"Tasteful" music

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Is there a greater critical kiss of death then the application of this adjective to a piece of music? For sheer car-crash thrills, I would rather hear "awful" music than anything "tasteful", but maybe that's just me.

What does "tasteful" mean to you? Examples welcome.

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

As a perjorative? Lacking brashness, essentially. Not risking dislike by people with 'taste'. It doesn't have to mean quiet - yes Zero 7 are tasteful, but so are the White Stripes. I think it can also be applied to a lot of canonical stuff, where it's less of a negative, it just denotes a slight unadventurousness on the part of the consumer even when the music is up to par.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Its opposite is 'cheesy' - still used as a negative tho.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Who do you think defines these "people with taste", Tico? I know what you mean, and I've met people that fall into this category, but how much of a generalization is it?

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd like to revise what I posted above to clarify this for myself - I would rather hear "awful" music than any music defined as "tasteful" by someone else.

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Obviously, I think a lot of the music I listen to is tasteful, because it is in keeping with my own tastes. In this case, it's not a negative quality.

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

"Tasteful" sounds like a word that a classical audiphile magazine would use to describe Sting.

dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Calling something "tasteful" is like damning it with faint praise. It's kind of like calling a painting "competent". It sounds like it should be a compliment, but it always comes across as a dig.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Surely there are people that go for "tasteful", no?

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh it's a whopping generalisation. I think what defines them is maybe a faith that the more you consume music the more you understand it - or that selecting music is equivalent to understanding it. Something like that anyway.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)


i used the term "tasteful", recently on ILX. i was saying that the new Blur record is more tasteful than 13. more relaxed, less of a knowingly "busy" production y'know? i meant it as a compliment in that instance, but i'm sure there are albums that are too tasteful for their own good. some bands are best when they are trying desperately to pull stuff off and making fools of themselves. like mansun, for instance.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, 'tasteful' maps an area of presumed intentions bounded by 'not making a fool of oneself' but also 'not risking pissing the listener off'.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Tasteful is as useful as "good", and both really only make sense when you know the angle of the writer. To me, it does come across as smug, even moreso than just "good".

dleone (dleone), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

"tastefully" is more often used as a positive though - such-a-song addresses such-a-subject tastefully, for instance.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:28 (twenty-two years ago)

tasteful = safe, tame, unlikely to give offense, good background music, boring

See also: lite, smooth, muzak

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Is it safe to assume that a more committed music listener expects to be challenged/surprised by the music they listen to? What's great about pleasingly familiar melodies, guitar solos that don't outstay their welcome, etc?

This doesn't mean that their music has to be "highbrow" or difficult, btw - I think pop music and "tastefulness" are miles apart. It's all relative. You could argue that John Coltrane is more "tasteful" than Justin Timberlake, or vice versa.

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

too much tastefulness, not enough tastiness

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

The problem is exactly that tasteful = middlebrow, which is the worst brow of all. it says it uses canonical signifiers of quality as opposed to lowbrow which doesn't care about quality and highbrow which uses radical signifiers, both of which are inherently more interesting.

Tasteful=dinner party music

Blech.

Jacob (Jacob), Thursday, 15 May 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

middlebrow, which is the worst brow of all
http://magic1053.com/images/sesame/bert.jpg

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 15 May 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Tasteful can be wonderful..... Zero 7, the epitome of tastefulness released a fantastic debut album (and an even better volume in the 'Another Late Night' series).... enough said, really.

russ t, Thursday, 15 May 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I think "tasteful" can be a very positive adjective, and I suspect anyone who says otherwise of extreme rockism. I completely dig Bebel Gilberto and Arto Lindsay and (as I've said many times) the Aluminum Group and the occasional Sade, and all of those are very tasteful and stylish and restrained, but hardly boring or soulless.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 15 May 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

and all of those are very tasteful and stylish and restrained

But Kenan what is "tasteful" meaning here? Why not just say "stylish and restrained" (which can = great music I totally agree!). It's the extra work that the t-word is doing that's interesting - why use it?

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 15 May 2003 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Why demonize yet another English word?

And also what I'm kind of addressing the idea that music has to be balls-out to be any good. Bullocks.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 15 May 2003 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I called Limp Bizkit and Korn "overly tasteful" in a recent article...

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 15 May 2003 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah but you're addressing that with "restrained" surely. "Tasteful" is a weird word to use as an adjective because it's immediately bringing your/someone else's 'tastes' into it. I don't think it needs demonising exactly. It's kind of like "influence" in the Mark S sense in that I can't think of a time it could be used when other more exact words (positive or negative) wouldn't work better.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 15 May 2003 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno. I've never used the word in a review, nor had the urge to, probably for the exact reasons you're describing. Neither have I thought about it very much.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 15 May 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

"But now that they've paired with mega-modern-rock producer Ross Robinson (he the king of overly tasteful rock like Limp Bizkit and Korn) for BPIB, the Blood Brothers have made an effort to -- gasp! -- play melodies!"

I'm now trying to remember exactly what I meant by that phrase, and I'm not really sure. Maybe I meant "overly mediated," or something along those lines. To me, "tasteful" = cautious, even in a wreckless way. Something that's "tasteful" is considered, pondered, etc.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 15 May 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

"Yeah, 'tasteful' maps an area of presumed intentions bounded by 'not making a fool of oneself' but also 'not risking pissing the listener off'."

i'd pretty much go along with this as a good definition of tasteful. i set up a thread recently about polished production / over production which may have some cross-over with this. like i said then, i'd take it on an artist-by-artist basis. some bands you want to be slick and, ahem, tasteful (say, craig david and lemon jelly), others benefit from being sloppy/over-ambitious etc.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 15 May 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

let's talk about over-production/polished production

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 15 May 2003 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't think of a time it could be used when other more exact words (positive or negative) wouldn't work better

See also: good, bad, ugly. Again, these kinds of words only make sense if you're familiar with the writer's "tastes".

dleone (dleone), Thursday, 15 May 2003 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm a big fan of tasteful [though i listen to music that is non-tasteful more often.]

max eider of the jazz butcher was the epitome of tasteful guitar solos: partytime, girlfriend, falling in love, etc.

i much prefer the tasteful side of le tigre to the raw side. i can hardly believe it, but i think i even prefer it to bikini kill - probably just the doppler effect [le tigre hasn't had red shift yet].

belle and sebastian's vocal line melodies are so tasteful - more complex than nick drake, less predictable than the kinks, as catchy as the divine comedy but never insipid as hannon's sometimes are.

same goes for prince's vocal lines. huge vocal hooks are woven tastefully into the fabric.

steely dan's chord substitutions are another good touchstone of tastefulness. rich, and reminiscent of things without calling them directly to mind. then they are draped in gaudy, overdone backing vocals and saxaphones, and support those oblique lyrics. the same thing happens with bonzo dog - neil innes is tasteful, and viv stanshall takes it over the top.

a few things you'll always find in the cupboards and under the countertops of the tasteful kitchen:
dry humor
references to a favorite song, instead of covering it
perfect vocal control at lower intensities e.g. q tip

i don't think it really has much overlap with the idea of personal tastes, and only somewhat with style and restraint. mark knopfler's solos on money for nothing and sultans of swing are both totally his style, only the latter is tasteful; it's not really restrained either, it's exuberant.

mig, Thursday, 15 May 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I never use this word to describe music, but a friend does all the time. To him I think it means affected as in faux/coy sophistication.

disco stu (disco stu), Thursday, 15 May 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

it's great to have taste ...

Jay K (Jay K), Thursday, 15 May 2003 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

okay, explanation: that was just something i said to myself one day 5 years ago when i looked at a pile of my cd's containing music by the likes of johnny cash, guru, daft punk, labradford and early howie b. narcissistic, but aren't we all?

Jay K (Jay K), Thursday, 15 May 2003 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i *don't* think "restrained" does the same work as "tasteful" - the latter does seem to steer us towards some understand of what is being restrained and why. i don't think the body of things that "taste" might refer to is so amorphous as to render "tasteful" meaningless. the best parts of this comp are when the bits they couldn't hold back manage to clap, fart and wiggle against the 'airy' reverby bits. i wrote that when angry and sad and 'tasteful' was definitely being used pejoratively, because what i hear in the record is rejection, judgement, distancing. 'cheeseless' would work better insofar as we're using "tasteful" to describe a lack. i think Tico's "selecting as understanding" thing is key: in all the records we listen to, we're inevitably hearing tastes at work, i want to hear the ones that cut off the fewest possibilities. or at least don't let me get in earshot of the guillotine *thwak chop*.

mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Thursday, 15 May 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

understanding. and "the guillotine's *thwak chop*" (otherwise it sounds like my ear just got chopped off in a van gough stylee).

mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Thursday, 15 May 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

(do you ever get that feeling after posting something that you are about to have your mind changed by someone smarter that yourself? an imminent ticolation, if you will..)

mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Thursday, 15 May 2003 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Naturally,

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Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 May 2003 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

cheeseless is a great way to describe tasteful.

disco stu (disco stu), Thursday, 15 May 2003 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Its opposite is 'cheesy' - still used as a negative tho.
I prefer my music to be tastefully cheesy rather than excessive in its restraint.

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 16 May 2003 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...
God, I used to be so WEIRD.

AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Thursday, 10 June 2004 04:52 (twenty-one years ago)

"used to be"

you set yourself up for that one (Leee), Thursday, 10 June 2004 05:28 (twenty-one years ago)


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