rfd : the indestructible beat of soweto

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jess & matos & etc etc to thread.

― Ess Kay (esskay), Sunday, 15 June 2003 07:54 (twenty-two years ago)

rfd = request for destruction?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 15 June 2003 08:07 (twenty-two years ago)

appetite for discussion

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 15 June 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

one of my favorite records evah, but i was once mocked in an IM chat for it, so i don't talk about it in public anymore

― jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 15 June 2003 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

proving once again that Malcome Mclaren was actually the most interesting part of the sex pistols.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Sunday, 15 June 2003 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

That's one of those records that was feted as a classic so often for so long and played so often in various social settings, record stores, etc., that I got a little sick of it and haven't listened to it in years. I'm not even sure I still own a copy. If I want to hear something from that time/place, that's not where I would go anyway (search Boyoyo Boys, Malathini, or Malombo). Nonetheless, I remember it being a lot of fun way back when. I never bothered with the additional volumes; anyone else?

― Lee G (Lee G), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i've never been able to find any. i found the first volume used a few years back.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I've always wondered what is the big deal with this record. I've never heard it. I mean, I own a ton of world music stuff on labels like Shanachie, Ocora, Globestyle, Inedit, Folkways, Rounder, Nonesuch, et fucking cetera. What makes this so great, #1 all-time, etc? Just because Xgau always big-upped it? It's an easy way "in" for rock people or something?

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

it's very "pop"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

with like synthesizers and everything

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

also, paul simon

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

well, he's not on the record, but you know what i mean

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, yeah that's what I sort of figured. Simon, that is. Isn't this the reissue of the cassette that he said he found that inspired Graceland or something like that?

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i think so. it's a really "fun" listen. kinda...sweet'n'sour? there's a real melancholy to a handful of the tracks and then there are a few which are total upbeat afropop with little vocoded (or equivalent) touches thrown in.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

it's become a total tokenist pick, for sure, but i don't feel bad for that. could be worse. i mean, the fela box is the best fela record too, etc.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

the cassette that turned P.S. on is Gumboots: Sax Jive Hits no. 2. I.B. is still no. 1 for me because having listened to a lot of the stuff myself I've never heard anything better, which is not to say "as good"--I play Kings & Queens of Township Jive: Modern Roots of the Indestructible Beat of Soweto just as much. it's all early '70s stuff, faster and more R&B than the first Indestructible Beat, and way more giddy. as Jess sez, the sweet/sourness of TIBOS makes it a bit richer.

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

as far as other additional vols. go, try Dark City Sisters & Flying Jazz Queens, a comp of those two groups (the latter get 2 songs, the former 14) after the first and K&QOTJ:MROTIBOS. then go for Fire Before Dawn, vol. 2, and vol. 6, South African Rhythm Riot. vols. 3-5 are good not great. and I'm strangely unmoved by A Taste of the Indestructible Beat of Soweto, which cherrypicks later vols. but doesn't program them very well.

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I think "Soweto Never Sleeps - Classic Female Jive from South Africa" (also on Shanachie) is a better record. And "Singing in an Open Space: Zulu Rhythm and Harmony 1962-82", (Rounder), is better, too.

― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't.

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

(they're really fucking good, though, particularly SNS)

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i got into this stuff when i was lucky enough to go on a family trip last year to Johanesburg. i picked up Kings & Queens of Township Jive and, besides a couple of songs, it kicks ass.

the first time i heard any of this stuff, i immediately thought, "oh shit, that's the african music david byrne was listening to". there are sometimes when i almost feel like he put out covers of some of these songs.

― JasonD (JasonD), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Well yeah, I've always wondered why Paul Simon and Peter Gabriel caught such flak for their African forays, while Byrne was always a critical darling. I guess because the first two used actual indigenous musicians and didn't pay 'em enough or something? Not being disingenuous here, in fact I'm not sure I am recollecting the critical responses to the three correctly. For some reason I always felt Byrne was the worst offender; something like "Once in a Lifetime" really didn't make the connection explicit enough, I found. As a young listener hearing it for the first time it sounded like this wonderful thing; then as I grew up and heard more music it seemed like cheating.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 16 June 2003 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I've downloaded bits and pieces from a lot of these comps over the years, but I can never pick one to actually buy (and they're hard to find around here). The Mgbaba Queens' titles track from Soweto Never Sleeps is like one of the best things I've ever heard. If I particularly love that song, what would be the best to pick up? (I think I saw SWS at a near-by store but it was like $20.. worth it?)

(Oh and the synths on Indestructible... really turn me off. I could picture myself getting into it if I heard the whole album, though)

― Adam A. (Keiko), Monday, 16 June 2003 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Paul Simon and Peter Gabriel seems alright to me. Byrne/Eno ca. late 70's/early 80's made my favorite music ever. From what I understand they weren't just well versed in the music, but fascinated enough by some of the cultures to totally immerse themselves in it as they were recording. As far as loving what they're copping, I can't see how they're any worse. And of course you're going to get more cred for being the former punk than the former folkie or the former prog rocker; that seems like people's natural & instinctive unfair generalizations.

― Adam A. (Keiko), Monday, 16 June 2003 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

And can someone give specific examples of Talking Heads songs being directly ripped off?

― Adam A. (Keiko), Monday, 16 June 2003 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, but IIRC I think the debate (however much of one there was) really hinged not on the backgrounds of these musicians but the respective way the records were made (and marketed). I'm not really taking sides, just trying to figure out for myself why I've always harbored a suspicion of Byrne.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 16 June 2003 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

3x crosspost

well i still love byrne and the heads to death, so i think there was a way he was taking this music and freaking it to become his own - rather than what Paul Simon did, which to me is like adding sitar or tabla to a dub track to make it "ethnic" and "foreign". Simon seems like he's just singing his lyrics on top of South African backing music. Byrne used certain parts of this music (notably the bass and some rhythms) but added a whole lot more. there's the minimalistic almost kraut chord progressions, the new wave lyrics and herky jerkiness and of course Eno.

― JasonD (JasonD), Monday, 16 June 2003 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

And can someone give specific examples of Talking Heads songs being directly ripped off?

Adam, do you want particular Heads' songs or particular African songs? because the first time i came to this realization, i was drunk in an african resaurant and so there's no way i can know exactly what was being played

― JasonD (JasonD), Monday, 16 June 2003 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Jason, I was referring to your commenting
"there are sometimes when i almost feel like he put out covers of some of these songs."

It made me think you had some scoop like "the bassline from 'once in a lifetime' is just the bassline from ______".

― Adam A. (Keiko), Monday, 16 June 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

three years pass...

I have to revive this just to chime in about "Soweto Never Sleeps,"
totally mindblowing catchy tribal harmonies + infectious rock n' roll rhythms and hyperactive genius chicken pickin. These anonymous mbaqanga guitar players are my favorite rock guitarists of all time.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Thursday, 5 October 2006 21:15 (nineteen years ago)

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