the term "novelty bands" (esp. when used as pejorative)...dud or DUD?

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If there's one thing that gets my feathers ruffled, it's the term "novelty band". Generally used as a means of dismissing an artist/group's entire body of work.

I guess it wouldn't bother me so much if it were used more consistently; say, fr'instance, if'n you're going to call They Might Be Giants a "novelty band" for writing songs with somewhat-humorous-smart-alec-y subject matter, why not also apply the term to The Beatles, who were equally as guilty of the same "offense".

What irks me the most about it though is that it implies that the musical/lyrical content is done for the sake of strangeness; as if to totally discard the notion that maybe, possibly people might be different and appreciate different things in music. As if to say "sorry you're a weirdo, since you're such a weirdo and your music reflects that, your music doesn't mean bollocks and isn't worthy of the same recognition as normal music".

Okay, shpeel over. What do you think of the term "novelty band"?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

if'n you're going to call They Might Be Giants a "novelty band" for writing songs with somewhat-humorous-smart-alec-y subject matter, why not also apply the term to The Beatles

Well, The Beatles did write novelty songs. "Rocky Raccoon," fer instance. But not "In My Life."

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

What about a band like taTu, who are, to me, the very *essence* of a novelty band, yet they get tons of critical adulation heaped upon them.

― kate, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess what I meant when I said that I hate Primus and I wish death on Mike Patton is... well, it's the one-two punch of having a sound I intensely dislike, and having the stink of jokey disingenuousness. I can't logically defend it.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

For some acts, like say, Weird Al, it seems like they're courting the notion of being a "novelty". Maybe they should call that kind of band "parody band" or "comedy band" to be more accurate.

However, when "novelty" is applied to bands that are merely idiosyncratic, or performing in a non-mainstream mode (and not going for the comedy or parody of someone like Weird Al), I think it's an unfair/reductive term. I once heard a European folk band described as a novelty band -- because all they ever played was folk.

― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Zappa, too - I hate Zappa for the same reason.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is "In My Life" not a novelty song? Cause it deals with the same boring old subject matter as 5000 other songs? Why is Rocky Raccoon a novelty song? Defend your statements here.

― NA. (Nick A.), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, They Might Be Giants may have written "novelty songs" a la "Shoehorn With Teeth", but they also wrote songs that were certainly not "novelty songs" such as "Dead" or "She's an Angel".

With TaTu, I think their 'novelty' resides more in their image & identity than in their music, which isn't particularly strange or silly...and I think it's a tendency towards/appreciation of silliness (and much more in respect to lyrical matters than musical ones) that people equate the concept of 'novelty' with.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

the key word here is NOVELTY.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm guessing you're saying that Rocky Raccoon is a novelty song because it's a pastiche of a style that the Beatles did not typically use (country/folk song). But when you have a band like the Beatls that liked to play in a large variety of styles, how can you say which songs are novelty songs and which aren't? How is "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" less of a novelty than say, "Honey Pie"?

― NA. (Nick A.), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm guessing that what Kenan is saying is that Rocky Raccoon is a novelty song because it's a pastiche of a style that the Beatles did not typically use (country/folk song). But when you have a band like the Beatls that liked to play in a large variety of styles, how can you say which songs are novelty songs and which aren't? How is "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" less of a novelty than say, "Honey Pie"?

― NA. (Nick A.), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, shit.

― NA. (Nick A.), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

So, Horace, what are you saying? Doesn't novelty just mean something new? That's pretty vague. Or do you mean the songs have fake Groucho Marx noses/moustache/glasses thingies on?

― NA. (Nick A.), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

The reason that "novelty band" is such a pejorative term is the implication that once the novelty has worn off, there is nothing else to them other than the novelty, which is not neccessarily true.

Would like to contribute more, but office drudgery intrudes...

― kate, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

where i come from they are called joke bands:Gwar,Dred Zeppelin. and the songs are called novelty songs:Mr.Jaws, Kung Fu Fighting. I have never heard They Might Be Giants described as a joke band though. Nerd rock maybe. weird al would be a comedian/musician who makes novelty songs.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

fake

What "novelty" actually means is maybe not as important is why people use it to describe music: it seems to me when the music seems "fake" ("TATU is just a novelty, they just sit there and look hot and are lesbians", ie, the music is entirely unnecessary and "fake"), it gets branded a novelty. "Rocky Raccoon" as novelty: "P-Mac probably spent no time on it, adopts a ridiculous southern accent, and as everyone knows, it's not a real Beatles song anyway".

― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Nickalicious makes a good point in his question - 'novelty' is a really lazy way of describing any music/song with a comedy or light-hearted or irreverent element to it. You get the feeling that it basically just means 'how dare you not take music as seriously as me! Music is not something to be played around with or laughed at!'

What exactly is wrong with taking the piss? Maybe people who object strongly to 'novelty' bands should, y'know, lighten up, perhaps?

― pete b. (pete b.), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

The difference in in the intention. Novelty songs are jokes, like fake poo or whopee cushions. "Rock Raccoon" sits on this line, though I understand you could go either way on it. Describing Primus in this way was a deliberate exagguration on my part.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

"Gimmick band" would be a useful differentiator here - TaTu are a gimmick band, as in the first thing anyone learns about them is the gimmick. But then so were Kraftwerk.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think labelling something as "novelty" necessarily has to have a value judgement (or means that the labeller is somehow "too serious"). Certainly there's stuff that people may enjoy solely because of its novelty value, and they can describe it as such (although I agree that gimmick is maybe more descriptive).

And "Rocky Raccoon" is totally novelty, but still an enjoyable song (even if it has less lyrical meaning to be gleaned from it than, say, "Bungalow Bill").

― hstencil, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

(ps I don't want you to think I'm trying to pick on you or anything Kenan; this topic has been a bugaboo of mine for years now)

If we consider the word 'novelty' in the context of it's word-root meaning 'new', then this 'novelty band' term isn't being used very accurately; rather than being used as a common discriptor of the new/fresh, it's generally used more as a reflection on the apparent "meaningfulness" or "seriousness" of the music.

But then, what words are used appropriately in genre classification? Fr'instance, it's years since the word 'alternative' referred to music that actually provided a sonic alternative to something defined, whereas now it is used to describe a specific kind of sound.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't consider rocky raccoon to be a novelty song. Pac Man Fever is, though.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

but nick novelty is not being used solely in the "new" context here. It's used more in the "faddish" or "gimmicky" sense, a la Daniel Boone hats or hula hoops.

― hstencil, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

novlety songs to me are usually topical or fad-inducing. the macarena would be a novelty song. or they play off of popular figures in some way:snoopy-vs-the red baron

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Novelty as in the song's success is dependent on some gimmick, like a joy buzzer.
In my recent review of LiveOnRelease's new alb, I bemoaned the fact that there's no novelty song, like their only hit, "I'm Afraid of Britney Spears."
Avril Lavigne is a novelty act, or at least was. KISS is a novelty act. Madonna is be-all-end-all of novelty acts, she's like X-Ray Glasses+Whoopee Cushion+Ice Cubes with flies in 'em.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

alley oop and one eyed one horned flying purple people eaters and even itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka dot bikinis are ripe novelty song topics for instance

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

avril and kiss and madonna are not novelty acts.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

fischerspooner and the faint are novelty acts. or joke bands.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

the archies and the banana splits were novelty acts. or joke bands.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

*self-psychiatrizing now*

I wonder why I'm bothered by the idea that one would classify groups/artists as "novelty", but not by the idea that one would classify songs as "novelty"? Hm.

*self-psychiatrist getting bored, falling asleep, being raped in the naval by a drunken chimpanzee, not doing much actual psychiatrizing*

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

a drunken chimpanzee is ipso facto a fine novelty act

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The Archies were not. Andy Kim rocks.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay so maybe "Rocky Racoon" is a parody of a novelty. Certainly would fit in with my theory that the white album is the greatest self-parodic hoodwink ever played on the listening public.

― hstencil, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

labelling something a novelty/joke/comedy act in no way refelects on their inherent wonderfulness. just ask mickey katz! oh, wait, he's dead.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder why I'm bothered by the idea that one would classify groups/artists as "novelty", but not by the idea that one would classify songs
as "novelty"? Hm.

I'd generally agree with you on this point, that noveltitude should be taken on a song by song basis.

However, I'd like to further my rep for making inflammatory statements by saying that the Music Video has made us all Novelty Artists.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

rocky raccoon is just another macca stab at whimsy! he had a million of them. maxwell's silver hammer and yellow submarine are actually closer to novelty territory. he was just being silly. just as in helter skelter he was trying out a little genocidal psychotic rage thing to see how that felt.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought we were all stars. last great novelty song:who let the dogs out?

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Spike Jones was totally novelty, and he kicks like major ass dude.

― hstencil, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

so did his pal mickey katz. they were both wonderful. some of the greatest songs on earth are novelty songs.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

even most of the answer songs to novelty songs are some of the greatest songs on earth:Louie Go Home, Roxanne's Revenge, Roxanne's Doctor

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

"No Pigeons."

― hstencil, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i have a great answer to "they're coming to take me away" called "I'm Normal" where the guy just screams out of nowhere at the top of his lungs,"Stay away from my frogs!!!". It's beautiful.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

just kim fowley and dicky goodman and david seville alone: we are talking genius of a high order.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Is this another chance for my to pledge my undying love for Rufus Thomas?

ps my monkey CAN do the dog.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

have you ever heard "Rappin' Rufus" by Rufus Thomas? that song kicks ass.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I've heard "Do the Funky Something" an early nineties number he did with The Godchildren of Soul.
His best, though, is his 8 minute version of "Sixty Minute Man," actually the whole Do The Funky Chicken album is fucking amazing, esp. "The Preacher and the Bear."

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

being a lifelong fan of Dr. Demento, I never appreciated the term. plus, it usually is used to discard or ignore certain bands.

e.g. The Zambonis, which are a great band and write some truly inspired songs, except they're written off as a joke band since they only sing about hockey.

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

rappin' rufus is just rufus and a drum machine rocking out. he tells everyone how bad he is. the originator. it's funny. maybe not as funny as the miami bass song "O.J. Didn't Do It", but funny. but, yeah, all his classic, classic stuff is indeed classic.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

If I was going to do grad studies, I would do it on Rufus Thomas. Do you if there are any biogs on him?

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

hstencil, you like Spike Jones?!?!?

::major adulation::

― kate, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think so. i could be wrong, though. there is lots of stuff on stax, i'm sure. and info on the web. but a full biography? you will have to write it.

― scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, The Beatles did write novelty songs. "Rocky Raccoon," fer instance. But not "In My Life."
"In my Life" is soooooo novelty-esque. In fact, everything Paul McCartney even sniffed at ends up sounding like circus music to me. He only made half-way decent music when John Lennon was kicking him in his pasty ass.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

kate, sure I like Spike Jones, although I don't own any of his stuff. Major appreciation for him, though.

― hstencil, Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

When I was, like, 12, I used to watch Spike Jones videos with my dad, who grew up watching them. Even though they were in b & w, I remember their suits in colour.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 May 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I always thought "Rocky Raccoon" was reference to the old music-hall style, and not really that novelty.

― Brandon Gentry (Brandon Gentry), Thursday, 22 May 2003 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Novelty = Interesting, but not worthy of any long-lasting interest.

Rahsaan Roland Kirk was passed of as a novelty because he could play three horns at once.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 22 May 2003 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

a rufus thomas bio would be amazing. The man would have some stories to tell, I bet. Get on it, Mr Horace! The world needs more chicken gravy, spilled on a clean white shirt.

― pauls00, Thursday, 22 May 2003 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

The Inflated Tear kills me. It's so good.
It's weird that now that sort of thing doesn't matter, what with multi-track recording and everything, and on record we can't SEE that Kirk's playing three horns at once (never mind that at least two of them are ones that HE invented), so it's this weird, sort of moot novelty.

Y'know what, even though I always wanted to do a Willie Nelson bio, I think I should do a Rufus Thomas bio. I think I will.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 May 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

pauls00, you do know that Rufus died in late 2001?

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 May 2003 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

uhm, no. damn. Is Carla still around?

― pauls00, Thursday, 22 May 2003 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I always thought "Rocky Raccoon" was reference to the old music-hall style, and not really that novelty.

But in 1968, THAT'S A NOVELTY!

― hstencil, Thursday, 22 May 2003 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Rahsaan Roland Kirk was passed of as a novelty because he could play three horns at once.

Also for his using slide whistles as well as his playing flute with his nose. And for the hats. I'll never forgive the world for calling Roland Kirk a "novelty".

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 22 May 2003 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

yay, another thread about semantics (if it were about The Semantics, that'd be another story)--when we wrap this one up, let's decide what "indie rock" means.

But seriously now, more folks who I think transcend novelty but were probably subject to the label:

The Bonzo Dog Band
P.D.Q. Bach
Raymond Scott
and last but not least...
The Chicago Bears ("Super Bowl Shuffle")

― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Thursday, 22 May 2003 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Regardless of whether you like 'em or not, I don't think They Might Be Giants could ever be described as a novelty band- they have more than one joke, after all, they may be annoying but they're not one-note.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 22 May 2003 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I only call 'em novelty bands if they seem like they want to be one or if their one good song sounds nothing like anything else they've done. Novelty bands can have more than one joke. TMBG definitely have a novelty element, though they've evolved.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 22 May 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I've long been interested in the category of bands who record a range of material, but are eternally expected because of one (surprise) hit: Offspring, Weezer, Barenaked Ladies, and, archetypally, TMBG. Who else? Can't think now.

On a more general note, it's the unfortuante muddling in my head of idiosyncratic-subject-matter / one-laugh-value / self-conscious lyrics and everything else mentioned in this thread that leads me to dismiss artists out of hand sometimes. I didn't go and see Jeffrey Lewis in a small venue this week for fear that he would be Whacky. A mistake, I think.

Is Jonathan Richmond a novelty?

― Alan Connor Jr, Friday, 23 May 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Jonathan Richmond the landscaper from Nebraska?

What about Bob Log III? Man or Astro-Man? Novelty is at play in both acts, as it is in approximately 64% of all alt-country acts.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 23 May 2003 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Novelty is clearly not a bad thing. Unless you hate fun. Some kinda novelty schtick makes you stand out from the crowd. But to be a good novelty, don't you either have to disappear after releasing one or two perfect novelty songs, or change your schtick? Like Rufus Thomas. Bear Cat, Tiger Man, Do the Funky Chicken, etc, etc. OK, he's got some sort of pretty consistent animal thing going on, but the music changed pretty substantially, and was all great.
Or is it better to get your one perfect schtick down, and stick to it for ever?

― pauls00, Friday, 23 May 2003 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

We are talking about POP music, right? or hell, even Rock & Roll, if such a term deserves to be dragged around in its underpants in its old age...
Anyway, NOVELTY is an essential characteristic of either/both. I mean, "Sympathy for the Devil" is/was novel, "Sister Ray" is most definitely a novelty song just as much as any Ray Stevens anti-Arab ditty.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 23 May 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Jonathan Richmond the landscaper from Nebraska?

That's the fellow. Have you heard his story-songs done in a nu-calypso style? He claims it's the right tool for the job, but I can't help detecting the whiff of novelty - especially when he's in that tin foil cape. Stick to the day job, Richmond.

― Alan Connor, Jnr, Tuesday, 27 May 2003 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I did a study on portrayls of Weezer over time, and there's a treatment of the novelty issue.

Thesis

― MerkinMuffley (MerkinMuffley), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

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