C/D Modern-day artists who use gospel choirs

::whimpers::

Dude! I've been censored! Call the moderators! Raise the alarm! My posts aren't going through!

Ha-hem.

Sometimes, when used IN MODERATION (rather than on EVERY BLOODY SONG, Mr. Jason Pierce) it can be really beautiful - like the angel voices of heaven coming in to draw attention to/add meaning to a particularly pithy phrase or beautious melody. But most of the time it's this sort of "Look at me, I got soul" ploy.

I was listening to Spz Volume 1 at Joe's house, and I forget the track, but there's one song where he literally has a choir just come in for one line or one verse, and it's devastating, makes shivers go down my spine.

But when Damon Albarn does it - TERMINATE WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE!!!

I'm sure if I was in the London Gospel Community Choir (big mental leap here) or something, I wouldn't turn down an invitation to back Blur if asked, for a laugh (or money). But it is a shame that backing white indie groups is the only way to get into the mainstream. then again, I suppose gospel has its roots in church and community and maybe isn't about hit-making to the extent of some other music.

And I'm having a hell of a lot of trouble thinking of the reverse. The closest I can come up with is that Janet Jackson track on the breast album where she has an opera singer on the track.

I suppose it's projection on our part, assuming that people like Pierce and Albarn are trying to hijack some "soul" (oh no authenticity alert!) or the like. Perhaps they just like the way the music sounds, and it's white middle class indie guilt for attributing motives to it.

Fair enough, but usually this wouldn't be an issue, I mean think how many white artists you like who borrow from rap/blues/funk but do it well. Maybe these gospel-pirates really do suck!!!!

It depends on the track though really, it works acely on Spiritualized records when deloyed sparingly and less well at other times. Tender is better with the gospel bits than it would be without but this doesn't stop it from being big puddle of heave. I really loved the buried-under-but-THERE use of them on Electricity by Suede but I may be in minority here.

No, seriously, I think it might be the pseudo-religious overtones being used on music which is seriously *not* religious. Well... no, not really. Funny because I *don't* have a problem with choirboys being used on tracks, for example, thinking of that Stones song. It's not even the *sound* of gospel or the texture that I have a problem with, it's this whole image of "Oh look at me, I am a deep soulful artist putting gospel choirs on my records". Which is a projection and not exactly fair.

But it's like there's not even an attempt at integrating the choir into the music, making the music soulful or spiritual (heh) - it's just this tacked on thing. Funnily enough, the more Pierce stuck gospel choirs on, the *less* soulful or spiritual his music appears to me. The rock becomes blander, and any spirituality derived from it is from a tacked-on gospel choir, rather than it being genuinely transcendant.

Which is kind of how I feel about Spacemen 3 and drugs.

sonic did songs about drugs.

either way, they were all about dying, as a buddy of mine once theorized.

I think they're just songs about transcendance, however you may find it. Or maybe just death. Dunno.

That said, I can't think of a single Spacemen 3 song with a bloody gospel choir on it. And that's a good thing.

It might be a personal prejudice, but gospel music is not supposed to sound super glossy and up-to-the-minute when it comes to production. Gospel music always *sounds* crappy when you try to make it sound professional and commercial. Gospel music is supposed to sound like it was made in a backwoods southern church on the second Sunday morning in July of 1957 with a 1/4 reel-to-reel tape machine and a single condenser microphone. It is supposed to sound like little Richard cranked on meth singing about Satan. It is supposed to sound gritty and horrible, with tons and tons of tape overdrive and compression. You should be able to hear a bit of a song, then the preacher should start yelling during the organ break about how the devil is right behind your back and he is maliciously perpetrating acts of mischief and deceit in order to drag god's true believers off the righteous path into a wilderness of affliction and oppressive darkness but if you keep your eyes on the rock of our salvation he will never faltaahhh, he will never betrayaahhh, he will never...*the sound of a woman screaming and passing out*...turn his backaahhh...*I know that’s right*... he will never remove his handaahhh...*you tell it*...The lord is our Shepard and providaaahhhhh...dramatic pause... and in him we will have STRENGTH! Sing it choir!!! And then the drums kick in and the whole church goes completely batshit and they rock out for like 4 minutes about how crappy the devil is.

You might be able to get that same band into a studio and record it, but you will never be able to get that kind of a vibe on tape outside of a church. The more slick and commercial you try to make it sound the further you take it away from that vibe that makes that music truly great. Gospel music is supposed to make you go completely apeshit, you are supposed to lose your mind to that stuff. It is the original rock and roll.

The only gospel on an indie record that I have ever liked was Stars On ESP by His Name Is Alive because Warn Defever understands how gospel music should sound and that was what he tried to do with the coda for that album. The first part of the coda sounds like a backwoods choir recorded behind a layer of crackle and tape hiss and then as the albums main motif (this world is not my home, I'm just passing through, I can't live at home in this world anymore...) is stated he brings in a less distorted version of the choir repeating the motif for the final time and then Erika Hoffman sings "when this world is over and done I will sleep all day when I get home" and then the album is done.

See, I always liked this song too -- Dave Q, Chuck Eddy and I can form a trinity against the hate. If you will.

Gospel music is supposed to sound like it was made in a backwoods southern church on the second Sunday morning in July of 1957 with a 1/4 reel-to-reel tape machine and a single condenser microphone.

But Mike, this reminds me of something similar on a bluegrass thread, where it was the limitations/technical abilities available for recording at a particular time which determines what something 'should' sound like. The actual people there at a church service in a backwoods southern area etc. aren't hearing it that way. I see your point in that there's much to enjoy aesthetically from that combination -- in the same way that lo-fi is seen to succeed precisely because it is lo-fi recording, for better or worse. But should this in fact be the end-all and be-all?

Also, Dan to thread.

I second Mike's emotion that gospel is the original rock'n'roll - and frankly it's way more fucking exciting and spontaneous when treated as Mike describes above. I never could fucking stand guitar players...

Any Fule Kno that 'Like A Prayer' is the best goddamn pop single of its generation

Personally, if I had to stick gospel into a genre, I would stick it into "old" music. Modern gospel keeps going and evolving, but it just doesn't do it for me like the older stuff does (or the stuff that sounds like older stuff). I think a lot of it has to do with the recording technology, the social circumstances of the period, and the fact that the music has a perceived historical flavor that modern music does not have.

The people who are doing commercial gospel these days are more than welcome to do it as far as I am concerned. I like the older stuff because it seems to have an energy that the new records do not have. I think part of it is that Gospel has intentionally removed part of its sound because of the success of secular music’s like early R&B and rock and roll. That raw sonic drive has been removed because the last five decades of musical history in America that drive has become a signifier of rock.

Also, the gospel production sound of today is taking more cues from modern R&B, Adult contemporary, and Smooth Jazz. This is not right or wrong, it is being marketed towards older black adults and I am not in that category. I am a 20-something white man who has rockist tendencies. Old gospel appeals to me in the same way old rock and rhythm does. I just happen to like that particular production aesthetic, in my mind gospel should sound like old rock, not smooth jazz.

Neither one is better than the other, I just happen to prefer the old way more. I think it is rawer, and less overtly commercial than contemporary gospel. And like I said, the people who are making contemporary gospel are not trying to sell records to people like me.

...both posts.

i dunno,the velvet underground got away with it
and whose to say its not entirely religious
i dont think religious themes and imagery should be off limits for people who aren't religious...

fucking stop writing about them then!! for christ's fucking sake!

Foreigner - "I Want to Know What Love Is"
Madonna - "Like a Prayer"
Blur - "Tender"

Beyond that general rule, it doesn't mean much to me whether it's a gospel choir, medieval churchy choir, children's choir, etc.

Dunno what "hate" Ned was referring to - I thought EVERYBODY loved that song! Everyone including that OTHER trinity of aging first-generation rockcrickets, namely Marsh/Marcus/Xgau.

OTM. The kid's choir songs I think of are the Stones (which seems like the only song that worked, ever) and an abominable song on Ride's Carnival of Light, "I Don't Know Where It Comes From," I think.