Posh Rock

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Criticism of blur, the strokes and radiohead often seems to base itself on the fact that they are 'posh boys'. Is this symptomatic of critics general sense that they too might be defined as middle class/priviledged (by critics, i don't just mean print journalists but anyone who pursues the above line of reasoning). Is the rejection of bands on this basis related to an increased fluidity in class (where old certainties are no longer so rigid), meaning the fetishization of faded working class signifiers (oasis, loaded magazine etc).

Why does this schism only seem to manifest itself in indie music? the clear class differentiation no longer holds in the same way, it is a schism of the past, so, is the anti-radiohead tendency (on class lines) fighting a battle of the past?

In dance music, the music of the present, this level of reasoning doesn't seem to exist. True, Uk Garage is proletarian in origin, but also highly aspirationalist. House music seems to know no class boundaries, even rave, often characterized as particularly proleterian, crossed all boundaries and deeply penetrated suburbia.

Alan Mcgees dismissal of Coldplay as 'university bed wetters' seems particularly typical of this anti-middleclass feeling (and ignorant of current demographics, where an exponentially larger amount of people now go to univeristy than even 10 years before) i wonder if the indie/rock preoccupation along class lines is emblematic of a fading relevance, while dance music's indifference is a sign of its current vitality?

― gareth, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hmmm... Interesting idea. Is it perhaps something to do with the fact that 'indie music' is perceived by some people as being not only artistically superior to and/or more pleasurable/rewarding than pop music, but also, somehow, of greater cultural and spiritual worth?

And the fact that guitars are quite expensive toys and only 'posh' boys and girls have parents who are wealthy enough to indulge their offspring by purchasing them instruments...

'Indie music' in some ways could be seen as a lifestyle choice available to anyone who can afford it, much like any other lifestyle choice, and the inherant snobbery that is clearly manifest in certain circles extends to patronising anyone who manages to 'escape' from the council estates rather than the suburbs, because, presumably, it's harder.

Hope lies with the proles, possibly?

Oasis, for example, had plenty of fire and passion when their raison d'etre seemed to be escape from Burnage, and, once this escape was assured, they seemed to become a rather bloated and pointless exercise in rock indulgence for the sake of rock indulgence. Aping history in order to acquire some sense of historicity for themselves.

Compare the early Oasis to Coldplay, and we have raging, bile-filled working class ire, versus a rather cossetted and polite bunch of boys with degrees in useful things like ancient Greek literature, who are singing about rather whimsical romantic yearnings.

As for fading relevence and current vitalitiy re; indie and dance (and also pop), socially you're pretty much spot-on. Look at the tabloid papers - noone cares about Gallagher, Ashcroft, etcetera anymore. Why this is so, I do not know.

Artistically though... Well, MC Luck isn't Jason Pierce is he? I know what I choose to listen to for the sake of my soul.

I think part of the problem comes when people are perceived as not really caring about anything, but wanting to appear as if they do. And this pursuit is always easier when one has money.

― Dr Seuss, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yes, there's something deeply spurious going on. On the one hand, you have Blur vs Oasis class war, in which loads of people seem to be brainwashed into thinking that the members of Blur were privately educated, which they weren't. Meanwhile, Noel Gallagher is getting props for working with the Chemical Brothers, who are - working from that McGee-ite stance - nothing if not Southern public school boys. (Alan McGees wife ain't exactly coming up from the streets, either). Anybody who takes any of it seriously is being foolish.

― Mark Morris, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This would appear to be a British phenomenon more than an indie vs dance thing - maybe I'm wrong, but I (thankfully) rarely hear of class-based putdowns of performers in Canada or the US, and when they do happen, it's usually regular folks (not music geeks or critics) attacking entire genres like country or hip hop from from a (perceived) higher position on the ladder.

As for why this happens in the UK to indie and not to house is that one has traditionally had a sort of keepin'-it-real attitude and the other has a history of being more aspirational - it doesn't mean one is more vital than the other. That sort of split has been around for a long time (replace house with Motown and indie with Stones/Hendrix, say) and has more to do with who's playing and who's listening than anything inherent in the sounds themselves.

― Patrick, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Seuss - Are guitars really more expensive than samplers and stuff, though ?

― Patrick, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

nick, i think you have slightly misunderstood what i was trying to get at here.

patronising anyone who manages to 'escape' from the council estates rather than the suburbs, because, presumably, it's harder. i don't think that this is really the case. ie, its not so much patronising council estate types, more fetishizing what perhaps people would like to believe is council estate rock (oasis? embrace? its an essential part of 'the image', whether it is true of course is another matter). but its an image of the past, the world has moved on from this kind of thing.

Hope lies with the proles, possibly?

no, it could be that hope lies with putting to bed a class differentiation that exists only in the media, rather than perpetuating outdated dichotomies. it doesn't lie with anyone.

Compare the early Oasis to Coldplay, and we have raging, bile- filled working class ire, versus a rather cossetted and polite bunch of boys with degrees in useful things like ancient Greek literature, who are singing about rather whimsical romantic yearnings.

yes, but do we though? i think this is a false dichotomy. what is this myth that oasis has to escape Burnage. dude, have you ever been to burnage? there's nothing to escape, its hardly poverty stricken is it? the irony is, of course, that coldplay and oasis are practically identical. the (few) differences are played up precisely because there is very little to seperate

― gareth, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Coldplay and Oasis are practically identical? How, exactly?

And my name is Dr Seuss, not Nick. Thank you very much.

― Dr Seuss, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm sorry, Gareth, not to pick on you, but hasn't this thread been beaten to death and unravelled to knit sweaters with? Who is it making class an issue in the UK? The middle class pointing fingers at those who are more middle class than they are.

Is dance music really impervious to class differentiations? Didn't one of Basement Jaxx go to the same school as Thom Yorke? Why is no one jumping down their throats?

This topic bores me. The problem with "indie rock" is not class, it is that Oasis and Coldplay are virtual indistinguishable from one another. If the genre is dead, then leave it. Isn't this just another thinly veiled excuse to trash "indie" to raise up dance or whatever? If you are going to do that, then do it on aesthetic merits or lack thereof. Stop bringing this "class" non-issue into it. No one cares about class except Momus.

Oh, and the reason that people hate the Strokes has nothing to do with class. It has to do with how revolutionarily dull and insipid their music is.

― Kate the Saint, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

'I think part of the problem comes when people are perceived as not really caring about anything'

Isn't that rock and roll though? Maybe being freed from money concerns allows one to think about other things, and become a more interesting artist, if a worse human being. Then again, I hate Coldplay even worse than Embrace. (Maybe 'indie rock' has lost relevance because the music doesn't deserve it on its own.)
The fiercest year-zero dance-music triumphalists I know have been, without exception, self-hating members of the upper middle class.

― dave q, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

its possible this thread is a little old i agree, but what i wanted to get at wasn't so much a class thing (i don't want this to turn into a tired old debate about who is what bloody class again), but that class is disappearing (well, changing anyway) but many bands/media outlets want to preserve the old certainties

Didn't one of Basement Jaxx go to the same school as Thom Yorke? Why is no one jumping down their throats?

Yes, exactly! This really is the point i wanted to make. one of basement jaxx is posh, but no one cares, no one attacks them (*a good thing*). class isn't judged to be an issue. i didn't want to say dance is proletarian, but that it seems unimportant.

― gareth, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Class not so important when discussing dance artists but usually becomes a strong influence when discussing dance audiences. Cue in depth discussion of various "scenes" - their exclusive/inclusive structures, the assumed empathetic response of certain social groups to the music (Handbag house = Sharon and Tracey; '93 model progressive house = leather pants tosser).

No-one cares about the posh one in Basement Jaxx because dance music presumably has no soul. It seems to me that soulfulness (in the widest sense of the term - one might also include attitude, or rage, or vitality) is the quality usually associated with the working class as a by-product of their resilience. Thus in rock, middle-class bands can be accused of "faking it"; in dance music the concept is irrelevant because all dance music is "fake" to begin with (this is too sweeping of course, because I've heard comparable accusations made in the dance world, but it is at a significantly decreased level).

― Tim, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Though back in the day, as acid house spread across the country, there was a howl that acid teds (ie the lumpen proles) were ruining the whole thing. Mind you, there were those who complained about acid teds then and went on to celebrate Oasis

― Mark Morris, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

mark, is this possibly because acid house was an urban phenomenon, while rave/hardcore was something that swept the whole country. a national phenomenon?

― gareth, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Didn't the 'acid teds' TURN INTO Oasis?

― dave q, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, if not Oasis themselves - Pastels fans, of course - then certainly the people around them

― Mark Morris, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I find the whole class thing exceptionally tedious, especially when it's coming from critics who by the nature of their profession are middle-class themselves. Is it really too much to ask for people to concentrate on the end product and not what kind of a school the band went to?

― DG, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

In America, blissfully conditioned towards the myth that there's no class distinctions (sorta true, sorta not), it's not really an issue per se, or rather it's buried under other terribly loaded assumptions (race as implicit description of class, for instance). A sort of crypto-history of music discussion.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

While the US is obviously more interested in class mobility, I've heard the silver-spoon charges levelled against The Strokes in particular... I think it means they didn't "earn" it somehow, that perhaps Daddy's money paid for rent & ramen so they could suffer for their art, that their uptown connections got them places that others wouldn't get. Maybe it's true, but the one thing that fucking kills me is upper middle class & wealthy kids that feign poverty to achieve street cred... roommates that complain about the price of potatoes, or rolling prison smokes and sipping Thunderbird with a Range Rover parked outside...

― Andy, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Strokes aren't hated cause they're rich, its their dad's connection to their remarkable rise to 'Buzz Band'. Their recorded output consisted of a three song cdep and soon everyone was wetting their pants and the viral marketting campaign was in full swing. Im sure everyone here is on at least one mailing list that has a random person all of a suden post somethign from a link to the band to a full article from the NME about how 'New York' the band is. Even Pavement and Liz Phair had a few cassette tapes out before they got their infamous indie cred, label deal and instant fan base.

― zacko, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If the srokes are hated its becasue they were hyped and couldnt live up to it thus causing let downs. To me they arent bad, but I hear they wer e like TH VElvet UNderground so , I was dissapointed. On the contrary, I heard the Tape Beatles with no hype and I love them.

― Mike Hanley, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Re; Alan McGee's hatred of middle class bedwetters. The first record Creation released was by a self-effacing public school twat. And wasn't Momus on the label too?

― Jerry, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Everything Gareth says on this thread I agree with. I get the impression that he feels that the genres which are going forward, those which inspire and excite people *now*, will be the ones which don't carry outmoded class prejudices with them, which don't need to base a lot of their accompanying rhetoric around barriers in society which hardly exist anymore, which I think is a deeply accurate connection to make.

I think he's also right about the difference between acid house and rave / hardcore (a lot of which IIRC came from London satellite towns: I always associate it with St Albans, Romford, Gravesend, Slough ...). I remember hearing the latter when I first came to Dorset a decade ago, which is when I first realised how wide it had spread ... seems a *very* long time ago now.

― Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Romford! Hooray!

― DG, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Destiny's Child, and other hugely successful chart pop, doesn't much trade in rock's classic tropes of authenticity of origin (then again, neither has a lot of pop for quite a while). DC derives their respect from more a kind of skill polishing, executing perfectly on "the basics", shining at their job description, furthering their well- built pop-machine. Like Larry Bird's relationship to the Boston Celtics. No "natural talent" but a will of iron. At the other end you've got the supposed authenticity of say, Badly Drawn Boy's ramshackle twinklings. His "genius" is casually projected, barely executed, the unduplicatable crumbs of genius dropped onto a crowd ready to receive his "aura". The Magic Johnson to DC's Bird. I know which one I think's posher.

But my analysis falls apart w/Bruce Springsteen.

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i always found the idea of oasis as a rock band especially one of great ferocity really rather funny, they rock less than almost any band i know but then that is probably an english thing too.

― keith, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

robin, yes, thats pretty much what i was saying. i'm not sure i stated myself very clearly originally, as there seemed to be a bit of ambiguity in what people thought i meant.

the rave/hardcore as a town phenomenon i totally endorse. this wasn't particularly a city thing (where trendier progressive house was more likely to occupy the dance clubs). i believe rave follows the northern soul pattern, in having places like wigan, stoke and doncaster as being important (although of course, as you say, there was the added m25 thing going on too - DG, romford was an essential part of hardcore)

― gareth, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Salutations to Everett True, who is of course referring to himself when he points out that McGee's first release was by public schoolboy The Legend! (Haven't seen you here before, Jerry, welcome!)

I was on Creation, and used to sit for hours in the office reading Ovid in the original Latin to Yvonne McGee, Alan's orginal working class wife. She was, naturally, charmed.

There were lots of us posh boys on the label: Nikki Sudden was posh, as was Guy Chadwick.

Kate is quite right, I am the only British person interested in class. In fact I walk around Tokyo just thinking of a British person and wondering what class he is this week, back in Britain. For instance, I am (today) upper middle class. Kate is middle upper class. Robin is lower upper middle lower class (special branch).

Why don't we all pause in this thread to announce our exact social class on the British Imperial Class Scale? Especially the 'indie' musicians.

― Momus, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

British Imperial Class Scale determined by SCIENCE AND LOGIC name you give to porcelain receptacle for bodily waste...

― mark s, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Poor Gareth, all he wanted was a thread about the "classlessness" of dance music. And dance music is about as classless as America, idnit?

What is this class system via porcelain server of which you speak, Mark? We know nothing of this in the Icen Forests of New York.

― Kate the Saint, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

it wasn't just that kate ;)

i was interested in why some areas of music don't seem to focus on it, didn't necessarily want to focus on a dance vs indie type thing (for example, i have no idea what class piano magic are, isn't an issue there either).

am interested in why certain areas (not really indie as a whole at all) have a hangup about this subject, despite its fading relevance. could also add in heavy metal here. i don't much about metal, i don't imagine the class battles of 25 years ago being fought in heavy metal.

i had thought that a large swathe of mainstream indie musics boisterous big up of 'w/class-ness' was clear indication that these things are no longer obvious or clear cut, so a desperate search for some sort of identity in a more fluid world.

― gareth, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i don't know what the fuck happened to my phrasing and grammar there. sorry!

― gareth, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Class battles were never fought in heavy metal because heavy metal was so overwhelmingly proletarian.

"I'm not gettin' back in ver van until you say we're 'eavy meh'ul!!!"

― Kate the Saint, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Isn't Bruce Dickerson (lead screamer of Iron Maiden) some sort of aristocrat?

― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The Dandios is symbolic of the Proletarean uprising in the icen forests! Will Katerella ever save the poor floppy haired drone rock boy from Anita.

Sorry that had nothing whatsoever to do with music or the thread.

― zacko warner, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Re: McGee and the working class.

ALL of the Loft were unbelievably posh... as evinced by the positions they now hold in society. Pete Astor, in particular, was scarily posh. (No, I don't mean he was like two of the Spice Girls. I mean that he spoke with plums in his mouth.)

Incidentally, it's occured to me several times ever since reading McGee's comment about 'university bed wetters' and Coldplay - if the alternative is rock made by well-adjusted jocks (the American meaning) or bullies, then give me a bed wetter any time. I thought the purpose of rock music was to give the outcast, the bullied a voice they wouldn't have otherwise. Or am I missing something fundamental here? (Probably. That would explain why I cannot relate to people who relate to R.E.M and Genesis.)

― Jerry, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

mmmmmm.... plums in my mouffshs [drools homerically]

― mark s, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the hardcore / progressive house dichotomy Gareth mentions is *excellent*, and an example of metropolitan cliquishness being, in fact, much less progressive than what was going on in less fashionable places. Reynolds is excellent on this dichotomy, of course. I only mentioned Romford because, as Gareth says, it was an essential part of hardcore (weren't Suburban Base located there?), not to please DG :).

I've always thought of old-school metal as being very very *very* provincial-proletarian, as gabba and happy hardcore became, so the association it brings on for me (if it means anything at all) is Rotherham-prole 20 years ago rather than Camberwell-prole 20 years ago. Even Iron Maiden came from "unfashionable" East London / Essex. Nu-metal seems to me neither metropolitan nor provincial, and less traditionally prole, but that probably just underlines the break- up of those boundaries over that time.

Momus: I didn't initially recognise Jerry's self-referencing, though I like it now. I don't think of myself in class terms, and I find it rather amusing that someone might. If I had one, though, it would be Imperial Pre-Thatcherite Aspirational Cultured Upper-Working-Class.

― Robin Carmody, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nu-metal is very lower-middle-class. Quite conservative, pretensious with no substance and sneers at the proles, in this case the kevs wot like garage etc.

― DG, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't know, I think nu-metal could well be a cross-class experience. It certainly seems to be cross-gender and probably race: at least the girls who look like Sade on the 322 down to Tulse Hill wear Slipknot patches on the back of their billowing flares. As for old metal, hmmm. Depends how you're defining 'metal': AC/DC were huge at one fairly posh school I attended briefly (cue lots of bores telling me the DC are hard rock or something)

― Mark Morris, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"class thing" specifically British. No. "Class" is more seeable there, it's on the surface (mebbe b/c so many of your writers and taste-makers are so heavily invested in their own positions on the scale). You guys have a lot of signification bound up in a term as unassuming as "middle". Here in America we labor under the illusion that we have no classes, only relative money-earning potential (anyone who would even use the word "class" is gotta be some kinda college-edjicated bookworm) - ignoring historical family trends, etc. It's fun to go over to England because Americans simply are not part of your game. We don't fit in the memorized grid so are simply free to roam where we see fit - often places we wouldn't be allowed in our own country. I've discovered that so much of what I like abt going to Scotland is not the geographical journey but the class one; it's a trip that wd be much more difficult in NYC.

"dance music" is indifferent to class. No again. 1st: hip hop is dance music. hip hop is obsessed w/class and how class is represented. The jillions of hip hop videos starring guys w/representations of off-screen wealth, bling bling, diamonds, gold rope, cooking up patty melts on the kitchen stove. Check "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx" where Raekwon's emptying out the coffee pot. All the bling bling in the world ain't gonna change these guys. They repreSENT, right? We've gone from Rakim saying "it ain't where ya from, it's where ya AT" - pure class aspiration - to Capadonna's impossibly nuanced: "I'm too ill / I represent Park Hill / See my face on a 20 dollar bill". As if he could circulate himself, some essence of the 'hood; as if he could author his own economics. Music and money are the only common currencies he sees.

Then there's "proper" dance music. And the intimation that it's indifferent to class. When I go to Scotland, dance music seems much more working-class to me than it does here. When you go out dancing you take care not to dress too nice. Yer there for the bangin choons mate. Here, except for pockets of 80s holdovers and Loft refugees, dance music is much more... erm... "middle class" - guys from the suburbs driving their SUVs into the city, tarted-up girls w/lip-liner trying to look cosmopolitan, tight black shirts, etc. Maybe dance music allows a kind of class tourism - girls who work at the mall in Jersey can come over the bridge with the right clothes on and be queen for a night at Twilo. Intellectuals and music writers can 'slum it' at Frank's Lounge. What does each groop want? How come dance music (seems to) provide it?

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Mark: my (stereotypical?) association with old-school metal is more geographical (i.e. metropolitan rather than provincial) than class- based.

Tracer: I agree totally that the supposed "classlessness" of America, so tantalising to Brits in the 50s and 60s especially, is a fiction or, at least, a grotesque simplification. For myself, I much prefer the UK dance scene to the one you describe.

― Robin Carmody, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

'Classlessness' is a great concept for preventing people from questioning anything, if they start turning their hatred inward it's the perfect social safety valve. So the needs of the many supersede the needs of the few! Isn't that what most well-meaning people want?

― dave q, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Perhaps, Dave, your disdain for "classlessness" explains why you read a magazine as ludicrously class-conscious as the Spectator.

"Turning their hatred inward": this sounds perilously close to the idea that people from certain social backgrounds only like hip-hop / R&B / chartpop / rave etc. because they're ashamed of themselves and therefore I think you're talking bollocks.

I have questioned many aspects of British society, and I don't believe that "class" is particularly important these days, though 40 years ago things were very different.

― Robin Carmody, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Robin, I am being extreme. My descriptions of the "bridge and tunnel" crowd are very uncharitable, especially since I'm an interloper too.

Maybe I'm saying that dance halls in the US are places to experiment w/class, be someone else? Rather than putting yourself in the lead singer's place as at a rock show (leading to that sploogy moment when Lead Singer Looks at You - or you think they do - completing the circle of narcissism), you're putting yourself in the body of someone from a place or past you can only guess the outlines of, of someone you want to become.

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I note that the conversation seems to have drifted away from a discussion of artists to a discussion of audiences - a point on which yes, I would particularly distinguish dance music as being class-based. But comparing something as vague as an audience to Coldplay is somewhat meaningless (Coldplay's audience is something else again) because the relative class of the artist and their fans do not necessarily coincide.

― Tim, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I've seen Coldplay live about four times, I think, I'm not entirely sure why.

And at most of these gigs (probably all, I was absolutely paralytic at one of them) there was a high proportion of what appeared to be middle-class teenage girls in flares with ickle backpacks and mousey hair.

Which is probably a large part of the reason I was there.

Aesthetics, you see?

― Nick Southall, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I wasn't being disdainful of classlessness.

― dave q, Thursday, 26 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

...nor self-hatred particularly, plus I was talking about the US

― dave q, Thursday, 26 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

nine years pass...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9373000/9373158.stm

My son James Blunt, who is hugely appreciated worldwide, receives harsh criticism here and we have, rather sadly, been aware that it is because of his back ground. We are relieved that on the whole James's fan base take no notice of the critics.
Jane Blount, Hampshire

So... does it matter?

― sometimes all it takes is a healthy dose of continental indiepop (tomofthenest), Friday, 28 January 2011 10:06 (fourteen years ago)

kate bush is p posh but ppl seem to accept that *ponders*

― zvookster, Friday, 28 January 2011 10:20 (fourteen years ago)

Skipping 5 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Singer James Blunt's mother has defended her son against "harsh criticism" from British critics over his public school background.
Jane Blount contacted BBC Radio 4's Today programme after hearing a feature about an increase in pop stars who have been privately educated.
During the report, record producer Pete Waterman said the music industry had become "snobbish".
Mrs Blount said it was unfair Blunt was criticised "because of his background".
The feature mentioned the likes of Lily Allen, Florence Welch and Coldplay's Chris Martin, who all attended private schools.
However, Blunt who attended independent boarding school Elstree in Berkshire, Harrow School in Harrow on the Hill and the University of Bristol, was not mentioned.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote
We are relieved that on the whole James's fan base take no notice of the critics”
End Quote Jane Blount
In an email to the programme, Mrs Blount said: "I was most interested to hear Pete Waterman's thoughts on public school rock stars.
"His attitude is reflected by most of the critics in the UK. My son James Blunt, who is hugely appreciated worldwide, receives harsh criticism here and we have, rather sadly, been aware that it is because of his background.
"We are relieved that on the whole James's fan base take no notice of the critics."
She went on to say that his latest album, Stay the Night, "is doing so well around the world".
Waterman, best known for his production team Stock, Aiken and Waterman - which worked with pop artists like Kylie Minogue in the 80s, said the argument that pop stars must now be educated was worse than it has ever been.
"The major companies dominate and they see a CV and if you haven't got 96 O levels, you ain't getting a job," he said.
"In the old days, you got a job in the music industry because you knew something about music. Now when they see your CV they don't take you unless you've been to university, full stop."
"It's become snobbish. It's become a snobbish culture."
Mrs Blount said she felt Waterman's argument was flawed.
"Peter Waterman contradicted himself finally as he said that no number of exams will make you popular or successful in the music world."
Today presenter Evan Davis told listeners: "We're very pleased that Mrs Blount listens to the programme."

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Friday, 28 January 2011 14:11 (fourteen years ago)

"In the old days, you got a job in the music industry because you knew something about music. Now when they see your CV they don't take you unless you've been to university, full stop."

This is the most dumb as dirt observation in the whole article, full stop.

― kkvgz, Friday, 28 January 2011 14:13 (fourteen years ago)

two years pass...

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2014/jan/26/working-class-hero-posh-britain-public-school

― ۩, Sunday, 26 January 2014 14:12 (eleven years ago)

Quartet Clean Bandit have gone straight to the top of the UK singles chart with Rather Be, featuring Jess Glynne.

Clean Bandit, which includes brothers Jack and Luke Patterson, was formed when three of the members were at the University of Cambridge

― ۩, Sunday, 26 January 2014 20:32 (eleven years ago)

why do you think the charts of full of private schoolkids?

― Pedro Mba Obiang Avomo est un joueur de football hispano-ganéen (nakhchivan), Sunday, 26 January 2014 20:38 (eleven years ago)

four weeks pass...

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/feb/23/research-pops-posh-takeover-hijacked-stars-privately-educated

― Scooby Doom (۩), Sunday, 23 February 2014 12:56 (eleven years ago)

ten months pass...

christ

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/jan/19/james-bluny-classist-gimp-chris-bryant-diversity-privileged-arts

― piscesx, Monday, 19 January 2015 14:11 (ten years ago)

Not read this thread through but am always aware that the Birthday party were public school (fee paying) educated. & they were one of the most scabrously rocking bands ever weren't they?

― Stevolende, Monday, 19 January 2015 14:24 (ten years ago)

I always wonder if Blunts tweets are ghostwritten

― MaresNest, Monday, 19 January 2015 15:09 (ten years ago)

Having stuck up for him upthread, it seems he is a dickhead after all.

― Peas Be Upon Ham (Tom D.), Monday, 19 January 2015 15:13 (ten years ago)

Bryant writes back: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/19/chris-bryant-letter-james-blunt-in-full

― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 19 January 2015 15:52 (ten years ago)

James Blunt has been honing his skills of the sharp-tongued retort in the training room of Twitter for the last five years, and now he's taken it onto the pitch, with a red-blooded, forensically-skilled takedown of MP Chris Bryant.

READ ALSO:
James Blunt Just Won Twitter, And Here's Why
James Blunt Tells HuffPostUK: 'I'm Not Worried About Five Men With Their Trousers Round Their Ankles'

If Chris Bryant had realised just how many antagonists Mr Blunt chews up before breakfast, he perhaps wouldn't have aimed his bow in this particular direction - name-checking the former Army officer turned balladeer in his list of "posh people from privileged backgrounds" currently crowding the cultural scene.

― hot takes: audit in progress (DJ Mencap), Monday, 19 January 2015 19:29 (ten years ago)

(god Huffington Post is lamentable horseshit)

― hot takes: audit in progress (DJ Mencap), Monday, 19 January 2015 19:30 (ten years ago)

james-bluny-classist-gimp-chris-bryant-diversity-privileged-arts

― venting lex stream anger. (wins), Monday, 19 January 2015 19:32 (ten years ago)

the bluny bleft

― venting lex stream anger. (wins), Monday, 19 January 2015 19:32 (ten years ago)

Dorian nails it http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2015/jan/19/james-blunt-letter-chris-bryant-paranoid-wazzock

― Cosmic Slop, Monday, 19 January 2015 19:42 (ten years ago)

'wazzock' uncalled for imo

― rip van wanko, Monday, 19 January 2015 19:51 (ten years ago)

Yours bluntly
Chris

How to!

― Mark G, Tuesday, 20 January 2015 12:10 (ten years ago)

four years pass...

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/dec/27/sports-team-the-indie-stars-romanticising-middle-england

“I really like roundabouts, Britain in Bloom competitions, local parish newsletters,” he says. “High streets are covered in people’s symbols of belonging – like an Emma Bridgewater tin.”

― calzino, Friday, 27 December 2019 10:47 (five years ago)

never going to slag off sleaford mods ever again!

― calzino, Friday, 27 December 2019 10:50 (five years ago)

Two ghouls one world cup

― Bojo Rabid (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 December 2019 10:51 (five years ago)

lool!

― calzino, Friday, 27 December 2019 10:53 (five years ago)

basically they seem to make Belle and Sebastian look like Crass, a new level of twee bullshit was required for the UK in an era of the most right-wing government since the 30's.

― calzino, Friday, 27 December 2019 10:59 (five years ago)

never going to slag off Mumford & Sons ever again

― Soup on my lanyard (Tom D.), Friday, 27 December 2019 11:01 (five years ago)

Having heard their music there’s no way six people were needed to produce it, so they must be practicing some form of Keynesian job creation at least (or some form of internship for the connected).

― michaellambert, Friday, 27 December 2019 12:15 (five years ago)

Hard pass.

― pomenitul, Friday, 27 December 2019 13:10 (five years ago)

This lot turned up on a playlist the other week, knowing nothing about them I didn't mind their music. What they're describing though - pastoral-mundane English observational indie - has been done better obviously, and by people who aren't so giddily reprehensible. For the direct antidote, I prescribe the last Trust Fund album

― imago, Friday, 27 December 2019 13:53 (five years ago)

At least our lyrics were written on a laptop in the studio, desperately trying to find a word that rhymes with rhododendrons,” Knaggs grins. “It doesn’t have to be a wilted rose to have some great significance – it could be a Motorola. It doesn’t have to be a skull, or a child smoking – it could be Ashton Kutcher.
“There’ll always be a place for post-punk, but no one’s doing anything that new in it. Fontaines played last week and the average age [in the crowd] must have been mid-40s – brilliant, but it’s not that punk. It’s incredibly wealthy craft-ale fans. You go to our front row, it’s kids, it feels more vital and important.”

Send this person to Sesame Street on Ice, that would be mindblowing. Lots of kids there.

― Hereward the Woke (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 27 December 2019 18:10 (five years ago)

Last bit otm tbf to the lad

― Bojo Rabid (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 December 2019 18:21 (five years ago)

Or rather youth = excitement is bullshit but dadpunk = lolstalgia is truth bomb

― Bojo Rabid (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 December 2019 18:23 (five years ago)

Wait hang on I've just remembered I don't care about any of this cobblers

― Bojo Rabid (Noodle Vague), Friday, 27 December 2019 18:24 (five years ago)

Vampire Weekend seem to be one of the few bands who body 'posh rock' successfully

― YOU CALL THIS JOURNALSIM? (dog latin), Friday, 27 December 2019 18:25 (five years ago)

counterpoint: no, yuck

― imago, Friday, 27 December 2019 18:30 (five years ago)

counter counter point, who then?

― YOU CALL THIS JOURNALSIM? (dog latin), Friday, 27 December 2019 18:59 (five years ago)

Pink Floyd Rules

― Soup on my lanyard (Tom D.), Friday, 27 December 2019 19:12 (five years ago)

Vampire Weekend seem to be one of the few bands who body 'posh rock' successfully

― YOU CALL THIS JOURNALSIM? (dog latin), Friday, December 27, 2019 12:25 PM (fifty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

counterpoint: no, yuck

― imago, Friday, December 27, 2019 12:30 PM (fifty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

ok i'm not a huge VW guy by any means but come the fuck on, this sports team shit is abysmal oh my god

it SOUNDS SO BAD, the that horrific flat compressed production

these kids sound like they born as the result of a 20 gig Ipod fucking a 2002 VW Beetle

there's this whole new form of indie where you can tell the only goal is to get placed in a 30 second TV spot

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 27 December 2019 19:27 (five years ago)

not heard the band yet. they sound abysmal but my brother seems to be a fan of this really bland style of indie where there's zero dynamic range and everyone sounds like a pale imitation of Real Estate (if you can imagine that). He 'treated' me to a playlist over Christmas

― YOU CALL THIS JOURNALSIM? (dog latin), Friday, 27 December 2019 20:04 (five years ago)

my point wasn't necessarily that these guys are good, it's that vampire weekend's aesthetic annoys me as well. 'posh rock' done well? prog i guess

― imago, Friday, 27 December 2019 20:17 (five years ago)

those nice chaps from genesis

― imago, Friday, 27 December 2019 20:17 (five years ago)

contempo 'posh rock'? will consider

― imago, Friday, 27 December 2019 20:18 (five years ago)

so like, stuff rich white people like?

― sarahell, Friday, 27 December 2019 20:52 (five years ago)

or people with rich aspirations who are at least middle or upper middle class? ... we can probably search ilx for music gabbneb liked and then decide which of it isn't horrible?

― sarahell, Friday, 27 December 2019 20:53 (five years ago)

Many xps to UMS: Sports Team sound like what happens when a bands formative musical influences have all come from the soundtrack of The Inbetweeners.

― michaellambert, Friday, 27 December 2019 20:56 (five years ago)

no, music made by poshos

― imago, Friday, 27 December 2019 20:57 (five years ago)

like Zooey Deschanel?

― sarahell, Friday, 27 December 2019 21:13 (five years ago)

Taylor Swift?

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 27 December 2019 21:42 (five years ago)

why is prog rock 'posh'?

― YOU CALL THIS JOURNALSIM? (dog latin), Friday, 27 December 2019 21:50 (five years ago)

my point about VW is that they are knowingly posh. they embrace their preppiness, their backgrounds as a consciously intrinsic part of their lyrics and musical reference points

― YOU CALL THIS JOURNALSIM? (dog latin), Friday, 27 December 2019 21:52 (five years ago)

yeah lj gonna have to see your statistics on how prog musicians as a whole came from privilege

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 27 December 2019 22:01 (five years ago)

Jon Anderson, the Singing Milkman to thread.

― Soup on my lanyard (Tom D.), Friday, 27 December 2019 22:17 (five years ago)

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