Sadat X or ADF. not better, mind you, just that even though i feel this stuff much more than recent 2-step (still stuck in 99 i guess) i feel just as lost culturally.

― vahid (vahid), Sunday, 21 September 2003 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

also i agree with mr. stelfox that a lot of it is "just" a punjabi spin on 2step (in this case) but SOOO much better than Talvin Singh or Nitin Sawnhey, etc.

check "jatt vigargiya" for a convincing fusion (hate that word!) of dhol w/ grime elements.

― vahid (vahid), Sunday, 21 September 2003 00:48 (twenty-two years ago)

here there be bhangra albums in realplayer:

http://www.bhangraroots.com/

― vahid (vahid), Sunday, 21 September 2003 00:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Has anyone heard that Tigerstyle remix of 'R U Really from the Ends?'? It's grime-bhangra-dancehall-jungle or something and it's amazing.

― Keith McD (Keith McD), Sunday, 21 September 2003 05:25 (twenty-two years ago)

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