Holy crap, I saw ESG and Liquid Liquid at the DEMF last night...

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Wow...

Great show, Liquid Liquid's set ranks as my #2 all time best concert behind Kraftwerk at the State Theatre in 1998.

The weather was good, although it looked like it could rain at any moment. The festival was much smaller than in previous years, and I think that was actually a good thing. Less people, less corporate sponsorship, fewer booths trying to cash in on the whole dance music craze, whatever that was. It was a lot easier to run into people because they crowd was not so bad. I ran into so many people that I have not seen in years or would expect to see. The music crowd was not limited to the Detroit Anglo-tech mafia. Anyone and everyone were there and it was nice to see that kind of variety in the crowd. This was the first year that I can say I did not care about it and I was just there to hear some music and have a good time.

7pm, Liquid Liquid step on the underground stage and detonate. I hate to say this, but I have never liked Liquid Liquid's recorded output. It is not cool to say, you are supposed to praise them to the heavens because it is the aesthetically correct thing to do. I will be honest; they never made a great record. They made interesting records that contained great ideas. Their records are important because they contain ideas that have the potential to mutate when other music people get a hold of them. Their recordings exist more as stored energy waiting to harnessed or perhaps potential evolutionary drivers
waiting to be unleashed.

That being said, I have always respected them even if I did not enjoy them. That all changed after the show last night, I was shocked at how good they were. These guys are not spring chickens; they were fresh out the box before I could read. They stepped on stage and dominated from the first note. They played with the kind of verve and vigor that few bands half their age could even hope to match. They laid down a vibe and the crowd reacted to it. Everything you've heard on the records means nothing. Their live show is 50 times better than their records.

In my mind, they have gone from being a band that had some great ideas to a band that is vitally important to this day. I still cannot get over the fact that I got to see this. It was the kind of gig that falls into the same category as a UK Motown Review in 1965 or Elvis Presley with Scotty Moore on guitar and Bill Monroe on the bass at the Louisiana Hayride, or Derrick May at The Music Institute in 1989.

Liquid Liquid were like a myth to me, they only exist on record and on the screen of the computer monitor in front of me. Last night they stepped out and their set said we have this hype for a reason and we and going to grab you by the hipster throat and show you who is boss. They threw it down last night; they are second only to Kraftwerk in my book.

At 9pm ESG took the stage and shocked me again. I was expecting Liquid Liquid to be all right and ESG to throw down because their records were so much better. Another thing I hate to admit is that the only ESG I care for (and I care for it a whole lot) are the tracks they did with Martin Hannett on that first Factory record. After last night's show I came to the conclusion that ESG owes its whole career to the studio craftsmanship of Martin Hannett. They peaked on that record, everything else was lackluster.

They stepped on stage looking like what they are, a bunch of fat middle-aged Puerto Rican housewives. When it comes to music I am not particularly lookist, if you have the audio I don't really care what you look like. In fact, if they would have rocked the house looking like they did, I think they would have been ten times cooler. Their show was unremarkable and not particularly communicative.

The way the show read to me was: Well, we are old now, but we made some good records and the 80's are back, so rather than working real jobs, why don't we just cash in on our notoriety. They played like a paychecking oldies band, and not a particularly good oldies band at that. Any spark they once had was completely gone last night; it was just a bunch of paycheck players plodding through a set list in order to meet their contractual obligation. Think about what an old broke down never-made-it bar band sounds like, and then put it on stage at the DEMF, it was a lot like that.

All in all, it was a great night. I have not had that much fun in awhile. I have managed to catch a cold this weekend, so I am trying to take it easy. I think this is really funny because I just quit smoking, and I never got sick when I smoked. I am very curious to hear how Sharif's party at LJ's was last night. I would like to hear what Ian Clarke's new project Buildings Learn sounds like. Thomas Fehlmann, Pole, and Akufen are going to play live sets in another couple hours, I cannot wait. I would love to hit a few after parties, but I do not have the strength to burn the midnight oil this weekend.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Sunday, 25 May 2003 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

What, what a shame that the Scroggins family couldn't have stayed up on all the Mille Plateaux releases like you, and get with it. The ESG show in NYC last fall sure had more people dancing and smiling than I've ever seen at a jaded-hipster show in town, and teenage daughter Chistelle's one-note guitar solos said more than most of the music I heard live in 2002. That is, until the show had to end so one of the sisters could get to her job driving an MTA bus at 2am. So much for your theory of them cashing in and living off their big wad.

― Brian Turner (btwfmu), Sunday, 25 May 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

All I am saying is that you can run with the "we never had lessons" gimmick when you are young. If you can't get your act together 20 years later that says quite a bit.

I don't expect micro-nihilist-funk-prog-garage-tech-freestyle-kraut-glitch-micro-tech-break-house from people in their middle age. Frankly, I don't even expect innovation. I expect you to sound better than a luke warm bar band. I expect that if the entire premise of your group is that you play one note with a groove, you are in fact going to play that one note with a groove.

If the music were still there, thumbs up to them. I think it would be great to see them up there and kicking ass. I walked into the venue that day in their corner; I was so geeked to see them. What I saw was just sloppy ridiculous crap. Sometimes you just have to take Grace Slick's advice to aging rockers: after a certain point you need to give it up because it looks silly and tarnishes the legacy of your previous work.

If I said the same thing about The Who's performance for the NYC Firefighters after 9/11 you would agree completely. This is the same situation; there was no artistic reason for this to happen. ESG are the critical darlings that you are not supposed to talk about. It was like being into The Who in 1966 when they were just awesome live machine, and then seeing them come out of nowhere decades later, but now they are old and any velocity or punch that made their records special and unique is now gone. It is just like a corpse being dragged out of the grave and paraded around the streets one more time. You would feel a bit cheated, wouldn't you?

Perhaps they played a great set in NYC. If they were in top form you were lucky. I bet it could have been an amazing show. I wish it had been an amazing show; I had a lot of hope for them. It was real wack last night, like high school battle of the bands wack. I wanted to smile and dance (and I did for Liquid Liquid who I was not nearly as interested in seeing) but it was just bad. Maybe I am a dick for saying so, but it was rough.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Monday, 26 May 2003 01:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn.

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 26 May 2003 02:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, if "having lessons" equates "getting ones act together", I for one would worry about those who shunned a teacher in favor of projecting a unique style and vision. I don't think for example, Jad Fair is, down the line to his later years, "getting away with" anything he hadn't instilled from his first releases. What was so BAD about ESG just out of curiosity? Comparing them to a high school band doesn't quite draw up the right image for me, and it's also quite unfair to say that Martin Hannett was the only reason they were good, because ESG's new disc is pretty true to their initial vision as well. I won't even comment on the "fat Puerto Rican housewives" quip because it really has nothing to do with ANYTHING related to their music (and yes, while you say you don't judge by appearance, you're the one who chose to make that observation on their weight/ethnicity/occupations). They exist with their own musical vocabulary; they were probably the only band to make a perfect hybrid of prototype hip-hop, downtown NYC artiness, and the fact they have turned people on in the UK pop/US indie rock/world-wide hip-hop scenes(the last genre of which features scores of artists who have sampled ESG to large financial benefit for everyone but ESG) makes for an impressive notch on their belt, and it's great that they have incurred enough interest to warrant somewhat of a comeback. I think your "bar-band" tag may be their best asset;here is a group making acoustic-based (not techno/sample/pre-taped) dance music the way they always have, an excellent thing in these technology-reliant musical times.

― Brian Turner (btwfmu), Monday, 26 May 2003 04:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Just got back from the Movement/DEMF -- had some obligations Monday that I couldn't avoid, so I'm missing more cool stuff -- and I have to once again echo Mike's comments fully and completely. Liquid Liquid took their older material and made it sound timeless with a blistering set, while ESG creaked and meandered while saying the words that no audience member in their right mind wants to hear: "now here's a song from our new album."

That's not to say that the new material wasn't somewhat engaging (if slightly rudimentary), but it had the smell of ersatz audio, like a Motown revue pimping a new mail-order-only release that casts a pall over the work that came before. The energy came in fits and spurts, with the ladies leaning on trite crowd exhortations instead of working on bending and shaping the groove. You can make the standard argument about sample karma all you like, but ESG just didn't bring it on Saturday night. It could have been anybody up there, plunking the same three monochromatic notes on the bass guitar with minimal enthusiasm, and that was not the vibe when Liquid Liquid commanded the stage.

Having also seen the amazing Kraftwerk show from 1998, I can think of no better basis of comparison. Without major new material for decades, both bands take on the heft of legend, gaining vigor in the hearts and minds of their followers with each note or mention of their name; that both bands exceeded such lofty and daunting expectations, gaining new fans in the process, qualifies those gigs as golden classics.

Ultimately, my take on the LL/ESG debate boils down to where I positioned myself in the crowd. Liquid Liquid had me front and center, with my hands on the railing and my 6'6" frame blocking sightlines of those behind me. ESG had me leaning on the back wall, wondering where that enticing smell of food was coming from.

― Erick H (Erick H), Monday, 26 May 2003 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Brian, your only argument seems to be you don't like Mike's attitude (and you made some very disconcerting points in the process). From his description I gathered pretty well what they might have sounded like, and I understand that sometimes bands just disappoint.

― Adam A. (Keiko), Monday, 26 May 2003 04:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i saw ESG in december, and they did play one note with a groove. it was a great show, and as brian pointed out, i could see everyone around me dancing and smiling and having a great time. for me it was the best show i saw in 2002.
i wish i'll get to see liquid liquid soon. anyone know if they're ever coming to europe?

― joan vich (joan vich), Monday, 26 May 2003 10:41 (twenty-two years ago)

My personal Movement highlight was watching this Sam Elliot lookalike get down with his all-acidwashed (including hat) missus in the Beatdown tent.

― Andy K (Andy K), Monday, 26 May 2003 10:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow, I'm glad I didn't stick around to see ESG. Liquid Liquid were quite good, but my highlight of the day was Wolf Eyes' set. They just killed! And after seeing Pole last night, I think I can safely say I will never see that many cheers for a melodica again. Too bad it was too crowded near the Music Institute stage. I would have liked to have checked out Moodymann/Theo Parrish/Three Chairs.

Did anyone go to that party at LJ's? Sounded like a great one, but I was just too tired.

― Jeff Sumner (Jeff Sumner), Monday, 26 May 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i wish i'll get to see liquid liquid soon. anyone know if they're ever coming to europe?

Supposedly they will be in the United Kingdom shortly. I may have said too much.

― Vic Funk, Monday, 26 May 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

This Sunday (13/07/03) at 'Optimo', Glasgow, Scotland. The club named after the Liquid Liquid track and home to 99 Records obsessive 'DJ Twitch'. ESG played @ Optimo last year.

Can't seee how they will ever follow this up given that Arthur Russel is with us no more.

See http://www.optimo.co.uk

Andrew

― Andrew Back, Thursday, 10 July 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

...and in London on 15th, as mentioned yesterday on another thread

― zebedee (zebedee), Thursday, 10 July 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Guess I missed this thread first time around. I saw ESG in Brooklyn last year (w/Brother JT and the Styrenes) and it was one of the greatest shows I've ever been to -- eclectic bill, thrilling music, and people just having obviously the most fantastic time -- New York rocksters, dancing. I thought ESG was incredible.

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Thursday, 10 July 2003 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

http://redbullmusicacademy.com/TUTORS.9.0.html?id=9&act_session=79

somewhat interesting interview with Sal.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 8 October 2004 05:18 (twenty-one years ago)

six months pass...

I don't know what to expect!

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 18 April 2005 22:08 (twenty years ago)

expect me on the floor!

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 18 April 2005 23:04 (twenty years ago)

expect me on the floor too!

i am more psyched about esg playing than anything we've put on since liquid liquid. when we put them on at the barrowlands three years ago we were really nervous as we had no idea if they would still be good or not. they took the roof off! it's going to be even better in the more intimate confines of the sub club. we are going to have emerald sapphire and gold lights illuminating the stage although i have a feeling this will go over everyone's head.

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Monday, 18 April 2005 23:17 (twenty years ago)

I am really looking forward to it, then Mike Taylor's initial post above gave me cold feet. Oh well, I shall come with an open mind! And an appreciation for stage lighting.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 18 April 2005 23:20 (twenty years ago)

am=was, but maybe not.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 18 April 2005 23:20 (twenty years ago)

they must have been having an off night when mike taylor saw them. they were truly awesome last time they played glasgow. even lots of the techno boys who went to see richie hawtin who was playing after esg were converted.

i do have to take issue with this though a bunch of fat middle-aged Puerto Rican housewives. so rene (head esg honcho) is a big lady. so what? i couldn't care less what a band look like but i would just like to point out that her daughter who plays guitar is HOT!

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Monday, 18 April 2005 23:42 (twenty years ago)

emerald sapphire and gold lights

goes over my head anyway! im psyched for this though.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 18 April 2005 23:44 (twenty years ago)

I love that "Cavern" clip...I saw Moby play it on his MTV programme a few years ago and was blown away and now I know where they got the clip from it!

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Monday, 18 April 2005 23:49 (twenty years ago)

Emerald Sapphire Gold. geddit?

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Monday, 18 April 2005 23:59 (twenty years ago)

did Liquid Liquid break up again? I was psyched to hear more of that DFA-recorded stuff after that one song on the DFA comp.

― haitch (haitch), Tuesday, 19 April 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

oh i get it i just wanted it spelled out to me*

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 19 April 2005 00:11 (twenty years ago)

I hope not, but that new EP was supposed to be out a long time ago.

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 19 April 2005 00:12 (twenty years ago)

yup, it looks like they have broken up again. shame. i really hope some more of the dfa produced liquids stuff sees the light of day.

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Tuesday, 19 April 2005 00:13 (twenty years ago)

ESG were as good as I hoped when I saw them at said DEMF. I never ever thought that I'd see them live. Liquid Liquid were awesome. I thought ESG were as well, or as awesome as I assumed they could be. But I never thought they'd be "dynamic".

― peepee (peepee), Tuesday, 19 April 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

esg were one of the absolute best live shows i've ever seen. i don't know if i'd ever danced so hard for so long before, and i certainly haven't since. don't be put off at all by the opening review in this post.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 19 April 2005 11:00 (twenty years ago)

That was fucking amazing.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 2 May 2005 13:07 (twenty years ago)

good. more info please.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 2 May 2005 13:14 (twenty years ago)

yeah, please.

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 2 May 2005 13:15 (twenty years ago)

I am in no state for a cogent review. It was just the most wonderful, up for it pulsating crowd, ESG were loving it and playing the tightest bang bang pure rhythm set I've ever heard. And damn they looked good.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 2 May 2005 13:18 (twenty years ago)

Funny story:

My friend hates electronic music. Well, likes some, but mostly extremely trad indie rock. Somehow he wound up at DEMF and not surprisingly hated it. Said it was a huge dumb rave. The one part he did enjoy was seeing Liquid Liquid, a band who he didn't really know but said they sounded like Talking Heads.

― Sir, you're hurling through space and dropped this bag, Monday, 2 May 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

I saw them on Saturday at Koko - they were even better than I expected them to be, and Superpitcher's DJ set afterwards was a thing of joy too.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Monday, 2 May 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

they were so good last night (surprised you didn't go jed). head esg'er rene has lost half her body weight since last time and looked great while her daughter (chistelle) has become the esg crowd manipulator. she is so sassy and whipped up the crowd in a dc go go esque call and response way. they played all the hits and ended with a 5 minute drum and bass workout that elicited the loudest cheers i've heard all year.

two funny comments i overheard during the show -

older lady to her friend - 'is this what the kids are into these days? anyway, i thought esg were an electroclash band. where's the synthesisers?'

clearly underage girl - 'i guess this is the kind of music old people like'.

the other highlight of the night was when the club cut the pa at the very end of the night when 'baby's on fire' was playing and the crowd sang the song word for word. i was in tears.

alba, in case you couldn't remember, the record you asked about was 'underwater' by harry thumann.

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:18 (twenty years ago)

Ah ha! I remembered the underwater bit but not the artist. Was going to ask again. Thank you!

― Old person (Alba), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:33 (twenty years ago)

this week has was a bit of a financial hole for me and also was meeting someone about some possible work this am and needed to be on the ball for that! i'm happy it was a good night and am only s-l-i-g-h-t-l-y envious.

i'm gmailing you the thuman now alba.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 2 May 2005 22:40 (twenty years ago)

It was a wonderful throng. Magical. Chistelle was very sexy (or seemed so at the time). They didn't even play my favourite song and I still liked them.

You were missed, Colin and Cozen.

― Not Quite Old Person (Ally C), Monday, 2 May 2005 23:03 (twenty years ago)

what is your favourite song?

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Monday, 2 May 2005 23:06 (twenty years ago)

We Like To Party (Vengabus)

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 2 May 2005 23:11 (twenty years ago)

um, that'd be Vengaboys

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Monday, 2 May 2005 23:14 (twenty years ago)

My favourite song is Mohammed Sarwar Is Coming (ESG remix).

My favourite song is Erase You.

― Ally C (Ally C), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 10:04 (twenty years ago)

Let me me hear you say Emerald Saphire and Gold!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/despero/esg1.jpg

― ladyintheradiator (ladyinradiator), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 11:19 (twenty years ago)

The flash makes it look a bit like an afternoon show in a youth club. I'm not saying this is bad.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 11:45 (twenty years ago)

Later, there was a table tennis tournament.

― Ally C (Ally C), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 14:33 (twenty years ago)

The ESG show at KoKo's was super-tight! What a great venue! The only disappointing things were: they didn't play my favorite song "My Love For You", and in the Metro they printed that Afrirampo was also playing. Bummer. And: I've never had so many people ask me for drugs before in my life. Why does everybody think that the tall guy in a funny hat must be a drug dealer?

― Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

http://www.optimo.co.uk/bluelightesg.gif

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 00:31 (twenty years ago)

http://www.optimo.co.uk/allesg.gif

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Wednesday, 4 May 2005 00:33 (twenty years ago)

four months pass...

does anybody know anything about any of the music played by the soul jazz djs BEFORE ESG came on at koko? because i really enjoyed it but didn't know ANY of it

― noname#1 (noname#1), Sunday, 11 September 2005 03:13 (twenty years ago)

but still an amazing evening that night at koko, probably the best gig i've been to in at least a year... i couldn't believe how the crowd went epileptic when they started playing 'dance'

so does that scroggins sister still drive buses now? I can't imagine eyoe got them really cheap to play a venue that big.... but they don't look rich to me...

― noname#1 (noname#1), Monday, 12 September 2005 02:54 (twenty years ago)

they all still work relatively mundane jobs and charge quite a lot of money to perform (at least in europe), but frankly, they deserve every penny and more. to answer yr question though, no, they're not rich in the slightest.

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Monday, 12 September 2005 04:45 (twenty years ago)

yr right, they do deserve every penny, they're national treasures

(incidentally, how much do you think they charge?)

― noname#1 (noname#1), Wednesday, 14 September 2005 01:52 (twenty years ago)

four years pass...

So, uh... THEY JUST PLAYED "CAVERN" ON LATE NIGHT WITH JIMMY FALLON. I didn't even know it was going to happen. Jimmy just came back from commercial holding a Liquid Liquid album and said they were going to play "Cavern" and then they did. The Roots were way into it, but I couldn't really gauge the audience. Sounded great, though.

― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 3 April 2010 05:37 (fifteen years ago)

one year passes...

I found this thread ilx searching "louisiana hayride." Based on the following to youtubes dating from 2002 and 2006, I think Mike Taylor might have been full of crap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gr48KCWbww
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6fS5rr9eFM

― bamcquern, Sunday, 2 October 2011 06:53 (fourteen years ago)

two*

I sound stupidly mock-authoritative here.

― bamcquern, Sunday, 2 October 2011 06:54 (fourteen years ago)

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