Nick Hornby - the worst music critic ever?

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ok i'm possibly shooting ducks in a very small barrel, and to be truthful I a) really liked Fever Pitch (i'm an arsenal fan) b) quite liked high fidelity c) liked nothing since.

I picked up 31 songs in the bookstore the other day and leafed through it. I haven't read it all but what i did read was really gut cleanchingly bad. I thought the stuff on Royskopp and the Avalanches was a paraody of himself. In case if it was. its very clever stuff and i take it all back. I also put forward his review of Radiohead's Kid A (was it in the New Yorker? i can't remember) as the worst record review ever. "i can't understand the lyrics! its only for little boys who have a lot of time to listen to it."(paraphrased). therefore denoting anything complex and requiring effort is shit.

I know I shouldnt get angry but the man gets paid for this shit. Ican't think of anybody worse. Not your cigarettes or your wells or even those people who write for rolling stone.

That said I think the 31 Songs thing is for charity. Why do so many charity things turn out shit. Maybe i'll buy it. i feel bad now.

gallantseagull, Friday, 16 May 2003 03:20 (twenty-two years ago)

don't feel bad, and don't spend money on that fucking thing.

M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 16 May 2003 04:03 (twenty-two years ago)

and please stop calling him a "critic," you're only encouraging him

M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 16 May 2003 04:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's amusing how much he's hated. I did flip through that awful awful 31 Bands thing when I was housesitting and it was so incredibly stupid I couldn't help but laugh. I can't imagine why anyone who oh I don't ACTUALLY liked music would give Hornby's opinions a moments thought though.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 16 May 2003 04:28 (twenty-two years ago)

to keep ourselves armed against when someone inevitably asks us what we think of it?

M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 16 May 2003 04:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha I haven't had anyone ask me about his "critical" opinion yet (this doesn't really count). Who actually TALKS about music critics? ;)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 16 May 2003 04:33 (twenty-two years ago)

more like your clueless relatives who say things like "so you're the music critic--what do you think of Celine Dion?"

M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 16 May 2003 04:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i won't buy it. i felt bad starting this thread because yeah he is just to easy but he DOES put himself out there as a critic. He reviews. He gets paid for it. Or he did. Its the sort of thing that gives people who a) write about pop music and b) actually like pop music a really bad name.

Its also bad for arsenal fans.

gallantseagull, Friday, 16 May 2003 04:39 (twenty-two years ago)

there have been a few threads on this topic, too, btw.

M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 16 May 2003 05:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Arsenal are bad losers.

David A. (Davant), Friday, 16 May 2003 05:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Matthew Good is an Arsenal fan.

David A. (Davant), Friday, 16 May 2003 05:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Therefore Nick Hornby is Matthew Good served on a sour grape platter.

David A. (Davant), Friday, 16 May 2003 05:56 (twenty-two years ago)

A perfect syllogism.

David A. (Davant), Friday, 16 May 2003 05:57 (twenty-two years ago)

has sinker got any hate left?

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 16 May 2003 07:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked Fever Pitch too. I haven't read his music stuff, I don't doubt it might be shit though, I still find it fucking hilarious the way he is held up as the Prince of Darkness, forever scheming against the good guys, by a few heads around here.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 16 May 2003 07:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm afraid I have read this book all the way through, and I found it pretty sickening. He comes across as such an arrogant and patronising no-music-taste-having git all the way through.

Worst examples:
- Comparing the book itself to the wholesomeness of organic food ('You pay more for less').
- Calling himself a 'genius' for writing High Fidelity, in answer to critics who'd dared to dislike it.
- Being disappointed in his son for his medical condition.

And that's before you even get onto the actual music-related writing, which as rightly noted by all posters above, is shameful, possibly the worst ever.

He is almost the negative image of Julian Cope (who I described on the headheritage thread as possibly the best music journalist there ever was).

M Carty (mj_c), Friday, 16 May 2003 08:17 (twenty-two years ago)

The problem is he's probably the most successful music critic in the world - which is why we don't just ignore him.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 16 May 2003 08:52 (twenty-two years ago)

oh come on, that's not remotely true

James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 16 May 2003 08:58 (twenty-two years ago)

you guys are just jealous because he gets paid to do what you do for free.

lurker, Friday, 16 May 2003 09:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Probably the richest. But he didn't get rich through being a music critic - he got rich by telling us how hard it is being a middle class Arsenal fan. Oh diddums.

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Friday, 16 May 2003 09:01 (twenty-two years ago)

"I crush him like peanut!" -

James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 16 May 2003 09:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Well yes, a good music critic would be able to provide a meaningful response to the Celine Dion question.

And of course, we "hate" Hornby because he gets paid to do what we get paid to do.

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 16 May 2003 09:07 (twenty-two years ago)

"we"

James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 16 May 2003 09:09 (twenty-two years ago)

OK James, I'll revise that - he's probably the most successful *fan* in the world. Which is even harder to take.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 16 May 2003 09:24 (twenty-two years ago)

"Your usual table Mr. Jagger?" -

James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 16 May 2003 09:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, he's probably the only "music critic" of whom most people have heard. Therein lies the problem.

He might be successful financially, but aesthetically he is wanting.

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 16 May 2003 09:28 (twenty-two years ago)

he is crap, and I have to say (unlike with say Mr. Wenner) I have never read a piece of music journalism/criticism by him I have liked.

James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 16 May 2003 09:29 (twenty-two years ago)

If NH was doing what I'd get paid to do it would be a fitting punishment I think.

Marcello nails what I've been trying to get at - in his native land at least he's set a definition for what being a fan/critic is. No-nonsense, passionate on occasion and apologetic on others, fundamentally something one grows out of.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 16 May 2003 09:30 (twenty-two years ago)

much more depressing for me was the Rick Moody Magnetic Fields piece in the new Dave Eggers' girlfriend magazine, if only cuz I REALLY used to like his writing. also people taking Nick Hornby too seriously as a critic doesn't depress me nearly as much as people taking Nick Hornby too seriously as a novelist.

James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 16 May 2003 09:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I heard Rick Moody on Private Passions on Radio 3 last weekend and ended up feeling sorry for him. He picked one of Zappa's orchestral pieces and then Michael Berkeley - who had been patronising him throughout the programme - jumped on him (not literally) and demanded to know why he couldn't get into contemporary classical music, and forced him to apologise for making "inaccurate" comments about Mozart (i.e. RM didn't like Mozart all that much). MB is a terrible snob, the sort of person who ends up driving people away from "difficult" music (see also the Wire in general heheh).

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 16 May 2003 09:42 (twenty-two years ago)

OTM re comments about The Wire Marcello, but it does have some stellar writers (Simon, Kodwo, Sherburne, Tompkins, Hsu, Shapiro) who write things that really enthuse the reader, it's just that some there seem to draw a veil of unnecessary snobbery over music that should be available for everyone, also there's this feeling of a new canon/orthodoxy being created yet masquerading as something revolutionary...
Anyway on the Hornby issue, he sucks... we know this... he's dull and I hated his books due to their preoccupation with men hiding behind obsessions to prevent engagement with real life/emotions. Jesus Christ, I for one would be far more emotionally stunted than I am without music! I liked the movie of High Fidelity though, as I'm a bit of a fan of John Cusack and Jack Black, but that's about it. My favourite quote about Hornby came up in The Independent a while ago in which someone (i forget who) said of his time at The New Yorker ", to paraphrase: "Surely The New Yorker's resident rock critic is about as useful a position as being the Daily Star's opera writer." Made me smile.

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 May 2003 10:40 (twenty-two years ago)

The good news for all you posters is that the book itself hasn't done very well. After all, who in their right mind would want to pay 12.99 for music journalism (even the good stuff) when you can get it in magazines for a lot less or on here (for free)? It is typical of Penguin Publishers to knock out this book thinking 'Oh yeah, Nick Hornby: that will sell' and so pretty pleasing that it hasn't. This is the same publisher remember who are paying Madonna a lot of money for a series of children's books 'with a moral theme' (I kid you not) and who have let Nick Kent's Dark Stuff (one of the best books of music journalism ever) go out of print. Sigh.

Kim Tortoise, Friday, 16 May 2003 10:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I should chime in here and say that I got the copy I read at a massive discount as my girlfriend works in a bookshop. I would never have paid the full price for it!

M Carty (mj_c), Friday, 16 May 2003 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Give it a few months and it'll be nestling between the Edwina Currie diaries and 'Together - the Appleton Sisters story' in your local bargain book store (hopefully)

Kim Tortoise, Friday, 16 May 2003 11:16 (twenty-two years ago)

and the word of the week is:

piffle.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 16 May 2003 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Then again, I don't think Hornby is the world's worst music critic - look up the Guardian 1999/2000 archives to remind yourself (if you have the stomach for it) just how horrendously bad a writer Tom Cox was/is.

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 16 May 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Give it a few months and it'll be nestling between the Edwina Currie diaries and 'Together - the Appleton Sisters story' in your local bargain book store (hopefully)

If Nick Hornby wrote about his secret affair with John Major and how his record company forced him to abort their secret love child, that might be worth reading. Or at least more interesting than High Fidelity or this book...

Nicole (Nicole), Friday, 16 May 2003 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Well yes, a good music critic would be able to provide a meaningful response to the Celine Dion question.

is that supposed to mean something specific toward me, Marcello?

M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 16 May 2003 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

How can you say anything meaningful about Celine Dion? Particulary when the woman has made an attempt at DANCEHALL!!! Beyond fucking ridiculous... I'm w/ you Matos and you haven't mentioned the Luomo album for at least a day from what I can gather!

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 May 2003 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not angry if it is, I'm just curious

M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 16 May 2003 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

After hearing the Celine Dion attempting to toast, then it's very difficult to get angry about anything at all - the world takes on something an endearing Pythonesque surreality! I can't remember what the record is called but it's so ludicrous that it quite literally made my cry with laughter... you have to hear it...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 16 May 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

>>>How can you say anything meaningful about Celine Dion?<<

Like this, maybe?:


http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0221/kogan.php

And Simon Frith did a great piece about her in the Voice a couple years ago, as well. The real question is, how can somebody asking the question at the top of this post not realize they're spouting a completely ignorant platitude? Kogan says Celine's new album (which I sent my copy of to him without listening to it, which maybe I shouldn't have) is one of the best albums he's heard so far this year (and he's heard LOTS of albums this year). Personally, I think the idea of her doing dancehall sounds really INTERESTING. Not sure whether I'd LIKE it, but she's generally been at her best on upbeat dance stuff; best song I ever heard by her was quite possibly "Unison," back in the early-to-mid '90s, which had a rap in it. So why SHOULDN'T she try dancehall? Can't be that much duller than Sean Paul doing it, for crissakes!

chuck, Friday, 16 May 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

dave is indie through and through chuck.

he also forgot to mention B** W***** but i suspect he doesn't like him.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 16 May 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Duh chuck, haven't you heard that white people should never try to make rap or dancehall music? Also, they can't dance. What, haven't you seen Bringing Down The House?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 16 May 2003 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

or Lethal Weapon?

James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 17 May 2003 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

grrr...I brought Celine Dion up again because I wasn't sure whether Marcello was making fun of my statement or whether he was just throwing a statement out there. and I didn't say it's impossible to talk about Celine Dion intelligently in the first place, I was trying to come up with an example of a mainstream-ish performer that would be typical of an artist a relative who doesn't pay attention to music might ask you about if you happened to be a rock critic, i.e. someone very mainstream that rightly or wrongly doesn't tend to occupy a lot of the critical dialogue. it was a tossed-out, top-of-head example; the idea was (in relation to the original topic), why would I even care about Nick Hornby? and my answer was, because he's becoming an undeniable cultural presence even if I don't like him--not unlike Celine Dion.

M Matos (M Matos), Saturday, 17 May 2003 01:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave is hardly "indie through and through" - he's Mis-teeq's number one fan, fer chrissakes! Finally, Dave and I find something on which to disagree... and about time. Can anyone point me to this Celine Dion dancehall tune?

philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Saturday, 17 May 2003 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's on that album she did with Phil Spector the label buried

James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 17 May 2003 04:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Subthread...
TS: Hornby vs Crouch...FITE

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 17 May 2003 04:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, Nick. Hornby by name, Hornby by nature.

Fever Pitch remains one of the worst books I've ever read, and I went into it open, convinced it's success meant there was something worth reading there, hoping it would explain my father's (to me) inexplicable obession with the sport, and came out raging. He couldn't illuminate anything if you handed him the sun. It was painful, in a lot of places; you hear his brain clanking away behind almost every paragraph. For such an anti-intellectual writer, he seems to spend a lot of his time "thinking." His inability to evoke time, places or people means lends his style a vagueness that I suspect is part of his appeal, in that it's requires no leap of imagination to enter his world, and there's no alienating sense of otherness. He's very good at communicating bewilderment, though, which seems to be his natural state ((My girlfriend left. I can't understand it. I told her, like the others, that of course she was important and I'd be happy to discuss our problems but later, because the match was starting in 3 hours and I was running late. She just walked out. Women are strange. They don't collect records like I do, and they're not pleased when you take them on dates to football matches, even if it's the Cup Final. Arsenal did ok, by the way, but I'm hoping next season will be better.....). After, I remember coming across an introduction he wrote for someone else's book where he praised the writer in question for his honesty. But it's inadvisable to be too honest, he added, if you want to keep the reader on side. Says it all really. No wonder Julie Burchill likes him.

The High Fidelity movie was ok, and so was About a Boy, but I've no doubt 31 Songs is screeching. It's just his revenge for being a failed music journalist in his 20s. Which he still is. I mean, I've no problem with him not listening to Suicide anymore, or not liking Kid A; criticising him on that level is missing the point as absolutely as he does. It's the application of his dull, taxonomic little mind to things of beauty (that Avalanches song, for instance) that bothers me. Show him a Van Gogh, he'll talk about the frame. It's what he does.

But I wouldn't worry.

History's waiting, broom and carpet in hand.

Jamie Conway (Jamie Conway), Saturday, 17 May 2003 08:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave isn't even slightly indie!

Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 17 May 2003 09:20 (twenty-two years ago)

i'd really like to know what he said about the Avalanches and Royksopp

stevem (blueski), Saturday, 17 May 2003 10:53 (twenty-two years ago)

"I've no problem with him not listening to Suicide anymore"

Me neither, but the tone of the essay was "anyone who listens to 'difficult' or 'experimantal' music (like suicide) has had an easy life". i found that objectionable. if he'd said, "i don't listen to difficult stuff like suicide any more because...etc" that would have been cool, but the assumption he made that everyone's listening patterns will be the same as his own was pretty stupid. and i liked High Fidelity and Fever Pitch.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Saturday, 17 May 2003 11:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i hate celine dion,but i have to hear this dancehall track
whats it called?

robin (robin), Saturday, 17 May 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

He's not that kind of writer, Kilian - even if he had lucked his way into the music press at a young age, I doubt he'd ever had morphed into a Reynolds style theorist, though it might have been funny watching him try. But more probably painful.

His dislike of experimental music is at least honest, possibly based on a gut reaction and as such, hard to fault, there being a lot to be said for gut reactions to music. And the "easy life" assertion is about as objectionable as any other generalisation pop journos habitually make, (though the popularity of say, jazz in Eastern Europe undermines that one a bit)

I still think it's better criticising the unstinting shitness of his writing though.

And what did you like about Fever Pitch? I'm genuinely curious.

Jamie Conway (Jamie Conway), Sunday, 18 May 2003 07:08 (twenty-two years ago)

It's the application of his dull, taxonomic little mind to things of beauty (that Avalanches song, for instance) that bothers me.

That boy needs therapy.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 18 May 2003 07:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i heard a review of that however many songs it is book on the national programme a few weeks ago (national programme : US equiv is NPR, UK - radio 3 or no maybe i mean 4) & the reviewer made it sound predictably crappy....anyway the only surprising thing that happened was, ok i knew they'd use this review as a cue to play a piece of music as feat. in the bk. & i was idly sorta trying to guess what it'd be....probably some decent but way-to-hell-hacked '60s soul song, seems most likely right? but no it was that avalanches song!
big fucken deal tho, i don't like that song.

duane, Sunday, 18 May 2003 08:05 (twenty-two years ago)

whoah! i've been in bed sick with flu for a couple of days, but wish I'd been around to witness myself being referred to as "indie through and through"... has made me laugh my coughing and snuffly socks off... and thanks for posting that celine piece chuck, was genuinely a good read, but i guess you have to have a certain amount of respect for what she does in order to come up with stuff like that. to be perfectly honest, i don't have much, so it would be very difficult for me to do something like that - all down to perspective that i don't have. the dancehall track she did was hilarious and my stepmother has it somewhere so i'll have to find it and will post deets at some stage... chuck it is, trust me, really not interesting in any way, other than for reasons of sheer icongruity, as an example of records that should NEVER have been made and in terms of sheer comedy value. had spector been allowed to finish the album he worked on with her, that would have been interesting... again, maybe not my cup of tea, but at least you could see the reason for it and why it might work. and i'm sorry, all i saw in matos' comment was a little honesty, in that some of us have certain areas of expertise within music, rather than being authorities on everything and celine dion isn't one of his (or mine) and why should she be?

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 18 May 2003 08:52 (twenty-two years ago)

also wrong about sean paul btw, and re the comment that white people should not make rap or dancehall music, that wasn't what i was saying at all i was just saying celine dion shouldn't...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 18 May 2003 09:16 (twenty-two years ago)

It bothers me as much as unwashed dishes piling up, or getting the wrong queue in the local post office and not as much as say, US foreign policy or whether I'll have enough money to hit Copenhagen and St Petersburg in summer, Kenan.

Hornby spent most of Fever Pitch in counselling. Didn't seem to do him much good, unless crushing dullness is what they're prescribing for dysfunction these days.

Jamie Conway (Jamie Conway), Sunday, 18 May 2003 12:09 (twenty-two years ago)


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