Jews, Catholics, Cunning Linguistics

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I'm notoriously apathetic to the craft of writing lyrics, thus dismissive (occasionally contemptuous) of singer/songwriters - unless they happen to be Warren Zevon, Randy Newman or Leonard Cohen. (Lou Reed has done some good work too, as has B. Zimmerman I guess). However, other verbiage vultures swear by Elvis Costello, Shane McGowan and Bruce Springsteen, and they have their merits also. Let's face it, the best lyricists are bead-twirlers and candle collectors! Is there something about belonging to a secret world-dominating cult that bestows members with a superhuman powers of phraseology?

Take the verbally-challenged field of heavy metal - in a field dominated by priapic cavemen and pompous fuckwits, the Borscht Belt burlesques of David Lee Roth and Gene Simmons stand out like Lenny Bruce routines in comparison. Maybe the Beastie Boys and John Lydon respectively abandoned hardcore/punk for hip-hop/reggae-influenced music because they wanted credible verbal competition? (The dub that influenced PiL isn't thought of as lyric-oriented music, but there's something about dub's apocalyptic, Old Testament sloganeering that obviously appealed to Johny).

― dave q, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What is it, exactly, about singer-songwriters' lyrics you're [occasionally] contemptuous of? I know several people who embody this stance, and their responses are usually along the lines of "I wish they'd quit singing about themselves for once." This would seem to be in keeping with liking Zevon, someone not really known for whining about his own problems so much as he is for revelling in those of others, but how is it for you?

― matthew m., Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Matthew - exactly. 'Confessional' writers usually fail to describe their own inner struggles in a way that convinces me that their thoughts are more interesting than anybody else's. (One 'confessional' writer I DO like a lot is Pete Townshend.) On the other hand, those who write about 'social' topics (Jackson Browne, say) are constricted by either a)limitations of pop-song form, or b) limited grasp of the issues they're dealing with, and I'm often suspicious that people who praise these writers for their perspicacity are too lazy to read a real BOOK on the topic. (Keith Richards- "Political music = lazy man's politics")

― dave q, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"Warren Zevon, Randy Newman or Leonard Cohen" ? well one out of three ain't bad. I dont really get what this thread is about

― Mike Hanle y, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If he'd come right out and said that Jews were better lyricists, it would have been more interesting, albeit un-PC. Considering the list above, it wouldn't be a hard point to prove, methinks.

― Sean, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's about how come Jewish/Zionist/Catholic songwriters are less annoying than protestants/atheists/others.

Take the verbally-challenged field of heavy metal - in a field dominated by priapic cavemen and pompous fuckwits, the Borscht Belt burlesques of David Lee Roth and Gene Simmons stand out like Lenny Bruce routines in comparison

There's also the Dictators, the Ramones, the New York Dolls, etc. The Bad Brains vs. Black Flag? But then LA is so Babylonian, Black Flag may as well be rastas. Are you onto something? Me, I think Satanists, fascists, and pretend-homosexuals write the best lyrics. Some of the worst songwriters are jewish too: Dylan's kid, Adam Sandler, Lenny Kravitz. Madonna as catholic: classic. Madonna as hindu/buddhist/taoist/whatever: dud.

― Kris, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

While I'm not really interested in the "Catholics/Jews vs. Everybody Else" angle on this, I think Dave Q. may be onto something in his question. People who are devoutly Catholic tend to be insufferable as songwriters, however - it's the conflicted or lapsed ones who are more interesting. There's a cynicism in the work of some of the writers you mention that might be attributable to culture. Well, okay - I don't know about David Lee Roth, Gene Simmons and Bruce Springsteen, but I understand what you're getting at. I suppose that if you grew up in some blander faith, or had lukewarm religious beliefs, you'd be less likely to have that "dark side" that some people find interesting. I myself, however, like to find it lurking in things that are "sunny" and uncomplicated on the surface - I actually don't like a lot of the people you mention.

― Kerry Keane, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Obviously Eric Clapton and Steve Winwood belonged to a 'Bland Faith'

― dave q, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

When did "british blues" become a religion?

― Kris, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the reason that older socio-groups are easier to classify as 'great' than newer socio-religious groups is 1) they are older and therefore more interesting to us 2) most of us were (i'm guessing) raisted protestant and so they are 'foreign- sounding' in colloquialisms and such and 3) jews are the best comedy writers and therefore at good at lyrics.

i'm only halfway kidding about that last point. also, may i submit beck as a great 'didn't know he was jewish' lyricist?

― ethan, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well catholicism is all about melodrama after all

― Mike Hanle y, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

seven years pass...

The Reversion of Ratt's Singer, I Mean Ratzinger:

VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI, reaching out to the far-right of the Roman Catholic Church, revoked the excommunications of four schismatic bishops on Saturday, including one whose comments denying the Holocaust have provoked outrage. ...

Among the men reinstated Saturday was Richard Williamson, a British-born cleric who in an interview last week said he did not believe that six million Jews died in the Nazi gas chambers. He has also given interviews saying that the United States government staged the Sept. 11 attacks as a pretext to invade Afghanistan...

Abraham Foxman, the A.D.L.’s national director, added that the decree “sends a terrible message to Catholics around the world that there is room in the church for those who would undermine the church’s teachings and who would foster disdain and contempt for other religions, particularly Judaism. Given the centuries-long history of anti-Semitism in the church, this is a most troubling setback.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/world/europe/25pope.html?_r=1&hp

― xhuxk, Sunday, 25 January 2009 16:27 (seventeen years ago)

Cliche answer: both traditions are by nature gnostic, thus the narcissism of small differences (albeit to great consequence).

― M.V., Saturday, 31 January 2009 02:31 (seventeen years ago)

Which is also what keeps this here joint hoppin', of course.

― M.V., Saturday, 31 January 2009 02:34 (seventeen years ago)

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