"the hip-hop debasement of culture"

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In today's funnies: "As part of the festivities, industry mogul Russell Simmons received a Lifetime Achievement Award, which symbolized two things. First, the irrelevancy of the NAACP to address problems in a serious way. Second, the hypocrisy of an organization that protests speeches given by Clarence Thomas, the nation's most distinguished black jurist, yet awards a hustler in the seamy music business who gained his wealth by purveying filth to young people."

Andy K (Andy K), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

poor snoop...why do they always feel the need to drag him through the mud?

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Barret Kalellis, hero:

http://www.detnews.com/pix/2003/05/11/a15kalellis.jpg

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

It is a pernicious, noxious anodyne for those who step into this mire and, ultimately, a dead end.

Even Allen Bloom wasn't this bad. Was he?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

at least he's the founder of the "detroit chamber ensemble" or somesuch and not some aging rocker-type.

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

forget mixed, that sentence is like a metaphor puree.

g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Monday, 12 May 2003 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't get the Shizzolator to work on this bitch.

Andy K (Andy K), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I have to agree with the sentiment of this, hip hop has added a lot of bass to our culture.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Aren't you confusing "debasement" with "embassment", Horace?

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

This guy actually defines in only a few words why I love the rock and roll: "satanic, narcissistic navel contemplation through a drug-induced haze, pyrotechnics and smoke machines."

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

If you get the chance, read the opposing article, written by Detroit mayor Kwamye Kilpatrick (sp?). He comes off as very a intelligent man, who understands the youth.

Mr. Kalellis's entire article, on the other hand, comes off as one big long "YOU KIDS, TURN DOWN THAT INFERNAL RACQUET!"

David Allen, Monday, 12 May 2003 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

And while you're at it, check out the "Urban Music Movement" sidebar to this editorial. It's chock full of historical insight like:

"Rap has become one of the dominant forms of popular music in the country. It is a musical style in which artists talk in rhyme to the rhythm of a beat."

Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I was just about to ask "What would Kwame think?"

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

The Kilpatrick article.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

haha you couldn't get a more "Democrat mayor" name than Kwamye Kilpatrick.

g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

he sounds like the coolest mayor ever

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

although its probably no different than our having a "rock&roll" president finally, since the music was so old/entrenched in the culture

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 May 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I want to move to Detroit just so I can vote for Kwame Kilpatrick, the Mayoral Boy Genius, rockin' those polka dotz.

Neudonym, Monday, 12 May 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

"'a gay president in 2024'??"

"eh, we're realistic."

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 May 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Kilpatrick's got a lot of things working in his favor, but he has made some ruffling anti-gay remarks, like this one:

"'I don't want Jelani and Jalil out there, you know, even seeing that type of lifestyle,' Kilpatrick said in May. 'I don't want it to happen. It's too important, especially for men today.'"

(See here.)

Andy K (Andy K), Monday, 12 May 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

"The high part of the farce is when Simmons and various politicos try to elevate this nonsense into a Renaissance-like cultural movement that translates into an inchoate political force waiting to be tapped. They yammer about mobilizing the hip-hop generation "to change the outcome of elections" and daydream about all those votes in their column. Trouble is, statistics show that most of these rap listeners don't vote in elections."

After reading this, though, you'd think he'd find this GOOD that they don't vote:

"In our republican form of government, unfettered universal suffrage has been taken to an extreme. Why is it that there are age and residency qualifications for voting, but none for the comprehension of elementary civics? Why is any vagrant allowed to cast an ignorant vote on our country’s future and that of all of its citizens, but cannot participate on the jury panel of, say, the Van Cliburn Piano Competition?"

Barrett Kalellis: battling the decline of Western Civilization with every seven-hundred-words-a-pop spasm, each suitable for folks at a seventh-grade reading level (with super-duper bonus SAT words!). The futility of it all makes me yawn.

Seriously, though, are there really statistics that show a correlation between listening habits and voting? Can somebody find this? (Oh no! SoundScan run amok! OH NO!)

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 12 May 2003 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

thanks, I needed that.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 12 May 2003 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah that mayor sounds really cool,appearently he was involved in
sorting out the detroit electronic music festival as well

robin (robin), Monday, 12 May 2003 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Good GAWD, that guy is the WHITEST White Guy I have ever seen! He even paler than Michael Jackson, ferchrissakes!

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 01:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir been in?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

"In writing about rap music and the hip-hop debasement of culture, one begins to feel like hapless Kevin McCarthy at the end of 'The Invasion of the Body Snatchers' "
subtext of this statement: I'm a paranoid fool who still sees a commie in every hidden shadow.
subtext of the article: Whenever I heard the word cuture...thats when I reach for my revolver.
subtext of the man's soul: you can tell from my photo that I have not and will not get laid, and need to vent my frustration on those I see as "the other"

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

In heavy metal and punk acts, there was satanic, narcissistic navel contemplation through a drug-induced haze, pyrotechnics and smoke machines.

...uhm, what?

and, dudes, I am SO going to name my band, "Vulgarian Drivel"

Kingfish (Kingfish), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

speaking of this stuff, did anyone read the strange review of the DVD of "Style Wars", the graffiti documentary, over at the NYT on sunday?

There was a lot of weirdness in the article, but what jumped out at me was the way the author seemed to say that the foundation of graffiti and rap was primarily the thrill of breaking the law. He mentioned several times that rap was made from "stolen" snatches of music, and that graffiti, besides being inherently illegal, was perpetrated with "stolen" cans of spray paint. Here's a paragraph to give you the flavor, and maybe some laffs, too: (plus I like how he even accuses the movie itself of 'stealing' the music, cf. the 'uncredited' aside)

"Brandishing cans of stolen paint, the new vandals sprayed cryptic messages on trains, spun on their heads and rapped over stolen beats in the parks. Graffiti artists like Seen, Doni, Demon, Dust, Case, Crash, Iz the Wiz, Kid 167 and Futura were every bit as central to the new hip-hop culture as Grandmaster Flash, the Treacherous Three, the Furious Four and other artists whose music appears (uncredited) on the "Style Wars" soundtrack. All celebrated spontaneity and law-breaking. The art of rap depended on the deft appropriation of pre-existing beats, capped by the lyrical flow of the rapper — who appeared to improvise incandescent rhymes on the spot, just as the quick, fluid movements of the graffiti writers suggested that the artists were being chased by the cops. Furies of invention, the city kids who bombed the trains and scribbled over beats pushed themselves to ever-greater heights of innovation, out of a thirst for local fame and for the pleasure of communicating in a code that moved too fast for outsiders — especially adults — to break. Rap was a form of aural graffiti, just as the graffiti style wars were the visual counterpart of the fevered sonic competition among rappers and D.J.'s."

arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Nothing weird with that. A big part of the fun of bombing graffiti is the thrill of breaking the law. And a lot of kids do steal the spray cans, because they're quite expensive for a teenager. Of course I'm only speaking of my personal experience here in Finland, I can't tell how it was in the NYC in the beginning.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Why on earth would anyone take anything written by this man.....

http://www.detnews.com/pix/2003/05/11/a15kalellis.jpg

....seriously?

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

He looks like the former mayor of Helsinki! Who, by the way, launched a campaign against on graffiti, where anyone who snitched on a graffiti painter would get a reward. The campaign ended in an embarrassment, when a local paper revealed that the fine you get for bombing was smaller than the promised reward. So you could do some painting, then turn yourself in. Har har!

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

And a lot of kids do steal the spray cans

Yeah, yeah, I'm not disagreeing about that, but that article was really pushing a view of hip-hop culture as an multi-faceted expression of the joy of stealing/breaking the law. C'mon. Does anyone think the music of Grandmaster Flash "celebrated law-breaking" as the article writes?

I don't remember reading such a blanket view of rap music == stolen music in a very long time. I still think it's weird.

arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

The annoying thing about the Style Wars article was the smug "New York used to be dangerous; now you can enjoy those days in the comfort of your own home" comments.

That said, I still wanna own the DVD.

hstencil, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

But HStencil isn't that sort of true/inevitable?

I'm astonished BTW that the article in question (the subject of this thread) was published in a major city newspaper. It's the kind of beyond-parody through-the-looking-glass stuff I see all the time in college and small town papers but rarely in a major paper. I mean there's plenty of stuff in the Chicago Tribune that's tone-deaf and oblivious but not to that ridiculous an extent. It's especially weird in a majority-black city.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah it is, amateurist, but why point it out? It's obvious and uninteresting. Duh of course you can enjoy it in the comfort of your own home, it's a DVD!

hstencil, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, do people really go "I wanna watch Gladiator because I wanna experience the decadence of the Roman Empire in the comfort of my own home?"

hstencil, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

If you have to ask . . .

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

well the short answer to my question, as well of that of the editorial above, is that some people still think black people are scary.

hstencil, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, do people really go "I wanna watch Gladiator because I wanna experience the decadence of the Roman Empire in the comfort of my own home?"
Who says I need to Watch Gladiator to do that?

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I was going to try to defend him, but "satanic. . . navel contemplation"?!

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 13 May 2003 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

You should hear it played backwards!

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I did...
...it sounds like a remix of DC Talks "Colored People"

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

To be fair, regarding Amateurist's "major city newspaper" comment, it was just a guest editorial. The only person it reflects badly upon is the author; I'm pretty sure the majority of the News' readership is able to make the distinction. Also, I found it less troubling when I realized it was just offered as one side of a point-counterpoint; the other side being taken by the mayor of the city. I mean Ted freakin' Nugent has written guest editorials for The Wall Street Journal on more than one occasion, contributions of high comedic value.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

A right wing gun nut talking to a crowd of republican suits. Amazing amount of ideological wiggle room there. < /SARCASM >

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)


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