Mitchell Froom, whereforartthou

For your proposed counterexamples -- Ballard can go to hell in a handbasket, I hate his guts. Lillywhite did an underrated job on the recent string of Morrissey albums, but these days that's the only quality I can think of for the man. Mutt Lange produced AC/DC and Def Leppard and Bob Rock produced my favorite Cult album -- all definite plusses ;-) but these days I don't think much of their work. Eno I'm back and forth on, and Godrich I really only know through a couple of acts (but the fact that he willingly produces Travis is a sickening thought, truly). However, aside from Ballard all can claim at least a few acts that I enjoy greatly (in whole or in part), whereas based on your list for your fave four -- and I won't pretend that's everything they've done, but it certainly matches with what I remember of their credits! -- I'd be more apt to fall gently to sleep.

Like The Man With The Blue Guitar? That one's great!

"...you've got a GATED REVERB'ed snare drum. It's called 'gated', because a noise gate(opens when a certain threshold is reached,closed otherwise) is usualy involved in it."

They're definitely an eighties thing -- all the production work Sean mentioned above which Lillywhite did for U2, Simple Minds and Big Country featured it somewhere, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Pretty huge backlash against it in the nineties, everyone from Kevin Shields to Matt Cameron railing against it. I am trying to think of what the ultimate 'gated snare drum' song would be, though. Anyone want to throw in?

And to the fox of pine -- ew. That damn "Put Down Your Gun" song along.

BTW, This isn't the old Bowie "Heroes" vocal trick made mass- available, is it?

From where I am, based on the bands they tend to produce alone, fuck no. About as interesting as a dead mongoose. I agree with you that the RAWK dudes' recent stuff is slop, but making me choose between that and the snorefests you're favoring is like saying to me, "So, an eternity of crap or an eternity of shit, which would you like to wallow in more?"

On the other hand, maybe you don't like more considered, experimental production, which is fair

Lord. If you're assuming that, you assume *far* too much -- disagreement with favored sacred cows does not automatically direct opposition, thank you. Two words -- Phill Brown. Late Talk Talk, Orang, Walkabouts, Anja Garbarek -- it doesn't hurt that these are artists I think are far superior to your sample AAA crew, but I think what he does with them is utterly brilliant.

As for experimental production, just about anything the Bomb Squad did in their heyday makes what the Froom crowd think is cutting-edge seem hamhanded...

but I think you'd have to be narcoleptic to fall asleep during a Cibo Matto album

Pleasant, not deathless.

or certainly Pearl Jam and X

X died years ago, active corpse though. Pearl Jam is *incredibly* easy to fall asleep to.

if not Los Lobos as well.

BAH! Los Fucking Lobos -- always were, always will be a tendentious, tedious bunch of motherfuckers.

But since I am a wee young un, I will bow to the superior experience of my elders

Uh, no, don't do that. Stand up for what you think! Just be aware that not everyone will agree with you on the definition of quality, after all. ;-)

Great Froom production: Los Lobos' Colossal Head. Ned = grouch.

But anyway, I guess we just fundamentally disagree on what shit is then. I dunno... Talk Talk always seemed to be so fussy and overly complicated for no apparent reason--an inconsequential footnote version of Duran Duran for people who like Japan and David Sylvian-- the epitomy of pretentious, egotistical, synth-patching, soulless wanking.

And if you're talking about The Bomb Squad, as in the producing team from the 80's and early 90's, then I think maybe you haven't really heard much of Froom/Blake/Brion et al's production. I really have no idea where the connection to that is made--maybe someone like Amon Tobin, or even the Massive/Soul II Soul/Nellee Hooper thing, but certainly not the Froom squad. If anything, Froom is more baroque- oriented, more George Martin or Harry Nilsson, and share a common thread with contemporary producers like Patrick McCarthy. A much keener interest in lo-fi and messiness.

They're hardly sacred cows, as my tastes tend to run more towards the electronic side of things these days--Thievery Corporation, Truby Trio, Plastikman. But I haven't really met many contemporary musicians who dislike Froom or Brion that much--they may find them tedious after a spell, in the some way someone could find Messaien or Arvo Part or someone like that tedious (NOT COMPARING THE TWO, mind you)... but no one truly dismisses their work. So this is interesting to me. Of course, most of the people who I've met who dislike that crew either eschew complicated pop music in general or don't like anything that isn't blared out of speakers at 110db or supercatchy or immediately pretentious. And I'm not putting you in those categories, so don't get all huffy again.

I can't say that I'm a fan of Anja Garbarek, again, the whole precious, saying little because you've got little to say, faux- deepness that runs in her dad runs in her as well. So cheesy! Stina Nordenstam on Prozac, Dido with less charm, and perhaps ultimately Emiliana Torrini without as much trip-hop. As it is, I think maybe if you were to have listened to more of those producers' ouevre, maybe this discussion would be more interesting, as it is, it seems like I've heard more of your side than you of mine. Which is fair, I suppose--generation gap and all, so thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and thanks for the round-the-clock quick responses!

Early Talk Talk, unquestionably -- but it sounds like you haven't heard Spirit of Eden or Laughing Stock. ;-) Trust me, my friend.

Froom is more baroque-oriented, more George Martin or Harry Nilsson< /I>

Precisely his problem, not in terms of his role models but the bland results -- he adds nothing to what has come before except to suck the energy and potential beauty out of such approaches. If he is interested in lo-fi and messiness, the results have such a self- conscious clangour -- "Hey! Look at me try! Wow, isn't that neat?" Yeah, great, Froom, whatever, VH1 needs more fodder -- and again, he works for the most part with such *boring* musicians.

Regarding complicated pop music -- all depends how you define 'pop,' surely. Somebody mentioned Rufus Wainwright up above -- I find his entire aesthetic utterly useless, downright obnoxious even. He revels in being an accomplished musician (or trying to be) and produces completely bland results, sliding off my eardrums like they were made of Teflon. Eric Matthews is another example of somebody who tries and fails. It may be 'complicated,' but it's not particularly interesting from where I sit -- however, neither do I think that such approaches * define* what complicated pop music can be, an important point.

Let's revive this! The Mitchell Froom Revival Starts HERE!!!

Seriously, two points, one a question:

Why does AMG refer to his "tape loop-driven fantasias" when talking about his work w/ Ron Sexsmith? Does he use a Chamberlain?

Secondly, Froom def. fell way in love with the clangy drum sound. It seemed to have started with the "industrial" Suzanne Vega record, b/c if you listen to Richard Thompson's Rumor and Sigh and the one after it which wasn't very good, the clanginess arrived in spades.

Also, how in god's name could people talk about gated drum sounds, ask, "what's the ultimate gated drum sound?" and NOT mention Phil Collins and "In the Air Tonight"? Seriously, people!!

mitchell froom uses a chamberlain, as well as a mellotron (I think, or mayb ehe just uses mellotron samples). i forgot he worked with ron sexsmith. i have no idea what or who he is producing these days. I was a big fan for a couple of years but I feel he kind of has one or two tricks and they get a bit tired...I still like the work he did on Mercury (the AMC album) even though they didn't (or some of them didn't). I was told he has a 'tyranny of the band' attitude. I'm not sure what that means

also actually some of the things I attribute to froom might actually be tchad blake's doing, not sure; they worked together a lot. blake did a very good job on some lisa germano stuff later on though that sounds very restrained.

my favorite froom freakout production wise has to be those latin playboys albums though (and los lobos' kiko). those things are a rummage sale of sounds but they're so fucking good.

Okay, this is making me feel suddenly very old, but: Ruby Froom should be, like, practically grown now, right?

This is like when I noticed the Cocteau Twins' daughter had her own record

Cafe Flesh!

original music by Froom, written by Jerry Stahl - totally bizarre new wave apocalypse softcore porn

Ruby Froom? Would that be the spawn of Suzanne Vega and Mitchell Froom conceived in the back kitchen at Tom's Diner?

she is their kid, yes...i think she'd be a teenager now.

I gather that vega and froom had a really nasty divorce but now I can't remember why I thought that

From around 1988 until around the mid 90s, Mitchell Froom was the best producer in the entire world. Brilliant work with Crowded House, Elvis Costello, Paul McCartney and Suzanne Vega.

AND I LIVED IN HIS DAD'S HOUSE FOR A WHILE!!! (i must have proclaimed this by now)

Mitchell Froom produced that Daniel Powter album that had the inescapable "Cause you had a Bad Day..." song on it.

From AMG:

Froom and Vega began dating several months after the record's completion, and they wound up marrying; their daughter, Ruby, was born in 1994, and Vega naturally took some time off from music. She returned in 1996 with Nine Objects of Desire, again with Froom in the producer's chair, though his approach was somewhat less radical this time out; in terms of Vega's subject matter, there was a newfound physical sensuality borne of her marriage and childbirth experiences.

All was not well for long, however; Froom began seeing Ally McBeal singer Vonda Shepard, and he and Vega split up in August 1998.

Vonda Shepard ruined this sacred union!

Did he ever produce Vonda Shepard?

Ruby Froom is 13.

This is her Facebook photo: http://www.facebook.com/s.php?k=100000080&id=569611465

http://profile.ak.facebook.com/profile5/784/82/q569611465_6193.jpg

I know, I know.

Did he ever produce Vonda Shepard?

Sadly, yes.

jaymc stop stalking teenagers

vonda shepard was such a scourge on music. she may well be a nice lady, I dunno

I'm digging through Richard Thompson's much-maligned Mirror Blue and gotta say: it's pretty good. Froom's patented clunky percussion courtesy of Pete Thomas, all sorts of accordion and keyboard thingamajigs, and some excellent songs by Thompson such as "King of Bohemia" and "MGB-GT."

That people wigged about the production when it came out is a sign of how far people's ears have stretch -- it sounds pretty tame these days.

Oh right I forgot about that, we discussed it on another thread: I am on Suzanne Vega's side in all matters of everything, and the fact that anyone would wind up leaving her for Vonda Shepard is like ... zowee.

She remarried recently! There was a thing about it in the Times! Some guy she dated in the 80s (first date at Tom's Diner) got in touch with her and came back to New York and now they're together, which is annoying, because some part of me liked knowing that long shot or not, Suzanne was, you know, available.

Man I would so like Ruby Froom to be my Facebook friend, but, you know, creepshow

Yeah, I already feel creepy enough for posting it.

"hai ru-b, i like yr mom from b-4 u were born LOL, but not that soul coughing album named after u (sorree), will u b my frend thnx"

(Actually I kinda wonder if she does/doesn't like the record named after her)

Yeah, I already feel creepy enough for posting it.

Poke her!

I like that record, for something I probably haven't listened to in 10 years (save for "Screenwriter's Blues").

i don't hate the froom-blake sound as soom do but good lord did they ever lean heavily on a very specific drum sound. what's the deal? did they just mic the snare really really closely? very dry drum sound and they seem to use it on Every Single Record They Produced.

there is the general problem, not unique to this duo, of over-arranging various MOR adult-album-alternative albums to disguise the lack of good tunes. in this case over-arranging means, not strings and things, but just lots of self-consciously eclectic percussion, odd solo instruments like a bowed saw or something.

also: geir has the boringest fucking taste in the world. even if his rationale for it is, at the least, unique.

I'm listening to the Thompson album Mirror Blue (defended by Naive Teen Idol up thread), and while Froom's production is not as clankety as Rumor and Sigh's it's still smothering.

There's a really funny story from Pete Thomas that ran years and years ago in (probably) Modern Drummer. He's in session mode, and heads into a Squeeze session following a session with Froom. He tells a story of wasting all this time taping maracas to his knees and bells and stuff to his arms. The band was all, wtf, Pete?

Froom's recent stuff has been a lot more streamlined/characterless (Finn Brothers and Randy Newman discs pretty plain, with Froom focusing on arranging). I suppose he's leaving the kookiness to Jon Brion, but even Brion's dropped many of his studio eccentricities. What's Blake up to these days?

didn't he do a Bad Plus record or something?

blake just produced the peter gabriel covers album with orchestra. yeah they seem to have left their characteristic sound behind.

I've talked with Bruce Kaphan from American Music Club a fair amount about what it was like recording with Froom; he said while he learned a lot about engineering and mixing during the record, he really hated the approach they took to production, which essentially ignored the band (they told him they didn't know what to do with him); that they broke everything down into component parts so the holistic view of the band working together was completely gone. Now whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is up to the individual listener, I guess. I'm of the feeling that they did a really good job on Mercury, certainly better than Kevin Killen was doing (his versions of the songs have been self-released by the band and they just don't hold your attention). And it wasn't for lack of good songs on the record either; it's one of the bands strongest sets of tunes. But there is something to be said about live performances of those same songs at the same time, they have much, much more power than the studio versions, which come across like Froom's playthings in comparison (I still like it though).