indie Soul Power bands

indie bands will generally profess love for artists from different genres (dance, hip-hop, soul), regardless of whether it sounds much like their own music. this is cool and fine, but when they start acting like their own music has been really influenced by this stuff it can be a little baffling/tiresome. it was amusing when the NME had a list of the most influential acts of all time, as voted by artists. Mos Def was in the top 20, and one of the people to vote for him was none other than Chris martin of coldplay. i can only guess that this was an influence on the "spirit" of the music, rather than the "sound".

anyway, i think b. is the correct answer. Often bands will make claims about the influence of less rock-y music, and the results will show absolutely zero evidence of this. i suppose they've become too accustomed to playing a particular sort of music, and any attempt to break away is thwarted by this. embrace were one band who made particularly baffling claims about the artists who had shaped their music, yet everything they did was just standard string-laden balladry (whoops, i forgot that "funky" second album).

i.e the indie band will *try* to incorporate the "Soul influence" or the whatever influence, and will genuinely hear this influence in their own music, but it will be impossible to detect for pretty much everyone else.

mos def is indeed the coldplay of rap.

haha.

obviously the answer is c) lighten up, dude and please cease this pointless and insulting discussion now.

when're you recording with the memphis horns jim?

sooner than you think

(probably the melbourne horns rather than the memphis ones)

(i'm not kidding)

i don't think it's fair to expect a band's sound should overtly reflect every different thing they listen to in order to justify or prove that they're not lying about what they like or are influenced by. i think influence/inspiration (and the final product) tends to be more interesting when it's more nebulous and abstract. fer instance, I don't have to rap on a song in order to cop a bit of vocal phrasing from a rapper that i like, and by appropriating that idea in a different musical context, it becomes more my own, and more interesting simply by virtue of, well, why do the same thing the same way twice? may as well put your own twist on it.

that said, i do see what you mean about soul being a kind of tokenist cred marker. but the fact is that most rock bands, indie or non, that at least have a capable rhythm section have some degree of legit soul/funk influence. i agree that it often comes out in unfortunate or obvious ways, but I try not to get in the habit of disbelieving people who profess to like something or not. noone really needs to be that cynical.

i don't think it's fair to expect a band's sound should overtly reflect every different thing they listen to in order to justify or prove that they're not lying about what they like or are influenced by. i think influence/inspiration (and the final product) tends to be more interesting when it's more nebulous and abstract.

fer instance, I don't have to rap on a song in order to cop a bit of vocal phrasing from a rapper that i like, and by appropriating that idea in a different musical context, it becomes more my own, and more interesting simply by virtue of, well, why do the same thing the same way twice? may as well put your own twist on it.

that said, i do see what you mean about soul being a kind of tokenist cred marker. but the fact is that most rock bands, indie or non, that at least have a capable rhythm section have some degree of legit soul/funk influence. i agree that it often comes out in unfortunate or obvious ways, but I try not to get in the habit of disbelieving people who profess to like something or not. noone really needs to be that cynical.

oops. disregard that last one. or read it really really hard the 2nd time around and see if it made sense. i think i had a good point somewhere in there if you can find it.

Let's not forget when indie bands did try to incorporate their other "influences" and we got this shitty New York disco-punk thing.

Then, the problem there is, it's SO watered down. And this point, bands are inspired by bands that started a year ago.

Again, going back to my almost unhealthy love of Otis Redding, I wish indie bands would take a cue from Soul music and pay attention to their vocals. The whole idea now is, "Man, your voice doesn't matter, Lou Reed couldn't sing, Iggy Pop couldn't sing, it don't fuckin matter!" but some soul singers even couldn't sing by conventional standards, they just put their whole heart into it. Bring it up indies.

you have my total agreement that bad/lazy vocals aren't excusable. this is one of the biggest problems with a big proportion of ostensibly "indie" music and a big big bugbear of mine.

"Then, the problem there is, it's SO watered down. And this point, bands are inspired by bands that started a year ago."

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. in fact, it can be a pretty great thing when bands that are peers and/or exist at the same time are influencing each other with their current work. it does get a little stale with indie bands get too inbred with their sphere of influence and don't even try to do anything unique, though. but really, a lot of these bands are trying to hide/ignore the fact that they're influenced by their peers in interviews; it's much more hip to namecheck or be compared to Suicide or Joy Division than, say, a late 90's band like the Make Up, which goes back to the top of the thread's root idea.

i think this thread is getting close to decoding the heirarchy that a lot of music fans seem to hold in the back of their head, especially on ILM:

black music > white music influenced by black music > plain ol' white music

which really strikes me as the implicit tone of so many of these discussions. and i try to fight it, because it's wrongheaded in so many fundamental ways, but i probably do buy into it on some level.

"i don't think it's fair to expect a band's sound should overtly reflect every different thing they listen to in order to justify or prove that they're not lying about what they like or are influenced by..."

i actually agree completely, even if my above post would appear to suggest the opposite! i was just commenting on the way some indie bands will claim that these influences are evident in their music, but no-one else would be able to pick up on it at all. but no, of course they don't have to sound like everything they listen to. and no, i don't think indie bands *should* incorporate soul influences to be better or anything like that. i think my first two posts were a little misplaced actually, and i apologise.

It's cos people in indie bands can't dance or sing but really really want to.

And because they think 'soul' = writing a ballad.

Nick, you're incorrect on both counts.

I try!

i can see the soul influence in the stone roses debut album, for example, although i don't think it's what this thread wants to deal with...
maybe the pushkings can be a good example of an indie band showing a strong, identifiable influence from soul music.

no need to apologize/retract, kilian, i realized you were playing devil's advocate a little, and you had some good points anyway, i was just using it as a jumpoff for mine.

but anyway yeah, "soul" is really too broad and overused in a really dodgy way. just about everyone wants to give props to Marvin or Otis, but most of the time either lack any real insight into or passion for their work, or take the most surface level qualities (the over-emoting, the blues-based arrangements) and run with 'em. still, i reckon there are plenty of indie bands who do this in a sincere and understated way, and not a Jon Spencer caricature. anyone have any suggestions?

not to be a bore cause I've said it a few times now but I'd say the best of the recent soul-punk bands would be The Dirtbombs, The Deadly Snakes & The Detroit Cobras. The Oblivians' "Play 9 Songs With Mr. Quintron" is kinda ground zero for the more recent stuff. & not so much to my taste, but many rank The Bellrays up there too.

other good good ones that I'd say had a soul influence were Sister Double Happiness, The Saints circa Know Your Product, The Jam & Style Council...

I'll second The Detroit Cobras.

what's their Rough Trade EP like? i haven't got that one yet..

d'oh! I was so busy trying to fit my head around some larger point that I forgot to point out the greatest blue-eyed soul man in indie: Chris Lee. he hits the mark more than pretty much any of the countless falsetto merchants out there right now, and there's a sincerity there that never quite loses its way into earnestness or empty homage. the lyrics get a little iffy here and there (really no moreso than par for, say, the Delfonics, though), but the tunes and the voice make them easy to overlook, nay, embrace. new album dropping in June, don't sleep.

esoj, melbourne horns? that doesn't have anything to do with g*s fr*nklin does it? < /nosey >

oh lord no. some guys from the Disapp0intments and s1mon gr0unds