Julie Burchill on Madonna (The Guardian, May 3rd)

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

....hate Burchill as I do..... her Madonna article from last weekend's Guardian was - ouch - particularly stinging.

And, in parts, painfully true....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,947585,00.html

― russ t, Friday, 9 May 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

that can't be jb - the article doesn't once mention how working class she is and how working class her dead dad was

― zebedee (zebedee), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

as ever she says something that's absolutley spot on, something that sort of sounds like something you might think, but you suspect for different reasons, something that is obvious contrariness and something that is genius although mind bogglingly wrong, and writes so deliciously that you can't help but agree with her for five seconds before thinking "um, hang on a minute". in short her usual genius-savant self - long may she reign.

she doesn't launch a viscious assault on parsons here though, so loses points on the deservingness of target scale

― adam b (adam b), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

My favorite part was the last paragraph.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

as usual?!!!

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

isn't the cw on the guardian's pop culture coverage that it's astoundingly bad?

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

"the rapping skills of Grandmaster Flash"

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - ohmigod I missed that!

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

i've just realised that 'genius-savant' doesn't actually make any sense.

i don't really think jb is anything to do with the guardian's pop culture coverage although when she does veer in that direction she generally takes somethng similar to the standard ilm line.

today's G2 features greil marcus talking about laura logic. every day's G2 features greil marcus talking about laura logic.

― adam b (adam b), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

there's some kind of random greil marcus generating software out there.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

This article is complete crap. Actually, what I should have said is something along the lines of "we all know the aricle is complete crap" because that's the attitude the writer takes. Is this what everyone (or at least everyone in Britain) thinks, absolutely? That Madonna's voice is worse now than when she started out? That "Music" was the worst thing (practically) ever? Etc, etc?? Her stance of "we all know this so what is she thinking" is a false premise.

Is Julie Burchill some kind of respected writer? And can she put her ankles behind her head?

― Sean (Sean), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

"the rapping skills of Grandmaster Flash"

ooh. that is bad, but then again she is completely nuts.

― adam b (adam b), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Burchill a respected writer? Go to any bargain bin and hunt out 'No Exit' - I was given it (by someone I later fellout with big time) for Christmas many years ago. Her books are so badly written it's criminal she ever got anything published.

Unadulterated, trashy shit.

Like this article - and yes, just WHO is she representing when she makes these statements?

― russ t, Friday, 9 May 2003 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

on the other hand, read the sleeve notes to st ettiene's 'too young to die' - among the best couple of paragraphs ever written about pop music

― adam b (adam b), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

"we all know this so..."

is usually the way she reasons.

― mei (mei), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

That said she's usually entertaining and I bought the paper version on Saturday partly because she was in it. Very partly.

― mei (mei), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Seems to me a very good point exaggerated to the point of ridiculousness, with an unflattering (to the author) amount of venom involved. I mean, Jesus, it's just Madonna.

― Lee G (Lee G), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

for the amount of venom used it's not particularly cutting or nasty. there's nothing here that would pass muster on a playground.

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 9 May 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

"just WHO is she representing when she makes these statements?"

herself and her big fat head.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 9 May 2003 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

It should be pointed out to US readers that she writes about Madonna about once every couple of months. I think about three years ago she decided to get really angry about her and announce that Madonna, who she used to think was great, was now the root of everything wrong with the world that could not be blamed on middle class lefties.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 May 2003 16:06 (twenty-two years ago)

what a turd.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 9 May 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

With the crap single come the "exclusive" interviews awarded to selected media monkeys with a track record of genuflection beyond the call of duty. Yet no matter how soft the ride Mrs Ritchie is given, she inevitably ends up saying something gloriously stupid and self-deceiving, such is the level of professional flattery that has cocooned her for 20 years.

If this were true it would be really amazing and kind of cool.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 9 May 2003 16:32 (twenty-two years ago)

After the atrocity that was The Next Best Thing, she famously rated herself a 10 as wife, lover, singer and - gulp - actress; a score with which I'd have no quarrel if it were out of 100, rather than 10.

Aw come on, this part was great!

The level of her bile against Madge seems a bit bizarre and off-putting, though.

― Nicole (Nicole), Friday, 9 May 2003 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe she rates herself a 10/10 as an actress in the company of Edith Massey.. Nevermind... she's still only a 6 next to Edie.

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 9 May 2003 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never read a Laura Logic article by Greil Marcus in the Guardian before today. Once you got past the ho-hum familiarity of GM writing abt a female seventies punkah, I thought it was a welcome respite from the Guardian's usual shitty rockwrite - GREAT pic of Laura and Poly too!

I saw Madonna play live today.

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 9 May 2003 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

and how was it?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 9 May 2003 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

It's Lora Logic (sorry that bothered me since it showed up a couple times).

I love Julie Burchill, and I'm american. Or rather I love what she can do when given proper ammunition. Her book, The Boy Looked At Johnny is so great. THe thing about Burchill I really love is that no matter if you agree or disagree with her she actually has flow and really unique ways of expressing her views. She writes so that the reader, or at least me, can read the damn article with ease. So many writers today have no style or flow and it's a pain to even skim the article.

― Carey (Carey), Friday, 9 May 2003 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

okay, madonna might be shit, but saying she sux more than atomic kitten is just a bit over the top.

― di smith (lucylurex), Saturday, 10 May 2003 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Boy Looked at Johnny was co-written with fellow "hip young gunslinger" Tony Parsons.

Burchill once upon a time = pretty great writer, but she suffers from a severe case of Camille Paglia Syndrome (I like knowing everything + I AM NEVER WRONG = I will ignore everything that interferes with my knowing everything and never being wrong). Not as bad as the real CP, of course.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 10 May 2003 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Julie Burchill is impossible not to skim read. Only a few words in, and my eyes are skating across the paragraphs.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Saturday, 10 May 2003 04:44 (twenty-two years ago)

My mother asked me the other day if I tended to read her column (she has a regular slot in the Saturday Grauniad's colour supplement, which is where the Madonna piece appeared). I mean Burchill, not my mother, of course. Turns out we both have the same attitude - if we see the phrases "Brighton council", "my ex-husband" or the name of a pop star (75% of the time, alas) we skip forward (always passing over Alexander Chancellor's problems getting servants in Tuscany or working out how to use this modern telephone apparatus), but if she's writing about the wider world she's usually worth reading. Almost invariably wrong, but wrong in a provoking and entertaining way.

― Andrew Norman, Saturday, 10 May 2003 05:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Andrew reminds us all that a bit of anti-Alexander Chancellor vitriol would make a nice change from going on about Julie Burchill. But it's kind of hard to get worked up about him. He's just.. there. I think I'm more likely to read the Black Beauty page than his column. I have tried, honest.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 10 May 2003 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn, this one was harsh:
Far better to gird one's loins, paste on a grin and maintain, through gritted teeth, that American Life's "I drive my Mini Cooper and I'm feeling super-dooper" combines the wit of Oscar Wilde with the rapping skills of Grandmaster Flash.
She right, y'know...the only popstar to ever successfully use the word "Superdooper" in ANY context was Taco with his cover of "Puttin' on the Ritz"...and lets be fair, that songs crap too. But its still better than "American Life".

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 10 May 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't get the "rapping skills of Grandmaster Flash" bit. Flash didn't rap. OK, so what's the joke?

― Evan (Evan), Saturday, 10 May 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

that Julie Birchill is an idiot

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 10 May 2003 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Julie Burchill on Madonna: WORST SLASH EVER.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 10 May 2003 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

But JB is right about one thing, Madonna has been really dissappointing for years now. The last useful song she did was "Frozen", and even that wasn't really all that great.
Maybe my standards are too high...I keep expecting something as good as "Borderline" or "Express Yourself" and instead we get drivel like "Music"

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 10 May 2003 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I love music, but I hate "Music"

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 10 May 2003 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Burchill knows she can say anything she wants to, like your freak of an aunt, and knows that people still talk about her and she can still get paid enough money to live very comfortably in Brighton. I remember reading her column of a rant right after Paula Yates died and being so impressed and shocked at the amount of vitriol she felt towards a dead woman. But it still made for a good read and some of her writing from when she was a teenager was very nice.

― Carey (Carey), Saturday, 10 May 2003 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess the reason I really like her is that there weren't/aren't enough female music writers that have her kind of biting wit and that type of pissy humor.

― Carey (Carey), Saturday, 10 May 2003 23:18 (twenty-two years ago)

She's back on pop music today in one of her sporadic 'keep up, grandma' columns that one agrees with but shows how out of touch she is as a pop music commentator these days. Mind you, I suppose to some halfwit Guardian readers her pro-pop stance might still be seen as controversial.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 10 May 2003 23:40 (twenty-two years ago)

could someone link to something in the guardian worth reading so I might understand why anyone reads it

― James Blount (James Blount), Sunday, 11 May 2003 00:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll keep an eye out.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 11 May 2003 10:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh it's great. Not only because she voices an opinion to such cartoonesque degrees, but also because it's a punkah attitude: she rebels against mainstream opinion. But to claim that Madonna is purely crap despite the 20 year career, is to be blinkered: you can't deceive the public. Look at Prince and Michael J: they released *crap* music and were thus ignored by the public. Pop isn't merely a great voice, it's a combination of *things*. (Chart) pop is to some degree mostly business and Madonna has shown she's one of the most capable at sustaining that for years. Julie rules though. You have to take it in a tongue'n cheek kinda way.

― nathalie (nathalie), Sunday, 11 May 2003 11:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually they're both more alike than both would admit.

― nathalie (nathalie), Sunday, 11 May 2003 11:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't be arsed anymore with believing that the perfection of doublethink makes one sophisticated.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 11 May 2003 11:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Julie Burchill has never really grown up, which can be endearing at times but its usually just irritating. The only subjects she's capable of talking about are rubbish like Madonna - she's useless on anything that actually matters. And she's right about Madonna, 100%.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Sunday, 11 May 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I remember that article she wrote about Paula Yates.... and it was utterly sickening. It wasn't funny, remotely true or in any way acceptable - just nasty, vitriolic bile from a sad old chubby woman who looks like she needs a good fuck and an even better wash.

Grubby.

Dave - Edith Massey - whatta woman. A friend of mine called her daughter Edith in appreciation. Goddess.

― russ t, Monday, 12 May 2003 08:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Whore - virgin complex anyone?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 12 May 2003 09:34 (twenty-two years ago)

this week, jb reprints the freaky trigger manifesto. it's much better than the madonna piece (= i agree with a lot more of it than i did the madonna piece)

i'll post a link if i can find one

― zebedee (zebedee), Monday, 12 May 2003 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

here you go, hopefully

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,951868,00.html

― zebedee (zebedee), Monday, 12 May 2003 10:57 (twenty-two years ago)

What a vapid old cow she is.... Girls Aloud and Atomic Kitten my arse.

― russ t, Monday, 12 May 2003 11:02 (twenty-two years ago)

If you want authenticity, watch some morris dancing.
If you squint it look like "mom's dancing"; ho ho

...as Nick Hornby has pointed out, teenagers like sad songs because they've usually experienced no real tragedy, so feel free to try on misery as a pose.
Thats a cynical thing to say. This assumes that their is no real pain in the world, and that teenagers feel genuinely peachy-keen 24/7.

And partly because, to be worthy of the name, the one thing pop must be is performed by young people. And if that means I have to choose Gareth Gates over Sting, so be it...
Ick. If those are your only choices...

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 12 May 2003 11:05 (twenty-two years ago)

If you want authenticity, watch some morris dancing.

Since when was Morris Dancing authentic? Wasn't it all invented in the 1920s or sumthin'?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 12 May 2003 11:06 (twenty-two years ago)

"I've never read a Laura Logic article by Greil Marcus before today"

!!!!!!!!

(Okay I've cheated by removing Andrew's qualification of 'in the guardian')

I shouldn't really be snarky about greil marcus as in the past he's provided me with real joy - "mystery train" and "lipstick traces" are incredible, incredible books, but my heart just sank when I saw the heading of his article and having read it i felt that not only have I read him say the same things about lora logic loads of times before, but that these now seems to be pretty much the only things GM has to say about ANY music. My reception to this wasn't helped by having read another article in the guardian about stagger lee - although GM had nothing to do with this one his endless boring on about sl over the last few years has got increasingly fruitless

― adam b (adam b), Monday, 12 May 2003 11:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I like JB but for somebody who so often goes on record re the worthlesness of pop writers she sure writes about pop a lot

― dave q, Monday, 12 May 2003 11:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"And partly because, to be worthy of the name, the one thing pop must be is performed by young people."

Surely middle-aged people playing pop music are no sadder than middle-aged journos who think they have an interesting take on teen pop.

― ArfArf, Monday, 12 May 2003 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

this article is the second thing I've read by Julie Burchill. the first was a trashy novel called "ambition" my old roomate left around

it was one of the worst pieces of writing i've ever had the misfortune to suffer through. based on that i cannot take anything the woman has to say seriously.

― H (Heruy), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.