The Sea and Cake: COD/SD etc. etc.

I got The Biz at the same time as Nassau and ended up listening to it much less, so I don't know which songs to recommend on it. Overall, Nassau is my favorite.

They aren't my favorite band, but none of their work should be destroyed. (Maybe I don't know how to be critical about this kind of music.)

(You should try it sometime with some artist you like, it's different.)

Search: Sam's solo disc, Archer Prewitt's In the Sun. Destroy: Archer Prewitt's White Sky.

(Speaking of TSAC shows, I've been to a few, and they always end with "Do Now Fairly Well", which also happens to be the last song on The Fawn. Even when I saw Sam's solo show, he ended with that song. Anyone else notice this? I really like that song, so maybe that's why I remember.)

Have they gotten better or improved, also possibly not appropriate, is what I am saying, I think, for similar reasons - maybe I'd say the movement has been sideways, if you will.

Have disappointingly never heard Coctails or Shimp boat so cannot comment. Hope to remedy this in near future.

I think I got hooked by a couple of GREAT songs and then picked up the albums when I saw them used. Every album has two or three excellent tracks ("Parasol," "The Argument" "The Sporting Life" "Jacking The Ball") and then a lot that I just don't remember very well. But I'd say they're an intersting band. Very specific mood & sound they conjure. There is a Steely Dan connection, yes? But I like S&C a lot more than Steely Dan.

Sterling: I think it's harder to see the Coctails' influence in retrospect, now that that particular jazz-ish tinge is common to a lot of Chicago stuff. But when the Sea and Cake were getting started, the "Chicago Sound" still meant Urge Overkill or Smashing Pumpkins, making it a lot easier to tie the Coctails' and the Sea and Cake together. Plus you tag them as "goofy," which makes me wonder what period of their material you've heard most: The Early Hi-Ball Years is decidedly goofy, but their later material was a lot more poker-faced.

Sundar: Probably it's "The Sporting Life," which has a much clearer synth hook. "The Argument," I think, is utterly remarkable for its intro, during which McEntire manages to layer in little panned-out touches of organic percussion in much the same way jungle artists use breakbeats.

I should also throw my support behind Prekop's solo record, which is perfect from the cover art on in --- it's surely spent more time playing near me than all the Sea and Cake material combined. Which says a lot, as The Fawn and the self-titled album are personal favorites.

I don't really think your acerbic comment about academic papers is very apt. Academic writers wish they could be this precisely, casually graceful. Well, no. They don't (which is the problem with academic writers).

Question for y'all: how in the hell did The Coctails' goofy sound influence TSAC (I hardly hear it at all)? Or did it not?

Maybe in 'Escort' - parody of music in a James Bond/spy flick? But then I haven't heard the earlier Coctails, so I don't know if this is what you're on about.

McEntire wasn't in Poster Children. You're thinking of Johnny "Machine" Herndon.

As for The Sea and Cake, no comment.

Shrimp Boat was a very very great band. A really great moment of music in Chicago. Singular. As good as the records are (see: SPECKLY) they were more of an AMAZING live experience. Sam went on to do S&C and solo record, Ian Schneller went on to do a band called Falstaff and makes guitars under the name Specimen, Dave went on to paint, Eric Clairage (Ian's brother) went on to be the bass player in S&C, and Brad Wood (producer of Liz Phair among many many other records) was the drummer/sax-ist. They had another drummer and additional sax player in their final days but some people dont even count that as

the ride out on the last track with strings and funky bass is absolutely, unbelievably sublime though. worth the price of admission for that alone.

don't believe the hype ... the sam prekop album seems deliberately obtuse. open close listening the songwriting is weak (but good sounding) and if you heard the album being piped down a disused elevator shaft you'd think it was the perfect fusion between pop and jazz. i think either the saving grace or the damnation of this album is the result of that infernal meddler jim o'rourke ... hard to decide. the ride out on the last track with strings and funky bass is absolutely, unbelievably sublime though. worth the price of admission for that alone.

-- fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon@yahoo.com), April 03, 2002.

-------------------------------------------------------

Hahaha Josh: okay not everything I think relates to my pet theory of last summer, and besides, the whole reason I was so whole- hog taken with the Chicago post-rock concepts was that I really do go for the studiometrickery and krautische dronism. But ... umm ... yeah, that is sort of part of it: Jim O'Rourke's real contribution to the Chicago bunch was that crisp roomy realistic production of his, and maybe 15% of the Prekop's greatness revolves around the thrill of hearing that a lot of the studio-y post-rock aims could be stripped back and accomplished more naturally as well. (I.e. in some sense it's argument is that the core of what works about Prekop's post-rock isn't the post-rock textural stuff: it's really just Prekop himself.)

But the majority of its goodness (and this is a slightly-related point but isn't so much about sound as it is about songwriting) comes from the fact that it erases a lot of what people slag off in Chicago post-rock: for one thing, it has this weird sense of humility about it, insofar as it erases a lot of the showy grooves and pulses in favor of this incredibly pretty and incredibly graceful light-on-its- feet feel. Also and most importantly it's just a really solid composition: a lot of post-rock records seem very much rock, insofar as they're trying to be sort of expansive and groovy, whereas the Prekop has a weirdly Satie-ish sense of being very much a composition and an arrangement in ways that the Sea and Cake (who themselves were pop to post-rock's rock) never were.

Also the simultaneous Prewitt and Prekop solo records were really telling, insofar as it became clear that Prewitt wanted to work with a much much more traditional singer-songwritery format (which people disappointingly paid way more attention to) whereas Prekop went for this highly-composed and very unique territory that comes around to some really terrific pop at lots of points on the record -- which is sort of what I go for most in music, interesting visions that coalesce into really great pop from directions one wouldn't expect.

Last argument revolves around the fact that the Prekop solo sort of reveals Prekop as the bigger definer of the Sea and Cake sound -- and so when I'm really really enjoying the Prekop, it's easy to look at some Sea and Cake stuff and see it as the essence of what's great about Prekop but blanketed and sort of obscured with a lot of other people's very of-the-moment "post-rock" ideas. In this sense it's good that the Prekop came toward the end of Chicago post-rock seeming very vibrant and relevant, as I think it -- with its more singular Prekoppy vision -- will for a good while seem like the diamond in there, the timeless one.

That said, I've gone back and forth a lot over whether the Prekop is really better than The Fawn, which I also love: the fact that The Fawn is more of-its-moment (and thus essentially "dates" now that I'm "getting over" post-rock) might be what makes me, a few years later, prefer the Prekop, which I'll admit might be a critical bias.

Dude, you asked.

why doesn't prekop just make an all-bossa nova record?

so listening again this morning, one thing sticks out very prominently and that's that i've always figured sam was really into krautrock — but comma is just so reminiscent of mid-70s cluster. and in the best way possible. man it's good.

"All The Photos" always reminded me of CAN. Sam's vocals on it give me a big Michael Karoli vibe.

Third listen in a row this morning and the same thought keeps coming to me: this is the exact kind of music I needed right now. Respectful of the past, but simultaneously using those ideas to offer some very unique thoughts. And gorgeous. . . oh my, how gorgeous this music is.

Absolutely agreed, Moodles! When I saw the Sea and Cake live, some guy shouted out between songs, "Play NEU!" and Sam cracked a grin. Random memory.

Thanks for the head's up Austin! His s/t and 'Who's Your New Professor' are still faves in my household, but I somehow never checked 'Old Punch Card' and 'Republic', which makes it all the more interesting to see how he's broadened his scope. Lovely sound palette and great kraut chugging, though I do miss his vox (I'm on the third track).

glad you're digging it, le bat!

one thing i was thinking about yesterday was that he's done three of these "official"* modular synth solo albums now and all three have completely different vibes. first one's completely schizo and has a wider palette than the others. second one's got two distinct parts but, a really exploratory mood. and then this new one has a very sustained, competent vibe. just kind of cool the amount of variety to be found.

*he has a few super limited things in the instrumental modular synth vein, but they were limited things and, idk, don't feel like they "count" or smthg

sam reacts to the pfork score on his new record lol

https://i.imgur.com/Id9mAmj.jpg

I'd never heard the S/T debut before so I'm playing it right now. Was thinking, "okay this is pretty good" just before I hit the stretch of "Showboat Angel" and "So Long to the Captain" and it was instantly upgraded to, "holy shit this is great!"

yeah it's uneven but I'd say 2 of their 3 best tracks are there

always thought Sam had a little Malkmus affectation going there on a vocals for a bit

Yes! I almost mentioned that myself, it was especially apparent on those two songs.

when i saw them and they played 'jacking the ball', sam introduced it with, "here's a song about grapes."

; )

never noticed how indebted these guys are to Krautrock before. "The Transaction" has the same guitar riff as "Moonshake" and "Four Corners" is basically "Fur Immer" (at least before the vocals come in)

I get strong CAN vibes from Oui. Sam's singing on "All The Photos" has always reminded me of Michael Karoli.

For sure--would esp recommend The Moonlight Butterfly mini-album from 2011 since I remember it leaning towards that side of their sensibilities

funny i never listened to them before but a couple tracks of theirs came up recently as i was trawling random spotify playlists of modern krautrock-y sounds. any other kraut-indebted releases of theirs recommended?

Their music is kind of "you got krautrock in my bossa nova! you got bossa nova in my krautrock!" Except, you know, not really either of those things.

Totally.
Instrumental/vocal-less Sam Prekop solo stuff would also be recommended due to all the modular-synth kosmische-iness of it (Old Punch Card for pure Raymond Scott-ish/Nuno Canavarro-y abstraction, Comma for beat-based sequences, The Republic for a mix of the two AFAIR?)

More Sam Prekop

https://longformeditions.bandcamp.com/track/spelling

new ep!!

https://samprekop.bandcamp.com/album/in-away

one time when I was in a dentist waiting room I heard a song which had a very similar drum pattern to "One Bedroom". it sounds like they sampled it. anyone know what it might have been?

"Andy Day" is so cool. it captures everything good about Oui in 5 minutes. sucks that Claridge couldn't play on this but it does give the album a slightly different sound which is good for them

ILX is the only message board on the planet where I can stop this kind of observation: Nassau sounds like Crazy Rhythms Feelies trying to play Good Earth songs

Agreed about Any Day. Still undeniably them, but their base standard is quality so it always sounds great when it's on. Here's to hoping there's still more to come.

I wasn't totally crazy on the early records (I didn't hear them until Oui), but the more I've revisited them over the years, the better those first two get. When you consider some of Sam's stuff in Shrimp Boat, that's a pretty good assessment I'd say. Very appropriate comparison and I totally get what you mean.

RE: Your previous question about a possible sample. Don't know it, but curious. That's a pretty distinct rhythm too. I'd certainly recognize it in the wild.

also Any Day has a fantastic closing track which is something they tend to uh...not usually have

for me The Biz is the one, though mostly for sentimental value. it was the first one I discovered (by accident, I was searching for Cake and someone mistitled the MP3), I was like 16, and I dug it immensely. on relisten the first album is definitely the special one. it's so breezy and chill, it's like they're trying to sing you to sleep. not in the way some of their other stuff does either.

sam prekop: "I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU THAT WE WON'T STOP I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU THAT WE DON'T STOP."

(nothing to do with the incoming mcentire collab; it's another 20+ minute synth sesh. beats and all. i like it, of course.)

One really nice moment in their catalogue : the part in “The Argument” where Prekop sings “40 days till we rest again” and then in the background mumbles “sit tight y’all”

thinkin about an old friend of mine. we were roommates for a little while. he was really into Deftones, nu-metal, and dubstep. in fact that was pretty much all he liked as far as I could tell. one day he told me he took some of my burned CDs off the computer desk and was really digging one of them in particular. said it was playing in his car for weeks on end. I found out it was The Biz and now every time I listen to it (like now) I can't help but wonder what it was he liked about it so much. I mean it's a great album but man our tastes were not compatible AT ALL

Happened upon Moonlight Butterfly at a store in Milwaukee. kinda forgot it existed but sheesh it's pretty nice. The ten minute "Inn Keeping" is really nice. I think they could make a whole album like that. Maybe sorta like that Prekop/McEntire thing from last year. Anyway, is it just me or are all TSAC albums since Everybody kinda brickwalled?

a pitch-perfect prophecy that transitions into a jam with a younger robert wyatt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLDjcPO4L3s

frogs otm, "inn keeping" is maybe my POO s+c jam.

i'm posting here today because there is no proper shrimp boat topic and "what do you think of love" is a monumental jam whose neglect i will stand for no longer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YGj0yD_tho
shrimp boat, as you may know, was sam's pre-sea & cake band. eric claridge had joined the fold by this point. big sigh. sam is dreamy, isn't he?

also more shrimp boat/pre-sea & cake ephemera: has anyone heard the falstaff albums? random fact: the custom leslie speaker employed by andrew bird during live performances -which andrew nicknamed "SPINNEY"- was built for him by ian schneller, formally of falstaff and, prior to that, shrimp boat. that's what he did after his playing in bands days ended: he built amps and speakers and schitt. hero.

I love that Shrimp Boat album the whole Cavale album. Seems a very necessary album for those who love the earliest S&C albums

yeah, definitely! there's a bit of later era stuff on shrimp boat's something grand - https://www.discogs.com/master/300357-Shrimp-Boat-Something-Grand but the last ep (small wonder from 92) is only on the limited edition disc, and subsequently, not on streaming. "here comes your ride" is basically sam getting to the first sea&cake album before he realizes what's happening-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZi_fSr3RzQ
(is that a mandolin towards the end? kinda glad s&c ditched that, even though it sounds okay here!)

for some of the other side of the s&c progenitors, i've been jamming this coctails tune a bit lately-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBvGOUwy6Hc
the coctails - "cadali" (1996)

good exposition on what archer brought to the group.

btw no questions this time, archer's a certified dreamboat

oh yeah, here's archer's first band. golly, sure would like to hear that one! maybe some good fodder for we listen so fast: forgotten/unkown/unloved 80s we are listening to.

that's very nice and I can hear the S and C in there for sure

this is my favorite 'you can hear s&c' coctails jam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYQgQtk10To

close second (go stuart moxham!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BeEAKwqn5c

relistening to The Biz now, never realized how rad that instrumental jam at the end of "Leeora" was, it's real mathy and technical in a way I never heard I because didn't think TSAC were that kind of band

one thing this makes me think of was the first time I heard the term "soft rock" - this is the kind of music I was envisioning

That’s my fave jam of theirs and there is a very cool pro-shot live version somewhere on YouTube. Search, don’t destroy.

appreciate that shout, frogs! their intial quick opening trilogy of albums might come off a little samey and the songs interchangeable on first impressions, but i agree: the biz holds a bit of a different energy than the first two, with some slight expansions in sound. archer gets into the e-bow properly and sam+john break out the synths. "leeora" is a big favorite from that era and "an assassin" has always sounded like a lost kraut rock riff to me. maybe not my favorite overall of their catalogue, but easily my favorite of the early stuff. "darkest night" also maybe my favorite of their ballads.

quick last thought for now: "station in the valley" riff is alltime. there's not even a vocal refrain that accompanies it, but that's because it doesn't need one.

an assassin followed by the transaction has always felt so emotionally satisfying to me. i think the transaction reminds me of new order’s regret and i’d been searching or just waiting for a song as good as regret for five years. my favorite record of theirs, well also the first one i bought by them, i think maybe nassau is betters (more dynamic and wide ranging) but the biz is my fave.

hey again. this revive has sent me back into their "middle period" albums. wistful sigh, friends. from the fawn through runner, this is stellar music all the way. idk what their best album is. they did so much music that is... i'm sorry, it's just fucking awesome music! the remixes on the eps are completely wild, their ballads are some of the most girgeous new americana i've ever heard, and have you heard "inn keeping"!??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F__3wRugDRM
...it's ten minutes long and it makes me cry! moonlight butterfly is so underrated!

s/t 4
nassau 4
biz 5
fawn 5
two gentlemen 3.5
oui 4
one bedroom 4
glass 4
everybody 4
car alarm 3.5
moonlight butterfly 4
runner 5
any day 3.5

they need a rarities compilation too, god dammit. there's at least another entire album's worth of non-lp material from 94-97. the extras from the everybody era are pure blissout goofaround fun.

f'kn band rules forever. kings.

Marked for future investigation. These last few posts, and now Austin's map to the catalogue, are real enticing. Thanks, you four.

cheers to you, and me a decade ago:

they could really do with a rarities album.

― austinato (Austin), Wednesday, April 15, 2015 2:47 PM

thought i was done? nah.

As a matter of fact, they need to do a rarities compilation.

― he doesn't need to be racist about it though. (Austin), Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:37 AM

and yeah, going back through thread: frogs consistently otm for years at a time. good work, everyone! here's "an echo in" from the glass ep. it has wah-wah. alright!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ2FU6g098Q

Sounds like I ought to relisten to Runner then. I remember liking it fine but never really gave it a close listen. I do have on their latest record Any Day which is very nice. It took me a number of listens to really discern one song from another, but when you really dig into it there are some very pretty tunes on here. "Into Rain" for instance. And of course the title track. That said I do find myself wondering a lot, wait, don't they have a different song like this? Not in just the overall vibe but some of the specific chord changes. There's not really anything new on it, not that TSAC have ever really gone much out on a limb since One Bedroom, but still. Even the title of the record seems like a re-run. It's a good record but it doesn't really justify the long wait and the fact that they haven't done one since kinda confirms to me the band has faded out. There doesn't really seem to be a whole lot of interest in them either way; they've been a "secret handshake" band as long as I can remember. I still see people discovering this band every now and then, often with the same "where has this been my whole life?" reaction I had when I first encountered them (at 17, lol). There's still no one else out there who quite scratches that itch.