Dancing Queens

Stage show, performance, stage presence are important parts of the entertainment aspect of music. But I don't get upset if an artist is good at one aspect, but not another. Sure, I might not see them live if they *really* lack performance skills, but I'll listen to the record and still enjoy it.

I know this is an argument as old as video itself and twice as corny, of course.

but dancing matters *a lot more* live - Tico is right about Mis-Teeq at Glastonbury, watching that kind of choreography work is brilliant fun. i think i enjoy watching, and am more impressed by, good dancing as opposed to 'good playing,' because in theory the ability to dance is something everyone has, and it's great to watch people who have mastered this universal thing. (as opposed to those spoddy types who spend years indoors learning an instrument...)

That's bollocks. Not everyone has the ability to dance. I can't dance to save my life, and that's despite years of dancing lessons inflicted upon me as a child. Saying everyone has the ability to dance is like saying everyone has the ability to sing. Sure, you can move, but that doesn't mean that it's going to be in rhtyhm, or look beautiful the same way that some people have vocal chords but are just tone deaf or have awful voices.

does anyone else find it terrible to watch old clips of yr favourite 60s motown stars in action? whenever i see any i always feel terrible disapointement as the most gorgeous, powerful music ever made is denuded of all its strenth by totally lame polite and awkward performances - i can't believe that the temptations can't dance but they were surely in need of a choreographer and probably a studio director who knew what he was doing.

the flipside is of course james brown - having seen him dance the majestic frenzy of it all becomes totally inseperable from his music.

no-one can't dance. i am proof of this.

um, what i mean is, learning to dance does not require the acquistion of any special ability or knowledge, unlike musicianship. you already have the knowledge and tools to do it. (ie your arms and your legs and your ass).

ie, someone who 'can't dance' can still move to music. someone who's never had a guitar lesson (like me) wouldn't be able to do a thing.

Qualify this. My mother is totally tone-deaf. I can sing her a note a thousand times, and she is still unable to duplicate it.

ie, someone who 'can't dance' can still move to music. someone who's never had a guitar lesson (like me) wouldn't be able to do a thing.

Bollocks. You would be able to twang the strings a little. Unless you had no fingers. You might not be able to get a tune out of it, but twanging a guitar string :: getting a tune is the same as moving to music :: dancing choreographed steps.

I could spin you rants galore about why I hate choreographed dancing etc. but I won't, as this is I Love Music not Pick Apart Other Artforms. I suspect I'm a bit Julio when it comes to dance - spontaneous, improvised expressions of dance = great, choreographed routines = cold, lifeless and dull. But that's just my opinion. Some people enjoy watching dance, like some people enjoy improvised free jazz. Whatever.

haha, ok, i was half-joking, but the idea is, mandarin chinese (i can't speak for cantonese) is a tonal langauge - ie to speak and understand it you have to be able to distinguish different tones, because sometimes the same character has different meanings according to its tone. so, unless you want to argue that there is some inherent genetic difference between chinese speakers and anyone else, 'being tone deaf' is a misnomer. (this might all be bollocks, i can't tell!)

twanging a guitar string :: getting a tune is the same as moving to music :: dancing choreographed steps.

true, but i agree that uncoreographed, chaotic, spontaneous dancing is a lot more fun to do and watch than is the same kind of guitar playing, if you get me.

and the reason good dancing impresses me is because i can *see* how they're doing it, even if i could never replicate it in a million years. with good playing the process is completely opaque - i don't even have the reference points to say, ah, yes, that is good playing.

What I am talking about when I talk about "tone deaf" is inability to distinguish between/replicate *pitches*. If you play me Middle C on a piano, I can sing Middle C back to you, or tune my guitar to Middle C, or get an oscillator to resonate at the correct frequency which brings about a Middle C.

If I played a Middle C to my mother, she would stab at singing a C#, then a wavering B/B flat, and be unable to tell that the note she was singing was different from the note that I was playing.

pitch is what i meant! there *are* different pitches in chinese! i didn't mean 'tone of voice' in that vague way!

i don't get it anyway...are you saying that some people are just physically incapable of singing a note? how? why? is it hereditary? can this condition be diagnosed? treated? is is the same with dancing?

some people are just physically incapable of singing a note?

Not neccessarily incapable of singing a note, no. But replicating a note? Or hitting a note? Fuck yes.

Anyway, this question is about dancing. And dancing in pop music is rubbish. Dance routines in songs are only good if they are ironic, and badly performed.

okay, i admit it. i've never seen any evidence whatsoever that the temptations can dance, but they sure *sound* like they can

as for watching it live...this rarely happens so i'm indifferent, but i enjoy breakdancing style more than the standard pop artist moves.

And dancing in pop music is rubbish.

but where would one be without the other? it's unthinkable. i dance when i hear music. i want my pop stars to do the same!

There is such a thing as a happy medium, Tom. You've had too many Amphorae already!

And Roisin's 'moves' are probably some of the sexiest and most genuine & appealing in pop.