The new Radiohead *(contains no Radiohead content)

Travs?

who?

I don't think Creep could be called grunge-by-the-numbers...perhaps filtered through a US/MTV perspective it could seem that way, where it was thrown in the "Buzz Bin"/heavy rotation along with bands like STP and Soundgarden.

I think Creep was a wiry take on the Pixies, with a real Morrissey influence on the vocals. It's not executed as well as it should/could be, but I still wouldn't call it grunge.

happened to beck, sorta.

"The New Talk Talk", if you will...

Nope. Still bored.

Er... Blur? *runs for cover*

Oh, you mean who might make a change like this? I guess Muse seem to be moving in an interesting direction, even if I'd still rather eat my tongue than listen to them. Some Queen-style techno might be quite fun.

Maybe I'm being a little hasty in trying to extend the question so soon after it's being posed, but here goes: Can you think of any other bands who have climbed the critical high-wire as far up as the 'Head have? Gone from one-hit-wonders to art-musicians? The Beatles, perhaps?

Nicole- I see your point, but I think you're missing mine. Whatever its conscious influences, Creep was a pretty lousy song which fit the grunge zeit, and nobody expected anything more from them. Oops, just broke my "no radiohead content" promise.

In trying to answer my own question I thought, "is going electronic the only way a rock band can be seen to be progressive?" Or, as ethan points out, doing Beck or Cornelius style pastiche?

[grammar]: it's = its

My guess would be something like Incubus, or the Deftones. I don't think Creep was wretched though. Before Radiohead had any sort of public profile it actually sounded pretty quaint (as far as self-loathing grunge anthems go). And the chugga--------chugga guitar part sounded pretty cool; I didn't need a tube amp to do THAT.

i'd like to hear the deftones' kid a.

In terms of mainstream-press critical-darling-ism, Bjork's the nearest I can think of. I seem to remember "Human Behaviour" being regarded as a cute little fluke for five minutes or so before she was categorized as Wonderful and A True Artist. But obviously very different, as she didn't "earn" that impression through further releases -- just had it accrete, after a momentary pause, on the first one. Her "serious critical appreciation" stock seems to have risen with each release, but I suppose that's the norm -- artists "maturing" and all.

Hard to think of many acts who were sort of dissed and later lionized by the mainstream press -- more likely that bands are utterly ignored and later lionized. Perhaps Radiohead's to be commended on being one of few bands who survived the initial write-off and rallied back -- good or bad -- to "greater" things.

Complete agreement, by the way, re: Blur. The irony there, though, was that the peak of their dismissal coincided with what I'd still say is their best record: Modern Life is Rubbish.

And certainly we'd all agree that Parklife, whether wretched or brilliant, is a big step up from "There's No Other Way" (or "Bang"), if not in likeability then in artistic ambition / quality content?

i think '13' is the best blur have ever been. i wonder if they'll keep that up. bjork is a pretty good answer to this as well.

Bjork don't fit - she's already proved some stay-power a few albums ago, and has some critical attention from her dogme-freakout in 'Dancer'... Blur does have some momentmum - but not enough broody, alienated arena numbers.

>i'd like to hear the deftones' kid a

This is the sort of thing I had in mind with my original question, i.e., can you imagine Matchbox 20 buying the whole Tzadik back catalog and suddenly making Zorn-freakout type stuff? Or Sugar Ray making dub records w/ Mad Professor? Personally, I'd like to see Lenny Kravitz get more into Krautrock. Maybe Holger Czukay is available to produce his next album?

This is the sort of thing I had in mind with my original question, i.e., can you imagine Matchbox 20 buying the whole Tzadik back catalog and suddenly making Zorn-freakout type stuff?

No, but I can imagine the Deftones making something like Kid A.

um, i can certainly imagine sugar ray making dub with mad professor.

Pan Sonic

What about U2's opportunistic, ripofftastic switch from the calculated America-conquering 'Rattle And Hum' to the oh-so-arty Berlin period of 'The Fly'. They also appropriated cutting edge dance technology (some sort of diluted Primal Screamisms) and went all PoMo in their live shows for the rest of the 90s.

Radiohead and U2 are the AOL and Microsoft of the pop world: they're big enough to snap any small innovative companies that come along with new ideas, thereby prolonging their monopolies.

(If you'll forgive my immodesty, I'd also mention an article in last weekend's New York Times called 'Rock Groups Who No Longer Rock'. It discussed Radiohead and U2's exploration of new, more leftfield styles, and ended by noting that REM's new work resembles 'that of quirky cult songwriter Momus'. Have these mega-million dollar vampires and dinosaurs no shame?)

Post rock for the masses = bad? Huh? Depression for the masses, however = sad. Sugar Ray would suck no matter what. That group who did butterfly, Crazy Town, however, I can see them going places, drawing on trip-hop and glitch.

Momus - perhaps you should record an alb of Val Doonican and Roger Whitaker covers in order to finish off REM's career once and for all.

How long before we see U2 taking a leaf out of their mate Howie B's book and going 'folk'?

It discussed Radiohead and U2's exploration of new, more leftfield styles, and ended by noting that REM's new work resembles 'that of quirky cult songwriter Momus'. Have these mega-million dollar vampires and dinosaurs no shame?

Really? I've had so little interest in REM the past few years that I didn't know they had ripped Momus off. Michael Stipe should stick to producing movies these days.

it's always rough when the new york times compares you to REM. i cried for a week the first time it happened to me.

Hmmm... U2 AND Radiohead as trend parasites? Perhaps, but U2 was so damn blatant about it - they'd throw themselves at the cameras, play up their "innovations". They cater to the press. Radiohead, however, AVOID the public eye (as best they can) - most press goes to THEM, seeks them out, says what they're doing, plays up their supposed greatness & significance (to my knowledge). Maybe it's just a matter of perception, but nowadays, those two bands are oil & water.

Of course, rhetoric like this just perpetuates the monstrous hype machine that makes Radiohead out to be this monolithic rock machine, when they're just barely going platinum and sitting comfortably on the periphery of the cultural radar (again, unlike U2, which for a long, long, long while, were THE BAND).

long live gutsy music! dont forget its the attitude thats important!! prog was damned for its self indulgence, not the experimentation or the ideas. punk was damned for its self-destruction, not the sparkiness. I reckon.. :))

How about underworld making a guitar record? seems they cant make dance any more.. :))

How about underworld making a guitar record?

Isn't this what Massive Attack did w/ Mezzanine?

And Mezz is a great album, but it's not seen as quite the genre gestalt shock that RH going Warp is.

I guess Moby is someone who hops genres, but he goes from relatively interesting techno to pretty dull punk. RH have been much more successful in incorporating the electronic stuff into the rock blueprint they started with. It's easy to see the seeds of OKC in Pablo Honey in retrospect, but I don't think anyone could've predicted it.

I guess I'd just like to see things spiced up a bit by more groups suddenly going in a (relatively) left field direction.

I don't think Michale Stipe COULD rip off Momus if he tried. I meant to say Travis on that first post . By the way there recent offering is rather tapioca. U2 made some catchy pop in the early 90s but soon descended into a pit of tryin gtoo hard to be both current and trend setting while doing what they are not good at. Their whole shtick was over the top poncey anti war romanticism, stadium rock, Queen with a political conscience. Radiohead ? I have to give them credit for making such an unlistenable album as KID A, but overall they are sort of like prefaded jeans, never really innovating, just synthesizing something authentic. They would have been truly interesting if they were making their music in 1974, but they're not. Like when you go to an art museum and you see a sort of dull minimalsit painting, usually the only reason ist THERE is becasue of the context in which it was created, many years ago when it was avante guarde. I still remember seeing Radiohead play CREEP at the MTV beachhouse and thinking they were dull. So if THEY can be super stars, I would say anyone can. You just need the right promotion.

Regret to say i remember seeing that 'beach house' episode and amazed that those semi-clad androids were actually trying to rump-shake through the entire set. Pool party indeed.

Radiohead proved useful to me in argument yesterday. "Are radiohead art?" uh, yeah. "Are radiohead on a major label?" uh, yeah. "Then shut up about 'selling out and appropriation', okay?" Also, in course of the agt. had a fifteen year old as me, w/r/t my description (as per. industry standard) of early radiohead as "grunge" -- "what's grunge?".

Grunge... Hmmm. Genre before Emo, right?

Dave: if I remember correkt back when Pan Sonic had the 'a' in their name they were crtical darlings making "difficult" songs with ear- shattering high-pitch whines, now making glitch-by-numbers comfort music.

Kyuss --> QOTSA. Tool --> Tool. Old Destiny's Child --> New Destiny's Child. Madonna --> Madonna --> Madonna --> Madonna --> Madonna

The fact that none of you have mentioned MIKE PATTON means you are all indie pussies! From stadium funk-metal (albeit of a very idiosyncratic kind) with FNM, to the hallucinogenic Mr Bungle and now collaborations with Merzbow and John Zorn, nothing is outside the man's leering gaze!

and on the kid606 album "down with the scene" too, mike patton credited as contributing lyrics.. not exactly "easy", is it?

Mike Patton is one of the most predictable musicians I can think of.