Sorry to have held you back from your true calling

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http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/arts/AP-People-Liz-Phair.html

Talk about selling out in a big way...too bad it's too late for her to get anything out of it. It sounds like she's actually jealous of Sheryl Crow or something...i never thought i'd see the day i could say that!

― Phil Dokes (sunny), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I heard this record the other day and it didn't seem that different from her "indie" stuff. That I've heard her music maybe 5 or 6 times in my life and was able to ID it off the bat speaks to this.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

``Should I pretend to be cool so that you will approve of me? After I had my kid, the revelation I had was, life is incredibly short,'' Phair said. ``I like who I am. And I'm just gonna like what I like and go for what I want go for. It's simple.''

Well then, good for her. I hope the new album tackles this in some way. Though from the other Liz Phair thread, folks seem to think it's horrid. Though it was unclear if the new album was horrid because it's not like Guyville or horrid because it's just not good music.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I really like it Jeanne, for what its worth. If ppl didn't approach it saddled with the indie-baggage knowledge of Guyville and the cult of Liz etc. then I think they'd be much more receptive.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I will admit I've had the song about jizz stuck in my head since I heard it, but there's no way I'd ever buy such a bland album.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

But Liz Phair was sort of bland to begin with, no? It's kind of what made her sound so cool in the first place. (for me, anyway)

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

(oh, and thanks for the tip, sterling.)

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I really like it Jeanne, for what its worth

I have to ask again, Sterling (and I'm not either a cultist or a rabid nonfan of hers, just indifferent) -- is there anything you don't like in the explicitly pop/mainstream sense?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

There's stuff I turn off when it comes on the radio, yes. Any number of new-alterna-rock bands who I can't tell apart, a few ashanti singles really stuck in my craw (tho I luv the new one), and probably plenty of other forgettable r&b and rap. I'm probably fairly alone in disliking, for exmaple, snoops Beautiful (I mean.. and so soon after Xtina totally claimed that title for herself even!?) . But I, y'know, forget it. If it doesn't interest me I don't think about it, don't post about it, etc. The liz phair album was actually in my rotation for about a week and I think I'm going to keep cycling it in -- i.e. I actually like it enough to think about it, to listen to it, and be surprised fairly regularly (at least at first) by all these cool bits that I latch onto with repeated listens.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Fair enough.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I also dislike Snoop's "Beautiful." A lot.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Sterling, I'm interested: You think the record works better divorced from her older work? I think I'm liking it because of its dissonance with the Exile stuff -- how it sort of teases out what was always there lyrically and makes it into a sort of sonic spectacle that finally accurately matches the themes she's always coming back to. I'm sure if I were Average Joe MTV Watcher (if the single's on MTV, anyway) I'd think the songs were catchy and fun and definitely worth hearing, but I'm not sure I'd like them as much, not knowing that the singer wasn't always like she is now. I believe you called this "indie logic" on the other Liz Phair thread, but I'm curious about this other logic.

― Mikael Wood, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I will admit I've had the song about jizz stuck in my head since I heard it
is the jizz stuck in your head the subject of the song? or is the song stuck in your head and it happens to be about jizz?
or all of the above.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

At least on initial listen, I thought it was dreck. I end up having to skip around a little. I'm guessing Avril's album, possibly Sheryl's too, are just simply better. The lyrics weren't noteworthy and the melodies didn't catch my ear. It felt more like a Heather Nova album, except less annoying (and, well, less striking). Oddly enough, "h.w.c." was one of the more straightforward songs on it.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, and I wanted to like it. The idea of the authors of "Never Said" and "Sk8terboi" collaborating sounded like A+ pop to me.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know if it is all THAT different in sound than her earlier albums. More than anything it's kind of showing me the same-y ness of her vocals overall (Maybe i really SHOULD think about trading in Whip Smart?;^).

It's just the shameless grab for the pop brass ring that irks me to no end, what's the point of it?(taking it all too seriously i know) but you really have to be a lot younger in this market to realistically think you're gonna get that, don't you? Let alone want it... Shouldn't the main thing be to make good tracks/art?!? The whole disavowing of indie music too, tho i'm pretty indifferent to that whole genre. It kind of came off that she got as much mileage as she could from that and now wants to just be famous...sad

Oh well, whatever...back to the Manitoba

― Phil Dokes (sunny), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm always embarassed when someone "takes the brass ring" by not just mainstreaming their sound but removing their unique identity and perspective from the lyrics. Like she's gonna "make it" by being faceless. Hey, her face is even hidden by her hair on the cover (at least of the promo's cover), reducing her to legs hair and guitar! Fitting!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I mean, guys, there are a couple of reasons I can think of to lunge for the so-called brass ring: money; fame; the chance to hang out with, I don't know, Pete Yorn. What's so hard to believe about Liz Phair's wanting any or all of those things? If eternal Lounge Ax veneration isn't cutting it for you anymore, I can see how a really nice house would start to look attractive.

― Mikael Wood, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

my point is that she ain't gonna get it without a shtick, and her new album ironically removes all shtick except for the song that's so frightening ("H.W.C.") nobody's gonna buy it. She would have had a better chance having a hit by polishing up "Fuck And Run."

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

she already has a nice house, she's married to a lawyer.

― hstencil, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, a nicer house, then. Or two houses. Whatever. I'm just saying that there are incredibly obvious reasons why someone would endeavor to make a hit record, whether or not it'll actually hit. Interesting point re: shtick, though. I definitely think there's a whole lot of shtick to the album, but the only folks who're gonna recognize it — the only people who'll hear any amount of sub- or intertext to the music — are those who probably won't buy the CD.

― Mikael Wood, Wednesday, 28 May 2003 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

It'll all be worth it if they make a mainstream Hollywood movie based on "White Hot Cum."

― TMFTML (TMFTML), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 23:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm just saying that there are incredibly obvious reasons why someone would endeavor to make a hit record

yes, there are obvious reasons, none of which command any respect. people aren't making fun of liz phair's new album (er.. strategy?) because they can't understand why she would go for the brass ring. they're laughing at a musically crass bid for fame, which has added frisson because liz phair used to be an indie rock icon and also because she's 36.

i think she's embarrassing because it's embarrassing when somebody thinks being upfront about their simple desire for riches n' fame is some kind of ideological triumph. it's embarrassing mostly because it's an argument that works so well... you've got to laugh.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Wednesday, 28 May 2003 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

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