Name a so-called classic album which you think is a real stinker

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I'd go for My Bloody Valentine's "Loveless". It gets its reputation because the music press love the fact that MBV pissed away so much of Creation's money making it and Kevin Shields can be neatly pigeonholed into the 'reclusive genius' category. That means they can print lots of little rumors like 'Kevin will release Techno album in 2007' and 'Kevin seen at bus-stop in Wapping'. Anyway Loveless sounds like my vacuum cleaner. Backwards.

― Dr.C, Thursday, 11 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Well, you're definitely wrong. However - I would like to listen to your hoover one day, sampling it and playing it backwards if need be.

Not really classic, but a couple of years ago when everybody raved on and on about post-rock I remember everybody claiming June of 44 to be thee seminal band for the genre and their records are the most souless muso crap I've ever heard. Worse than bad Tortoise...

I'm sure I hate lots of cannonised rock, I might get back to you when I've had achance to peruse my shelves.

― Cewshabadoo, Thursday, 11 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Chewshabadoo (May I call you Chewy?) I'm with you on the post-rock scene, although not heard June 44. I have not dug deep into the Chicago stuff having been put off by the last Tortoise album (TNT). Are their earlier ones as grim? TNT did nothing for me and everything else I've heard that MacEntire has touched has been dull. His involvement with Stereolab turned them from neat foot-on-the-gas krautrockin' to wallpaper at best, and bloody irritating at worst.

― Dr.C, Thursday, 11 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Well I prefer "Isn't Anything" but "Loveless" is still a record of rare beauty. As to the "so called classic albums" I think are awful I'd nominate The Clash's debut as monumentally overated. Anything by the Doors I usually find overblown horsesh*t.

― Stevo, Thursday, 11 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Ha, where to begin? When I was 13 or 14 I got a book out of the library which claimed to talk about the top 100 albums ever. I was really excited - this surely would be my gateway into a realm of extraordinary music. But wait - every time I went and heard one of them (or almost every time) it was awful at worst, ploddingly just- about-enjoyable at best. And in a nutshell that's why this forum's here now.

ANYWAY, of all the many 'classic album' turkeys I've come across in my time, the worst may well be "Automatic For The People", seeing as it was one of the first times I saw the canonisation process in action, and also because I fell for it for a month or two before the creeping horrible realisation gradually dawned on me that it was an album's worth of mealy-mouthed messianic acoustica dreck. (Except for "Drive" which is passable.)

― Tom, Thursday, 11 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

'OK Computer'. Never listened to it though. One day I'll write the definitive piece on the preeminence of uninformed pop criticism.

Most in danger of being underrated it's so often classed as overrated: 'Sergeant Pepper'.

See why this Canadian thinks Pet Sounds sucks

― Nick, Thursday, 11 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

TOMMY. Even though The Who are The Greatest Band Ever and I love them as dearly as one can, the live sets done on the tours in the mid 70's are PHENOMINAL and POWERFUL and LOUD, whereas the actual album is flat-flat-flat all the way through. It's still hard for me to figure out why. Pick up the "Live Tommy At The Leeds" bootleg if you don't believe me.

― JM, Thursday, 11 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Screamadelica - Primal Scream. Bullshit bullshit bullshit.

― Hymie, Thursday, 11 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

So you think it's bullshit, then? Let us know why. Could be entertaining!

― Dr.C, Thursday, 11 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

I'd go with "loveless" as well, if only for the fact that it was number one on Pitchfork's Top 100 of the 90's. ;)

― larmey, Friday, 12 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Radiohead in general & OK computer in particular have always struck me as the most fetid, bereft, overblown pish i've ever had the misfortune to witness. Their appeal mystifys me and places bands that I merely despise in valuable context.

Did it ever occur to you that your hoover may be ripping off MBV?

― cw, Friday, 12 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Nah, not 'Loveless'...brilliant aural emulation of dropping E.

The anwser is a) Trout Mask Replica by Captain Beefshite (it's the voice really, I want to kill every being on this planet after hearing 10 seconds of his so-called singing) b) all records by Bob Dylan. c) Songs in the Key of Shite by Stevie Wonder. I'm on roll now, I'm afraid d) all records by Lou Reed e) every record by Neil Young except Tonight's the Night. Okay one more f) Every record by Frank Zappa.

― o.munoz, Friday, 12 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

well.. all queen albums should be a very nice answer i guess.

but at the moment I hate the blind praise Eykah Badu gets..

Ludo

― Ludo, Friday, 12 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

I'd second "Loveless". I like the album but its nowhere near as good as "Isn't Anything". Too much hype for just a "good" album.

First Clash record, overrated!?! Pssshaw.

I'd go overrated with: Stereolab June of 44 Lauryn Hill - "Miseducation of" Flaming Lips - "Soft Bulletin" (good album but nowhere near as good as "Transmissions From the Satellite Heart") The band themselves, however, are brilliant. Shellac - all Don Caballero - all

― Tim Baier, Friday, 12 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

I absolutely hate 'Sgt. Peppers..'. I've tried so hard to like it but I can't. It's poo. And the first Clash album isn't that great either, but that's more a fault of the crap production than the songs.

― DG, Friday, 12 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

O. Munoz - You the Man! Zappa, yes, yes, yes... Bag o'shite. 'Trout Mask'....Bag o' shite! Have to say that 'Safe as Milk' is damn fine though. Can't believe the comments on The Clash. Unimpeachably great! Radiohead - yup, I know what you mean CW, I 've played KID A more times in 3 months than I've played 'OK' in 3 years. Aren't Coldplay useless? I need a beer. Dr. C

― DR.C, Saturday, 13 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

.. portishead? massive attack?

Ludo

― Ludo, Sunday, 14 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Something in my contrarian veins keeps me from picking anything. In a certain fashion, anything which work has been put into can be appreciated on its own terms. Which is a funny way of complaining about my recently acquired inability to discriminate which accompanies my increasing attempts to explain and understand. So I have no particular axes to grind against any album in particular -- against critical overrating and misreading, sure, but not against the album or work itself. Even radiohead.

Jimmy Mod's choice of TOMMY is good because we can hold the album up to the higher standard of the live performances (and de-damn what a standard) whereas it is mostly idiotic to complain of albums "not living up to their potential" since what the fuck do you know, you're not the one who made the damn album, and what defines potential (what COULD have been created) against what WAS created, which is in some ways ALL THAT COULD have been created (everybody does their best, or can say they did, after all)?

I consider Loveless a great album, by the way. However, persuing the Kevin Shields run, the latest Primal Scream album seems like shit to me, from what I've heard -- but this is neither considered a classic, nor is there a critical consensus on its quality at all.

I'm not happy about this situation w/r/t my taste, mind you. It pretty much sucks to try to be a critic and fail to have any controversial stands against

― Sterling Clover, Sunday, 14 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

"Aja" by Steely Dan. I reckon I just dont "get" SD. Oh, the irony! Oh, what sophisticated, subversive music for sharp-dressed rich guys to elegantly OD to... Bollocks. It's just really boring jazz-rock (but oh! the pop hooks! - shut up!) made by two guys too clever by half. But "Deacon Blue"? Not even.

― s, Sunday, 14 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Anything by the Stones.

― Snow Dog, Monday, 15 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

The first Stone Roses album, no question. The second I actually think is OK, bizarrely.

― Robin Carmody, Monday, 15 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Well, to be honest, I really don't know what's so flippin' brilliant about "Too Rye Aye" or whatever it's called by Dexy's Midnight Runners!!! Reasonably pleasant music in places, but you'd get the feeling from some folks it was the best album of the 80s!!!!!! Sounds like Van Morrison with decent vocals, better production, and slightly more in-your-face "intense" arrangements!!!! And... Oh yeah, the band dress like some fantasy "crusty" collective!!!! Why didn't The Pogues think of that one?!?!??! We might have been spared that terribly boring "Jack Wilson Says" getting an airing every time The Young Ones gets an repeated on UK Gold!!!!!!

Old Fart!!!!!

― Old Fart!!!, Monday, 15 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

I'd have to go with Spacemen 3's _Playing With Fire_. I like "Suicide" plenty, but most of the album is an absolute bore. But I'm not positive it's considered a so-called classic anyway.

― Mark Richardson, Monday, 15 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

The Velvet Underground & Nico. Lou Reed hang your head in shame. Shame I say!

― Pete, Tuesday, 16 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Too true. Bloody Nico. Some of the music's good on that, though.

― Tom, Tuesday, 16 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Oh dear. Tom already knows me well enough to know my answer would be "Pretty much all of them", because I think the classic criteria is really warped now a days. I suppose if I have to pick one, it'd be whichever Beatles' album is highest rated at the moment - some years its Revolver, some years it's Sgt Pepper, some years it's the White Album. All three are terribly overrated - none of them bad albums necessarily, but none of them the sort of godly wonders that they SHOULD be to deserve such acclaim.

But my god, that leaves out everyone else I don't "get", and we can't have that. Tommy is one of the Who's weakest albums, and love them as I do, doesn't deserve to be ranked, no matter how much it changed the face of popular musicals (some might say not for the better - paging Andrew Lloyd Webber). Count me out on pretty much all of Led Zep too, except the stuff that really rocks (ie the stuff that doesn't have strings and balladry and crap about fairies and hobbits). The American scene in the 60s of ROCK confuses me as well (note the use of rock, because the pop and R&B is a wholly different story), particularly the California scene.

And you will never, ever, ever sell me on the fucking Eagles. EVER. Til the day I die, I will hate the Eagles. And Fleetwood Mac, which basically became the same band in the 70s, except one had a female singer. Total arse.

― Ally, Tuesday, 16 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

black sabbath -- paranoid: too slow to excite, too light to grind. and that voice!

miles davis -- bitches brew/in a silent way: john mclaughlin. blecch. laid-back wing-tip funk keyboards. blecch. and _kind of blue_ puts me to sleep.

― sundar subramanian, Tuesday, 23 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

I'd also like to add Patti Smith's _Horses_. "Gloria" is pretty cool, but the production on that album is horrible. It sounds like Billy Joel's _52nd Street_ without the professional chord changes. A 70s relic.

― Mark Richardson, Sunday, 28 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

I had read a bunch of year-end lists touting Andrea Parker's "Kiss My ARP" as being a really fantastic electronic record, and since they were sold out, I had to persuade the guy at HMV to sell me the in- store copy. I got it home and listened to it, and nearly pitched it out the window. Shite!

Also, the White Album has four really good songs and about eight thousand ones which aren't worth ever hearing again.

― Dave M., Sunday, 28 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Hey, Mark, about that Patti Smith album... John motherfucking fuck you up Cale produced it. He could produce the Steve Miller Band and turn it into gold. (Lester Bangs' complaints about his work on The Stooges' s/t notwithstanding). I find the production similar to that on Television's s/t, which I think is a supremely good thing. Sharp and slick, which gives it an overbearing artistic "fuck you" attitude similar to certain abstract minimalist painting -- I did this thing, and I meant to, and if you don't like it, I don't care. The worst production on a Smith record has to be on Wave, which is a good album nonetheless.

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 29 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

"Never Mind The Bollocks..." by The Sex Pistols. A great record, but not even in the same league as anything by the Clash, or the Ramones. Sid Vicious being the bands main downfall, along with John Lydon's rediculously overbloated ego. I blame this record for the majority of stupidity in punk rock.

― SPARTICUS, Monday, 29 January 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

two weeks pass...

For this topic I reckon it's easy. The Flaming Lips 'Soft Bulletin' I think every piece of criticism on this album salivated over the release, whereas I couldn't see anything but boring prog-rock tripe -- with the most annoying 'vocalising' (I'll borrow Bez's euphemism for singing here) ever laid down on a recording. Boring.

― Jeremy, Thursday, 15 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Loveless? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I don't think we love Loveless cos it was advance-hyped, took a while, etc. Who cares? I find it a bunch of sounds of rare beauty. I really do. It moves me more than most music. All that hype stuff passes me by, I'm out of touch. Loveless is an extraordinary record.

I have said that pretty poorly. As for my choice, yes, Screamedelica is a big contender. In autumn 92 I listened to it over and over and over, trying to dig it, till I realized there was nothing much to like about it.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 20 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"Hotel California" by the Eagles. Tepid wimp-rock. Any late period Steely Dan - tepid jazz wank. "The queen is dead", in fact any Smiths album - not as good as they should be, they never made a consistently enjoyable album without diving into hammy theatrics. "Pills'n'thrills etc" - dreadful record, adored for some reason by everyone, "Bummed" was far superior. "In a silent way" - could never get into it, nothing happens for 40 minutes, big deal. "Urban hymns" - two good songs don't make a 70 minute album.

― Rob M, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two weeks pass...

Dark Side of The Moon. Awful, awful, awful. And yes, Loveless is, well, lovely.

― Ally C, Tuesday, 13 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

exile in guyville, i think. is it still considered a classic?

― acesstime, Saturday, 24 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I thought all the radio head albums were a bit dull really, screamadellica isn't that bad, but probably the most dissapointing album iv'e heard is Power, Corruption and Lies. everyone says it's the best New Order album, and it is by no means bad. Its just a bit...dull.

― Nick Greenfield, Sunday, 25 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Steve Miller. Ewww...

― Kim, Sunday, 25 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

three weeks pass...

Beach Boys' Pet Sounds. Not that I think it's a real stinker, but I just don't GET it. It's got some nice songs on it, but I don't understand at ALL how it's consistently named as the #1 or #2 album of all time. I don't really get Sgt. Pepper either, but apparently the two go together.

― Sean Carruthers, Wednesday, 18 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

three months pass...

Television..."Marquee Moon"....the Dire Straits it's OK to like.

― David, Saturday, 11 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Thank God. I thought it was just me who regretted buying Marquee Moon. One good riff and then oceans of awful guitar-wank. People who venerate this album obviously haven't heard it. And Loveless is indescribably bad, but then it comes from a time when standards for new guitar music were much lower. See also: all Wedding Present records.

― heronette, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one year passes...

I must say that you people but are entitled to your opinions but, man, I think you guys are seriously off-base on a lot of albums here. I know the point is which albums you think are over-rated, but when you people put down Dark Side of the Moon, Sgt. Pepper, and Pet Sounds I gotta wonder what the hell you are listening to. You should show a little more respect. If it wasn't for these real musicians a lot of the water-down crap you people are listening to now wouldn't even be in exsistence.
I also must say I like The Who's Tommy the studio version as well... it's just different then the live versions. It has a different quality to it than the live shows, largely stemming from them adding instruments that you wouldn't find them playing on stage/
True their energy is different when they are playing in a studio instead of hundreds of people, but to call it an over-rated classic?
Please.
Punk rock would have been duller than shit had it no been for the Sex Pistols. They were punk before punk became an acceptable life-style. And you sure as hell won't here them playing in the background for a commercial promoting tourism to England.
I will admit Radiohead is not for everyone but to say they are talentless and dull is a sad, sad mistake. They are producing some of the most interesting sounds and melodies you will find on a
major-label release these days.
As for my pick for an overrated classic? How about U2's Joshua Tree? To put it on a list of the 10 essential rock albums of all time and not even mention Jimmy Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Janis Joplin, or the Doors is absoutely ridiculous.

― Mister Me, Sunday, 15 September 2002 23:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Most in danger of being underrated it's so often classed as overrated: 'Sergeant Pepper'.

This is very true. Though I suppose any album that was all but universally considered The Greatest Achievement of Western Civilization for a few months ("until someone forgets" - Meltzer) is going to be progressively devalued for the next forty years until someone finally stands up and says "But it did have some good songs...didn't it?"

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 16 September 2002 05:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Where is Omar these days? I miss the indiscriminate Zappa/Beefheart bashing ;-)

Been said before, but the problem with the Beatles albums is the endless Boomer hype. Listening to them now must be like what listening to Frank Sinatra was like during the Sixties.

And the real problem with this thread is that some of the so-called "classics" really aren't classic. Hotel California? Exile in Guyville? Steve Miller? The Joshua Tree? Anything by the Doors? Puleaze!

― Tad (llamasfur), Monday, 16 September 2002 05:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Punk rock would have been duller than shit had it no been for the Sex Pistols. They were punk before punk became an acceptable life-style. And you sure as hell won't here them playing in the background for a commercial promoting tourism to England.

I would LOVE to hear "Holidays In The Sun" in a tourist promo. That's what the song was written for, wasn't it?

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 16 September 2002 06:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Anything by Zappa really. Those are classick. The few minutes I was exposed to a Roches record were quite hellish.

― nathalie (nathalie), Monday, 16 September 2002 08:28 (twenty-three years ago)

''Wedding Present records''

um, never thought thye had any major critical acclaim.

''Been said before, but the problem with the Beatles albums is the endless Boomer hype.''

no, the problem with the beatles was some of the music. up to 1965, the singles were fab and then that gave 'em the licence to spend more time in the studio and that's when it began to go wrong (though some of the results were wonderful to hear).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 16 September 2002 09:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Julio, I thought you had only heard a couple Beatles records.

― DeRayMi, Monday, 16 September 2002 12:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Dark Side of the Moon, The Stone Roses, The Holy Bible, Nevermind The Bollocks, Spiderland, Slanted and Enchanted and everything by The Fall, Astral Weeks, Pet Sounds, everything by David Bowie, Pink Moon, The La's, Pills Thrills'n'Bellyahces and most important everything by the fucking Smiths.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 16 September 2002 15:13 (twenty-three years ago)

''Julio, I thought you had only heard a couple Beatles records.''

it was only one before saturday...I have heard some other stuff on the radio and I feel that i have enough evidence for a judgement.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 16 September 2002 15:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Abbey Road
Blood on the Tracks
What's Going On
Anything by Pink Floyd, Queen, or Patti Smith

― Burr, Monday, 16 September 2002 17:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Hmmph, what would you think of someone who would judge Anthony Braxton after only hearing 100 of his recordings?

― DeRayMi, Monday, 16 September 2002 21:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Suicide [Second Album]

Just who the fuck did they think they were?

― Ryan Pitchfork, Monday, 16 September 2002 22:07 (twenty-three years ago)

eight months pass...

revive

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Pet Sounds - very poor indeed
The Stone Roses - see above

more stuff here

― jim, Tuesday, 10 June 2003 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate the fact that MBV is being bashed here, i can think of so many bands that should be dished out heaps of shit long before them.

― sarah mccormick (unsarah), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

What the hell was I talking about? The good old contrarian days, as Ally said once.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's slag on the Beastie Boys, shall we?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

two from me. they will be unpopular choices .. i realise i will be extradited.excommunicated. just ex'd off. but here goes.
1 - pixies sufa rosa. 50 mins of sheer fucking turgid pain. i have tried a lot over years to get it. but i cant. i even saw em live (twice !) and they bored the fragging pants off me. but my darling wife loves em to bits, therefore i smile sweetly and put the damn album on - again.
2 - elephant by white stripes. again. i dont get it. maybe i need to see jack and meg do their thing live to get the reason for the fan worship but i am sick to death of the back to basics garage rock thing that they are soo damn good at ..
back over to your normal transmission ..

― mark e (mark e), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Nirvana - Nevermind. Unlistenable, turgid tosh.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Cream - Disraeli Gears

I'm so disrespectful to the "Classics". I should be ashamed.

― Michael Dubsky, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 04:41 (twenty-two years ago)

daydream nation: bucket of turds

― bob snoom, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 07:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Totally agree re: early Pixies (says the only person on the planet who liked "Trompe L'Oeil")

Also Elvis Costello and Uncle Tupelo.

― Chris Clark (Chris Clark), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Ramones Leave Home
and Rocket to Russia

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd have to go with Spacemen 3's _Playing With Fire_. I like "Suicide" plenty, but most of the album is an absolute bore. But I'm not positive it's considered a so-called classic anyway.
-- Mark Richardson (mark@p1tchf0rkmedia.c0m), January 15th, 2001.

OK, that's it. Now I understand the general ILM hatred of pitchfork now. Pits of hell for all eternity with you, NOW!

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Frampton Comes Alive

― Chris V. (Chris V), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

all dronerock sucks

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

You suck. I like singing along with the vaccuum cleaner. I just spent ten minutes in the server room singing along with a fan.

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The fan that cools the server, obviously. Cause I don't have any fans, what with having no talent, yadda yadda yadda.

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

troll

1. v.,n. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it. See also YHBT. 2. n. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll." Compare kook. 3. n. [Berkeley] Computer lab monitor. A popular campus job for CS students. Duties include helping newbies and ensuring that lab policies are followed. Probably so-called because it involves lurking in dark cavelike corners.

Some people claim that the troll (sense 1) is properly a narrower category than flame bait, that a troll is categorized by containing some assertion that is wrong but not overtly controversial. See also Troll-O-Meter.

The use of `troll' in either sense is a live metaphor that readily produces elaborations and combining forms. For example, one not infrequently sees the warning "Do not feed the troll" as part of a followup to troll postings.

-- The Jargon File

Have you ever blown highly compressed air into a power supply fan?

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i'd echo the 'heffalump' and 'trout mask' and 'daydream nation'
and i'll raise you 'blonde on blonde' and 'gram parsons' and
'surf's up'.

― piscesboy, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

''daydream nation: bucket of turds''

wah! bob if you hadn't sent me all those tapes I'd kill ya ;-)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread blows. Look at us! Smashing critical conventions! YIPPEE!

― NA. (Nick A.), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Agree with:
Loveless
Pet Sounds
Nevermind The Bullocks

I'd like to disagree, however, with the claim that all Fall records are shit. Yeah, MES has put out a lot of boring crap, but I can't get along with people who don't appreciate This Nation's Saving Grace, The Wonderful And Frightening World and Hex Enduction Hour.

In response to Sundar's comments about Paranoid: add some grass. Without that it can be kind of a painful album to listen to.

As far as albums I think are pretty shabby, Joni Mitchell's Blue is way too grim to worm its way into my heart.

― Ian Johnson, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I like basically all of the albums I've heard on this list. I guess I'm the canon.

― NA. (Nick A.), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

a loose enough canon?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

(I already took back my comments. You're right that grass helps though.)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

'The Greatest Prog Rock Album ever'

― s.r.w. (s.r.w.), Thursday, 12 June 2003 11:07 (twenty-two years ago)

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