the pros & cons of music videos

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what are they?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 26 May 2003 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Cons:

1) It supplies the song with only one set of mental images, as opposed to any other associations the listener might make.
2) The emphasis on the visual tends to require that the artist either conform to some version of contemporary good looks or invite abuse for not being so attractive.

Are we just discussing videos here, or are we also discussing MTV and the other carriers that show videos?

― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 26 May 2003 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Pros - can essentially work on the same remit as short films, even independent of the pre-defined soundtrack sometimes, at least potentially. provide a good testbed for new concepts and ideas to difficult or whatever to implement in other areas, obviously provide the artist with a face/image and general platform on which to sell the song tho in recent years many videos have eclipsed the songs they are supposed to be promoting resulting in a flip (e.g. Chris Cunningham videos becoming more recognisable and culturally important than the music they were created for)

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 26 May 2003 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

(videos in general)

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 26 May 2003 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

(in answer to j.lu's query)

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 26 May 2003 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

cons: they are really expensive to make and cause all sorts of marketing blow-outs that the band has to pay back and they end up having to make a crap dull 'record that will sell' the next time around to make up for the really expensive video not marketing their last album well enough.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 26 May 2003 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Cons: I can't mention any remotely popular '80s song without someone going OMG THE VIDEO THE VIDEO THE VIDEO, when I'm more interested in talking about the music, and then they go OH GET OVER YOURSELF THESE ARTISTS WERE IMAGE-CONSCIOUS AND THEIR VIDEOS ARE AS MUCH A PART OF THEIR TOTAL PACKAGE AS THEIR MUSIC, but they still don't talk about the music, and I find that sort of a discredit to the people who went to the trouble to write and record those songs.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 26 May 2003 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

pros: oh that's what they look like err what's on the other channel?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 26 May 2003 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Pros: good videos
Cons: bad videos

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 26 May 2003 22:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Cons:
1) It supplies the song with only one set of mental images, as opposed to any other associations the listener might make.

this is some pansy arsed new age bullshit. next you'll be talkin about non-linearity in music.

Pros: Marketing
Cons: Marketing

― Savin All My Love 4 u (Savin 4ll my (heart) 4u), Monday, 26 May 2003 23:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Pros: the 80s
Cons: the 90s

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

In the 80s with the rise of MM as a Canadian answer to MTV almost any Canadian band with a video no matter how shabby could get airplay and nationwide exposure. The nice little historical story is that this even made a hit of "Im an Adult Now" before the band had any single out.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 00:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i wish i had never heard the pursuit of happiness though.

― keith (keithmcl), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Why not? Love Junk is GREBT!

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

you know there were all these people when videos were new goin' "oh this is awful, it'll never amount to anything good" and then lots of people were like "no no there's no such thing as an invalid form, it's all what you do with it" and then for the most part the former group came around and allowed that videos could be really great but lately I think that they were right in the first place: videos are ass

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

at least 4ad don't appear to be wasting large swathes of $ on videos (if the Breeders' clip for "Huffer" is anything to go by)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 00:47 (twenty-two years ago)

but the brothers quay made some cool videos for his name is alive, 'are we still married?' is fantastic.

― keith (keithmcl), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 00:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Large sums of money on video = dud (unless it involves walking milk containers).

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i guess i meant 'lately'. I don't really see Magnetophone or Sybarite cracking out the big production guns either

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 00:52 (twenty-two years ago)

JBR and John make great points... It frustrates me to talk with people whose first and foremost thought of a band is of their videos, especially since I've lived most of my life without cable and probably haven't seen the videos anyway. Most current music videos are life-negatingly awful.

― Clarke B., Tuesday, 27 May 2003 06:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Pros: If used wisely, music videos can provide you with a mindblowingly amazing form of art to appreciate or a really entertaining series of images that will stick with you for a long time. I know Alex in NYC has mentioned this video before as being one of the best, but it's true -- Belfegore's "All That I Wanted" music video is a terrific example of a grand form of art that one can appreciate as art. It's also one of my favorite music videos of all time. Another music video I love watching is the one for Haysi Fantayzee's "Shiny Shiny" -- for most people looking at the video now, it looks very low-rent, but I feel it's highly entertaining and filled with memorable images that should go beyond just making you think Kate and Jeremy are "weird-looking".

Cons: Most people nowadays don't know how to make music videos. They think that by investing a lot of time on wardrobes, similar-looking flashy sets, choreographers, and "pretty people", they can make a good music video. Wrong. Very few of the truly great music videos involve choreographed dance moves as their central theme. Howard Jones' "What Is Love?" video stands the test of time as being a classic video, and not only was it filmed on a tight budget but it also does things most current videos don't do, i.e. shows characters going through dramatic situations, shys (shies?) away from cheesy dance moves, and looks tasteful instead of gaudy. With the current method of viewing videos in very lazy, formulaic terms, these so-called "directors" disrespect the major strides made by the great classic video directors, e.g. Russell Mulcahy and Steve Barron.

*thinks for a moment*

I guess with that last bit, I was being too restrictive. I mean, certainly there have been music videos made within the last couple of years that have gone against what I stated above, and there were music videos in the '80s that were those cheesy choreographed festivals of nothingness, but it seems even more pervasive these days.

I really don't mind that the visuals I get while listening to a song are the same as the music video. For a long time, I was only able to turn to music videos in order for me to hear the songs I liked without having to get the albums and play them, and the way I got introduced to most of the music I listen to today has been through music video. (This trend is slowly being broken by the sheer virtue of us getting those digital cable audio channels.) And there are certainly times when I will create my own little mental visual accompaniments to a song even though I've seen the music video before.

― Dee the Lurker (Dee the Lurker), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 07:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate the overuse of (conservative/simplistic) allegories.

― nathalie (nathalie), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

yes but that belongs in "the pros & cons of allowing musicians to write words for songs" nath

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 10:26 (twenty-two years ago)

As opposed to letting airplane mechanics write words for songs, as God intended?

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 11:46 (twenty-two years ago)

pros: you don't have to buy pop records. just watch the video channel.
cons: there aren't any!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

mark s, i don't understand english hence i don't have a problem when songwritahs commit that sin. heh.

― nathalie (nathalie), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

pro: the programming on music video channels is now generally more open than radio & less racially segregated.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 12:29 (twenty-two years ago)

(including college radio's "block programming" ghettoization)

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

PRO: videos don't age well. they seem dated very quickly. with a permanent record of how lame things were, it is more difficult to idealize the past so there is a greater premium placed on new music.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Mike Patton on music videos - “Videos cost money. We would rather use that money to make more records or pay bands big fat royalty checks or get hookers and steaks.”

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Pro: A good enough video can improve on a track ratings. it feeds your mind with visuals that you can picture while listen to the track little noticing it has limited appeal (see "Enter Sandman").

Con: as Fritz said videos get repeated too much, and than its just annoy the crap outa me(no matter how good it is) making me fill lesser and lesser of the band wich owns it.

― Jrvision (visionjr), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I should've wrought "some videos tend to".

― Jrvision (visionjr), Tuesday, 27 May 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

pro: the programming on music video channels is now generally more open than radio & less racially segregated.

Aslong as the song is 3 to 4 minutes long, with beauitful people or lots of promotional clout and several chewable easily accessible hooks.

Otherwise free format college radio (not available in TO) still can not be beaten aside from an hour here or there on CBC.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Pro: Tiga's "Hot In Herre". Boogielicious puppets make everything great.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

pros:
-aphex twin, windowlicker
-the avalanches, frontier psychiatrist
-just/street spirit etc radiohead
-almost every bjork video clip
-distroya (spelling?), mouse on mars
-that new beck one
etc etc etc etc

cons:
-playing video clip roulette, where you have to watch 5 bad clips for every good one

― mint condition, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and the yo la tengo sugar cube one where they learn how to be rock stars by going to rock school. (thank you, hal hartley)

re: videos dating
but sometimes that's what makes them so good! like the herbie hancock one with the rigged up dummies, walking and moving. how 80s is that?? and yet, how much does it suit the song?

― mint condition, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 03:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I heard a story that Joan Jett's record company didn't want to finance the "I Love Rock n Roll" video because they thought they would be wasting their money so Joan Jett did it anyway, on the cheap (and in black and white)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 03:50 (twenty-two years ago)

And then the song became a huge hit and the subsequent "Bad Reputation" video mocked all the record-company naysayers who first said "nay" and then changed their vote to "yea"!

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 04:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Pro = Rock Shock

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 11:01 (twenty-two years ago)

or better still, Pro = Rock Shock

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 11:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Con - A great song can be ignored because the video isn't appealing to teens. -or- a shit song can be a big hit because its video is appealing to teens.

Pro - Another Yo La Tengo/ hal Hartley video: "From a Motel 6"

― dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 11:39 (twenty-two years ago)

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