Why isn't Bright Eyes considered "emo" ?

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I have never seen/heard them referred to as "emo", yet they (he) is obviously very emotional. Granted I've not read too much about them... but it's still always bugged me.

― Aaron M (Aaron M), Sunday, 11 May 2003 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought they were considered emo. What do i know? I am scared ever since I saw that picture of conor kissing winona.

― Eve, Sunday, 11 May 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

does he wear a white belt?

― hstencil, Sunday, 11 May 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought that Bright Eyes was the Epitome of Emo!?
Don't they usually get mentioned in the same breath with Sunny Day Real Estate and the Promise Ring?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 11 May 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

AMG simply calls him "indie rock" and "indie pop." None of the artists listed as "similar artists" are emo bands either, though some are "sadcore" and I suppose there's a pretty fine line there... but still.

― Aaron M (Aaron M), Sunday, 11 May 2003 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

AMG needs a "crap" category.

― paul cox (paul cox), Sunday, 11 May 2003 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

"Nebraskan wunderkind Conor Oberst writes songs so naked and heartfelt they make you feel like a voyeur just listening to them. This precocious singer-songwriter croons with the astonished intensity of a homeless Robert Smith singing for his supper. And his band's fourth album is every bit as lyrical, sprawling, and pretentious as its title. The production is notably brighter and crisper than previous efforts, with some songs, notably "Nothing Gets Crossed Out," lushly swathed in sweet-sounding strings. When Lifted is great, as on the slow-churning anthem "From a Balance Beam," it's superb, visionary pop music, on par with Jeff Mangum, Phil Elvrum, and Daniel Johnston--and on occasion, Dylan. Unfortunately, half the songs sprawl on too long or revisit the same themes too frequently. Still, anyone who can operate a fast-forward button will find much to enjoy on this vital, messy masterpiece." --Mike McGonigal (from amazon)

― Aaron M (Aaron M), Sunday, 11 May 2003 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Many of the user reviews do call him emo. Critics don't, at any rate. This Pitchfork review doesn't label them as such, either

― Aaron M (Aaron M), Sunday, 11 May 2003 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

'emo' should have clear roots in hardcore, or something.

― Aaron A., Sunday, 11 May 2003 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

"sadcore"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 11 May 2003 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

"feistyalcoholicblackirishboycore"

― donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 11 May 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Whiny little bastard. There.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 May 2003 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

...because "drama queen-core" is much more accurate.

― Dave M. (rotten03), Sunday, 11 May 2003 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

whenpeoplebringupthenameconnoroberstIreachformygun-core

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Sunday, 11 May 2003 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

he is too pussy even for emo

― Dan I., Sunday, 11 May 2003 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

colon o'burst

― gygax! (gygax!), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

gygax wins

― jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I second gygax's rightness.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

argh

― bnw (bnw), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah I've been thinking about this for quite a while now, why won't ILM admit the genius of Bright Eyes?? I mean, ppl here don't usually shy away from the joys of ridiculous uber-pomp (Queen, Journey, etc.), and Connor is like the epitome of that! I mean, he became a self-parody as soon as he started making music, how cool is that?

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 11 May 2003 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Or to put it another way: I've heard ppl complain about Bright Eyes long before I ever heard a BE track, so I had a pretty good idea of what he would sound like- pompous, self important, melodramatic Emo Kid whining about losing his girlfriend...and that was exactly what it was, only moreso, to such a degree that I thought "wait, this can't possibly be Bright Eyes, this has to be someone taking the piss out of 'em!" He takes his flaws to such extremes that I can't fathom finding them offensive at all.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 11 May 2003 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sorry, but I do not understand your argument. If I thought it was all a joke, I might like it more.

http://www.dimbola.co.uk/images/exhibitions/ex_7.jpg

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 11 May 2003 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.keane-eyes.com/pstr2.jpg

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 11 May 2003 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.carbon.org/big_eyes.jpg

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 11 May 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.polykarbon.com/tutorials/expression/sad3.gif

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 11 May 2003 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.citypaper.com/2000-10-11/music-1.jpg

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 11 May 2003 23:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i ~~am in love with~~ know a young woman with a hallway hung with margaret keene paintings. it's very cool.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 12 May 2003 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Let me check my database -- hm, oh yes, applied to me for his emo certificate a few years back -- DENIED!!

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 12 May 2003 06:58 (twenty-two years ago)

The funny thing is that Conor Oberst actually *does* look like a character in a Japanese Manga. Probably one of the Yaoi-type Mangas that C*lum loves so much.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 12 May 2003 10:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Custos, that is a disturbing, disturbing mental image.

I call Bright Eyes "malehysteric-core", myself.

― cis (cis), Monday, 12 May 2003 10:53 (twenty-two years ago)

The emo crowd needs lessons in guy things...Melissa Etheridge should take Connor Oberst (and the entire cast of Emogame.com) deer huntin'

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 12 May 2003 10:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Dashboard Confessional vs. Bright Eyes: which one is worse? It's a hard choice.

― die9o (dhadis), Monday, 12 May 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

bright eyes never troubled my television or took valuable airspace away from ludacris videos

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 May 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Jess clearly wins here. But fear -- didn't Bright Eyes sign to a major or something? They will be troubling your TV soon.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 May 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, when I first heard of Conor Oberst, it was in reference to him being emo. And Bright Eyes is, after all, on Saddle Creek, which along with PolyVinyl and Jade Tree, makes up some kind of holy emo trinity. But I can see why maybe the description isn't used as much anymore, now that he's pulled a Ryan Adams and gone Hollywood.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 12 May 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought he sounded promising until I actually heard him; he's the pits.

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 12 May 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Oberst-core. It's a new category.

― scott m (mcd), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't believe he's signed to a major (he claims to want to stick with Saddle Creek), but he signed a song publishing deal with Sony a good while back. It's a smart move, you maintain total artistic freedom but you get the help of a big company when it comes to what you decide to create.

I think the reason some people avoid the word emo is that he's good beyond the standard expectations of the genre, plus the term is a big of a derogatory word in many circles. Not everyone wanted to call Nirvana "grunge."

I think Lifted has a lot of great songs but the acoustic only tracks can be murder (esp. "Waste Of Paint").

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

he's good beyond the standard expectations of the genre

I think I'll just stare at this a while.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Y'all need to stop hating; Bright Eyes is really good. He kinda fell off on the last album, but he makes better pissed-off-teenager-staring-at-a-wall music than anyone else right now, including Linkin Park. I'd argue that the world needs POTSAAW music pretty badly. To put him in the same category as Dashboard Confessional proves you haven't spent much time listening to either. Dashboard Confessional is simple and bland; Bright Eyes is tragic and overwrought and self-obsessed and articulate. You're allowed to make sad music, dudes. It's OK.

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Monday, 12 May 2003 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Y'all need to stop hating

No.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 May 2003 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

He kinda fell off on the last album, but he makes better pissed-off-teenager-staring-at-a-wall music than anyone else right now, including Linkin Park.

what a recommendation!

in a related note, why isn't Prince considered funk? why isn't Missy considered rap or R&B? why aren't Metallica considered metal?

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 12 May 2003 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah! It was a recommendation! Linkin Park rules! I would've said Radiohead, but I can't imagine any but the most pretentious pissed-off teenagers listening to Radiohead these days.

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know why everyone hates Bright Eyes. Am i alone on this?

― Andrzej B. (Andrzej B.), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's because they're just sick and tired of hearing complainy music and file it away as such without listening deeper. I'm not, so I don't. This may mean I'm too tolerant of hypermelodramatic stuff, but tough!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 12 May 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't care how much he bitches and complains, I just wish he wouldn't do it in such a shrieky, shrill little voice.

― Ally (mlescaut), Monday, 12 May 2003 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

This precocious singer-songwriter croons with the astonished intensity of a homeless Robert Smith singing for his supper.

HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 12 May 2003 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I think he writes terrible songs, and the arrangements don't do anything for me. I like one song even, but most generally I laugh at anyone who say they like Bright Eyes much. I know a girl who had a shirt made saying "CONOR IS GOD". Goddamn, that really is the most embarrassing thing ever, isn't it?

― Adam A. (Keiko), Monday, 12 May 2003 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, laughing at someone's inferior music taste is what ILM is all about.

― bnw (bnw), Monday, 12 May 2003 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

(I'll admit I'm defensive about Bright Eyes b/c I am a fan but... these threads where a group of people post "he sucks" "yeah he really sucks dude" "no wait guys, he totally sucks crap" is so fucking lame.)

― bnw (bnw), Monday, 12 May 2003 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

So, um, why not argue the point? I've seen a couple different reasons as to why people think they suck (for example, his voice makes me want to stab him in the arm).

― Ally (mlescaut), Monday, 12 May 2003 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

he makes better pissed-off-teenager-staring-at-a-wall music than anyone else right now

Well yeah, but expectations for that whole genre are so low that Oberst doesn't necessarily have to be any good.

Seriously, I don't hate emo on principle. I'm actually a sucker for melodramatic or acrobatic vocals. But what I've heard of Bright Eyes makes me want to chuck Oberst into a time machine and send him into the future so he can learn about more mundane adult disappointments.

― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 12 May 2003 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, I like Bright Eyes. I also think Conor Oberst is a histrionic prettyboy in desperate need of an editor (the problem with 'waste of paint' isn't that it's mostly acoustic, it's that it goes on and on and on and yet nowhere), and that the band desperately needs to clean up their live act, because it's shit. But the records are great for being moody to, and there are some fantastic lyrics among the ranting.

― cis (cis), Monday, 12 May 2003 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I prefer the more upbeat Bright Eyes tracks. In fact i think Conor's best work is the Desaparecidos album, which is substantially rockier than BE..

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 12 May 2003 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

while still respecting this forum on the whole, i've resigned myself to the fact that bright eyes is one of a few really great bands that will never be accepted here. a simple case of missing the forest for the trees i suppose. plus, it takes a certain lack of self-consciousness to like a band that is so easily likable.

― Prince Pants, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 00:46 (twenty-two years ago)

oh for fuck's sake

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 00:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I would normally <3 the awkward teenager demographic, but Conor comes off as overly earnest and precocious. And it's not passive-aggressive enough. I'm not a big fan of self-indulgent klutz-twee shite.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

"demographic" = "image", I have no idea how the fuck that happened.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 01:08 (twenty-two years ago)

this "easily likable" comment may be the funniest ILx thing evah!

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 05:44 (twenty-two years ago)

and probably the most patronising

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 05:45 (twenty-two years ago)

nah, that would be my last post

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 05:49 (twenty-two years ago)

If I thought it was all a joke, I might like it more.

Of course it's all a joke, that needn't even be argued. The question- and what makes Bright Eyes' music interesting- is whether he's in on it or not- that last pic you posted suggests he might be.

Perhaps it's because I've never met a Bright Eyes fan, but I'm constantly amazed that so many people take him at face value...to me, if anything he's a parody of the whole Emo genre.

Either that, or a career built on trying to write the next "I (Who Have Nothing)". Not sure which one it is yet.

(both are great)

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 10:28 (twenty-two years ago)

could you guys actually make some sort of intelligent response to my comment, rather than just mocking it and trying to make me feel like an idiot? or don't respond at all. i wasn't attempting patronize anyone. i genuinely think bright eyes is a band anyone can like, if you just listen and don't preject all your indie-hatred on it. i mean, now that i'm thinking about it, maybe i'm dealing with someone who doesn't actually know what patronizing means, because you know, honestly, there's really no way that could be taken as a patronizing remark. ahhh... tough crowd. tough, grumpy crowd.

― Prince Pants, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't possess any indie hatred. i like a lot of Bright Eyes stuff. but:

it takes a certain lack of self-consciousness to like a band that is so easily likable.

really does come across as being quite patronising. but if that wasn't your intent then fair enough.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

if you just listen and don't preject all your indie-hatred on it

FWIW, the first time I saw them was at a small DIY club show, so I don't have indie-hatred per se. I knew nothing about them so I did 'just listen,' but what I heard made me snigger or else shrug. Nothing I've heard since has changed that impression.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't stand the Desaparecidos album: musically, it strikes me as being pretty... mediocre. Also, that whole 'voiceovers!/answerphone messages!/tracks not ending properly!' schtick should be destroyed. It turns almost likeable tracks into hideously annoying shite. And it makes it impossible to put them on compilations.

The first Bright Eyes track I ever heard was 'false advertising', so I can't but be convinced the band is an elaborate joke on confessional singer-songwriters. And far too meta for its own good (all those references to poets going on about their PAIN?); but, then, I like that.

Prince Pants: I think the thing that was regarded as patronising might have been the implication that people who dislike Bright Eyes do so not because they can't stand the music or the lyrics - which are perfectly valid reasons to dislike any band - but because they're "self-conscious". You did sort of give the impression that you thought people were claiming not to like Bright Eyes because he wasn't cool. I'm sure you didn't mean that, but it came across that way.
And I'm full of indie hatred, but not for Bright Eyes. ;)

― cis (cis), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Bright Eyes is not what I would consider 'emo'. Do 'emo' artists wield acoustic guitars and full bands with horns, strings, and lap-steels and sing waltzes over piano? Basically, B.E. is too soft to be emo. Emo is SDRE, Promise Ring, Knapsack, etc. - rockin stuff. Lyrically, sure, there is a resemblence. Some Bright Eyes songs do rock, but I dunno ... I wouldn't consider it emo.

Desaperacidos, on the other hand, is def. 'emo' and I would say a lot better than a lot of 'emo' out there.

― tk, Wednesday, 14 May 2003 00:52 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, well, if anyone's feelings were hurt by my orginal post, i'm sorry.

honestly, i only want for people to enjoy bright eyes as much as i do, because they're a really fun band to like believe it or not. that was my motivation behind the "easily likable" remark; i really think there's a bright eyes song for everyone. the problem is you can't just dip your finger in the pot and know what they have to offer. and just seeing them live is not the way to go either, because none of their more interesting songs are (or can be) performed live. the whole singer/songwriter w/ acoustic guitar thing is just a tiny facet of their output, and that's all you'll get if you see them live. the gold is tucked away on 7"s and compilations and eps. conor oberst has that nasty habit that lots of musicians have, which is not knowing what his best material is. dig around though, and you can find really great stuff. they have songs that are arranged for nothing but drums, they have really cool reinterpretations of old standards (a new live song called "i'm wide awake it's morning" is based on "ode to joy" with some super pop verses dovetailed into it's normal progression), they have screeching noise freakouts, totally joyous electro-pop... if i knew everyone's taste, i bet you i can find at least a couple bright eyes songs for every person here.

ah well... i guess it doesn't matter. at least people are talking about them here.

― Prince Pants, Wednesday, 14 May 2003 03:44 (twenty-two years ago)

oh yeah: listen to head of femur. they're a bright eyesish band that might be more up ilm's alley. just don't let yourself find out that they're fronted by bright eyes' drummer.

― Prince Pants, Wednesday, 14 May 2003 04:13 (twenty-two years ago)

the whole singer/songwriter w/ acoustic guitar thing is just a tiny facet of their output, and that's all you'll get if you see them live.

Apologies if I'm beating a dead horse now, but said live experience was them trying for the whole heavily amplified 'if emo did Godspeed' experience. Erk.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 14 May 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

bright eyes is god. sorry jews.

― ef you all, Thursday, 20 April 2006 21:23 (nineteen years ago)

Just wait til I report you to the Elders of Zion.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 20 April 2006 21:27 (nineteen years ago)

bright eyes is god. sorry jews.

wtf!??

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 April 2006 22:19 (nineteen years ago)

bright eyes is god.

so that's why the world is so fucked up. thanks a lot, conor, you fucking asswipe. i could be a much better god than you.

― Alex in Baghdad, Thursday, 20 April 2006 22:21 (nineteen years ago)

does the president talk to bright eyes

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 21 April 2006 01:27 (nineteen years ago)

oh, Joachim von Ribbenpaws

― A|ex P@reene (Pareene), Friday, 21 April 2006 01:49 (nineteen years ago)

the whole heavily amplified 'if emo did Godspeed'

For some reason, my brain briefly interpreted this as 'if emo did Godflesh,' which might have been much more interesting...

― Myke. (Myke Weiskopf), Friday, 21 April 2006 03:10 (nineteen years ago)

Isis?

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 21 April 2006 07:46 (nineteen years ago)

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