The Doobie Brothers: C or D?

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Seventies American butt-rock in excelsis or underrated masters of boogie-rock and seemless L.A. studio pop? Did you prefer the biker-band boogie or Michael McDonald's Steely Dan-esque smooth pop? Or was it all crap and the fact that this stuff sold boatloads in the US and is still played over the airwaves proof that American pop culture is pure ass?

― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Best give me some recommendations, Tadeusz, as I only know of "long train running". Michael McDonald's solo material seems quite bland to me, especially "Sweet Freedom" but I suppose that was years later. I do know that they came out with one of the best album tiles ever in "What were once vices are now habits", but is the music on the album worthy of its clever title? Doobie Brothers never charted highly in the Uk so far as I know.

― MarkH, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Pre-Michael McDonald Doobie Brothers: "China Grove," "Black Water," "Rockin' Down the Highway," "Long Train Running," "Listen to the Music," "Jesus Is Just Alright."

Michael McDonald-era Doobie Brothers: "Takin' It to the Streets," "What a Fool Believes, "It Keeps You Runnin'," "Minute by Minute." Both McDonald and Skunk Baxter were Steely Dan alumni (and it shows).

I guess this makes as much sense to Brits as talking about Status Quo would make to Americans. And I'm embarrased to know this much about the Doobie Brothers (blame it on my Dad, who liked this sort of stuff) :-o

― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like the smoothed out McDonald version of the Doobies is my first choice, but it's like a whole different band at that point. "What A Fool Believes" was a big R&B chart hit, too.

Michael McDonald is a powerful musical weapon, and it must be used judiciously. When used improperly ("Ya Mo Be There") there can only be disaster.

Remember the last gasp of the soft rock Doobies, with "Real Love" and "One Step Closer"?

― Chuck Tomlinson, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The Doobies before Michael McDonald were totally useless. You listen to them and you think, were these guys EVER young? The opening riff to "China Grove" must've been inspired by some exceptionally weak drugs -- you keep waiting for Ronnie Van Zandt to come in and say, "Turn it DOWN". "Black Water" is pretty cool though. After McDonald, much less useless, owing almost entirely to MM. "Minute--by--minute--by--minute--by--minute--(Ahhkeepholdin'o'o n!!)..." Classic! Skunk Baxter is a better punk name than Steve Ignorant, too.

― Kris, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Jeff Skunk Baxter's waxed walrus moustache =classic.

― Arthur, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Docked at least 1,000,000 points for "Whoah-whoah, listen to the music, all the ti-i-i-i-i-me...", and the comeback with the Eddie Schwarz songs, which amounted to being a photocopy of a photocopy. Then again, "What a Fool Believes"...wow! Those chord changes! I'll never figure them out without downloading tab!

― dave q, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

How many times can I talk about the Doobies in one day? "What a Fool Believes" is one of the great soft-rock classics of all time, some of the most interesting lyrics, the most vaguely catchy arrangements (try transcribing the bass part -- you WILL fuck it up, no matter what you think).

I love this song. I've been breathing this song for 6 days straight for no apparent reason.

― Matt H, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Self's cover of "What a Fool Believes," as played entirely on toy instruments, from his album Gizmodgery, is far superior to the original, in both a. It sounds kitschy, but it's not at all. I think the Doobies could potentially have unintentionally established this as a genre--'music to be improved through cover versions in the future.'

― matthew m., Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The Beatles established that genre when Stevie Wonder did "We Can Work it Out".

― Matt H, Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Uh, oops, sorry, the evil phone strikes again and leaves me with a posted incomplete thought. That should read "...in both arrangement and execution."

― matthew m., Monday, 30 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I thought Otis Blackwell invented that genre. Or Dino Valenti, who wrote "Hey Joe"

― dave q, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

THey can Doobie somewhere else thank you

― Mike Hanle y, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Doobie or not Doobie?

― dave q, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Always liked McDonald's singing all over 'Katy Lied' - gd contast with Fagen's sneer. 'What a fool believes' classic too - and what was the McDonald track sampled by Warren G?

― Andrew L, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"I Keep Forgettin", right?

― Kris, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two years pass...

"what a fool believes" is weirdly classic -- completely of its time, it still doesn't sound like anything else. what an odd hook.

i just "black water" and that song is...awful.

is "w.a.f.b." really a doobies song or a m. mcd. solo tune?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 23 May 2004 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

well, "what a fool believes" wouldn't be TOTALLY out of place on a steely dan record (musically, NOT lyrically -- mcdonald's lyrical sensibility is a little sweeter than messrs. fagen and becker).

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 23 May 2004 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

aretha does a great cover of "what a fool believes." well worth slsking.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 23 May 2004 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

"What a fool believes" is great. I also love "Long train running", mainly due to hearing it in loads of early '90s "rave" clubs...

Did I imagine this? I'm sure it was a big hit in the clubs. Does anyone else remember this?

― Keith Watson (kmw), Sunday, 23 May 2004 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

yes there was a remix version in the early 90s but i can't remember who did it. it was also covered by Don Pablo's Animals along with Bananarama's 'Venus' which was a top ten hit in 1990.

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 23 May 2004 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't realise that Don Pablo's Animals did Long Train Running! I heart their version of Shocking Blue's Venus (which Bananarama covered) tho.

― MarkH (MarkH), Sunday, 23 May 2004 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Cheers. I sometimes wonder...

A month or two ago after a night out I was watching the telly with one eye and then fell asleep on the sofa. I woke up freezing in the morning thinking "weird, the Flirtations' Nothing but a Heartache is on a KFC advert" and then put it down to just a stupid dream but then a few weeks later saw it.

I think I'm having difficulty separating reality with fantasy these days.

― Keith Watson (kmw), Sunday, 23 May 2004 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

"What A Fool Believes" is unutterably Classic.

― Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 23 May 2004 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

long train running = septic chicken scratch menace

― stevie (stevie), Sunday, 23 May 2004 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i really hate their southern/dixieland/funky pretensions, because they are really so inept at such things.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 23 May 2004 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Black Water is a fucking horrible song.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Sunday, 23 May 2004 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

"Then I was down south and I heard some funk with some main ingredients
Like Doobie Brothers, Blue Magic, David Bowie.
It was cool,
But can you imagine Doobie on your funk? Ho!
WEFUNK, we funk.
Make my funk the P.Funk
I want my funk uncut"

― briania (briania), Monday, 24 May 2004 04:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Really awful shit. Even when they had Skunk Baxter playing with them. Their take on Holland/Dozier/Holland/Kim Weston is an abomination. "Takin' It to the Streets" might have been decent had it not contained Michael McDonald, whose voice drives me up the fucking wall. I don't mind the backing tracks of "What a Fool Believes" and so forth.

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 24 May 2004 04:40 (twenty-two years ago)

what is with the vocals on "taking it to the streets"? they always sounded processed in some really disturbing and unpleasant fashion to me.

what is the bacharach song that mcdonald recorded again?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 24 May 2004 04:42 (twenty-two years ago)

amateur!st, I believe the song you refer to is the odious "On My Own." BB and Carole Bayer Aspirin or whatever her name was.

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 24 May 2004 04:50 (twenty-two years ago)

see but even in that song there is some cool stuff

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 24 May 2004 04:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, Bacharach always is worth listening to on some level of musicality, it's the sentiment and the schmaltz in "On My Own," and MM himself, I object to.

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 24 May 2004 04:54 (twenty-two years ago)

michael mcdonald IS an acquired taste, i will confess. it took a while for me to like him (i think that the 1st time i heard him was "ya mo be there" -- like WTF?!?)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 24 May 2004 04:54 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

so what do folks think about da doobies NOWADAYS?!?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 4 October 2006 06:58 (nineteen years ago)

(Insert the usual "I don't believe in "guilty pleasures" disclaimer here), but I have to "confess" my love of their version of "Take Me in Your Arms."

Have we done a TS: "Take Me in Your Arms" (Doobies) vs. "How Sweet It Is" (James Taylor)?

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Wednesday, 4 October 2006 07:37 (nineteen years ago)

I've realized that "Black Water" is one of my favorite songs ever. Which is weird because it is completely unrelated to the rest of my taste in music. The violin/guitar duet and the "hand HAND" round on the coda are the bestest.

― Apocalypse '07: Rodney Strikes Back (R. J. Greene), Wednesday, 4 October 2006 14:13 (nineteen years ago)

Thread needs more love for my favorite Doobies song, "Another Park, Another Sunday." Their vocal arrangements were a lot more interesting before McDonald staged his bloodless coup of the band.

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Wednesday, 4 October 2006 18:08 (nineteen years ago)

PS: Rickey, I know you and I have completely dissimilar tastes, but that's not going to stop me from declaring that JT's "How Sweet It Is" is one of the 100 worst records in rock history. Therefore pretty much anything will beat that in a TS.

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Wednesday, 4 October 2006 18:09 (nineteen years ago)

five months pass...

Self's cover of "What a Fool Believes," as played entirely on toy instruments, from his album Gizmodgery, is far superior to the original, in both a. It sounds kitschy, but it's not at all. I think the Doobies could potentially have unintentionally established this as a genre--'music to be improved through cover versions in the future.'

far superior my ass you lunatic

― rps, Friday, 30 March 2007 06:32 (nineteen years ago)

.....

― tipsy mothra, Friday, 30 March 2007 06:37 (nineteen years ago)

Joseph, are our tastes that different? I like "Another Park, Another Sunday," for one thing!

― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Friday, 30 March 2007 07:23 (nineteen years ago)

"What a Fool Believes" is a perfect track. It cannot be improved upon.

― Hurting 2, Friday, 30 March 2007 14:23 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...

what a fool believes was playing in morrisons on holloway road yesterday:D

― 600, Sunday, 6 May 2007 09:51 (nineteen years ago)

...ehh, 'twas coming, in all its plentiful smoothnessness, over my radio the minute i switched it on yesterday morning:)

i also notice that i didnnae any doobie b's records whatsoevah when this thread was started, back in the day, whereas i now have ...mm, four! the recent-est-est acquisitions being stampede and sibling rivalry. so recent that i'mma yet to listen to them.

― t**t, Sunday, 13 May 2007 17:33 (nineteen years ago)

"What a Fool Believes" is a perfect track. It cannot be improved upon.

Truth in distilled form.

― Dom Passantino, Sunday, 13 May 2007 17:41 (nineteen years ago)

re: "what a fool ..." - the funnyish thing is, the first time i ever heard this song, it was some sort of olden live version of it on tv - and i only caught the very end of the performance - which was just (near-totally) a cappella, and that 20-30 second bit gave me for starters a *very* different idea what this song was supposed to sound like in its entirety, heheh. so when i finally got the minute by minute cd - hoho, great was my surprise :)

― t**t, Sunday, 13 May 2007 17:50 (nineteen years ago)

Minute by Minute is an uneven album -- I think you can kind of hear the unpleasant tension between old-Doobie and nu-Doobie in a lot of the weaker McDonald era stuff.

I've recently come to really like You're Made That Way.

― Hurting 2, Sunday, 13 May 2007 22:58 (nineteen years ago)

i really wish that someone would defend the old-school/original doobie bros. i mean, EVERYONE (even seth "anal cunt" putnam) loves michael mcdonald -- where's the love for "black water" and the biker/boogie-band shit?!? ;__;

― Eisbaer, Sunday, 13 May 2007 23:19 (nineteen years ago)

I never liked the old Doobie Brothers much.

― Hurting 2, Sunday, 13 May 2007 23:32 (nineteen years ago)

Skipping 28 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

and in my case a redundancy.

― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 November 2011 22:18 (fourteen years ago)

Stormy otm about the slept-on debut

― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:18 (fourteen years ago)

duddudududdududududududududududududududdudududdudududdududududud

mcdonald has a hell of a voice, tho. he should permanently front grizzly-bear.

― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:30 (fourteen years ago)

dave q otm upthread about minute by minute chord changes...incredible. and mcdonald one of the great harmony vocalists of the whole rock era

― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:30 (fourteen years ago)

mcdonald has a hell of a voice, tho. he should permanently front grizzly-bear.

Doobie Bros had a rhythm section, dude.

― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:38 (fourteen years ago)

hm, true.

okay, mcdonald should be the singer, and chic should provide the rhythm section. the other grizzly-bears can sing backup vocals.

― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:44 (fourteen years ago)

Just leave their mics off. They'll never know the difference.

― Melle Mel and the Coconuts (thewufs), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 04:22 (fourteen years ago)

*takes it to the streets*

― buzza, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 04:26 (fourteen years ago)

I'm really surprised how few people are sticking up for Tom Johnston and his stack of riff rock gems.

And their take on "Take Me in Your Arms" is fab. Love the string arrangement, especially the plucked breakdown.

― Hideous Lump, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 05:39 (fourteen years ago)

two years pass...

This is a pretty crazy arrangement; first you start with some folky CSN arrangement that moves into a big orchestral piece then onto some krautrock Doc Severinsen ending. It's a pretty weird Doobie Brothers track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7EZv5GsGzs

― earlnash, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 05:11 (twelve years ago)

three years pass...

Been doing a deep dive in the pre-McDonald albums and the album cuts are full of some of the most wonderfully recorded, tastefully played acoustic guitar riffery in the whole 70s. (Some of the radio cuts were as well, but there is more of it beneath the surface.)

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Saturday, 22 July 2017 17:06 (eight years ago)

Good examples?

― calstars, Saturday, 22 July 2017 18:35 (eight years ago)

The title track on Toulouse Street and "Spirit" from What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits are the ones that really stood out to me the most, but it was just something I kept noticing continuously through my listening binge.

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Saturday, 22 July 2017 19:09 (eight years ago)

I think it's just that there's real "in the room" sound that was captured with the acoustic strings on a lot of things, more so than on a lot of other 70s recordings. Like, "shit, this guitar is right next to me!"

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Saturday, 22 July 2017 19:12 (eight years ago)

their whole catalog thru at least Minute By Minute is richly worthy of close listening. Beautifully recorded, beautifully played records

― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 22 July 2017 23:14 (eight years ago)

Johnny, those are nice. As is Black Water as long as you stop it before it becomes acapella barber shop.

Thirteen by big star is the acoustic recording holy grail imho.

― calstars, Sunday, 23 July 2017 00:12 (eight years ago)

one year passes...

Ah, Michael McDonald.

― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 17 June 2019 01:27 (six years ago)

one year passes...

I did a deep dive into the catalog last year, and I wound up nearly hating them. They can be a fine meat-and-potatoes band, but after 15 or 20 minutes, the vocals (at least before McDonald came on board), the lyrics and the musical clichés start to wear thin, and stretched beyond an hour, it wasn't so enjoyable anymore. It was much more palatable to string all of their singles together - I didn't like them all, but even at their worst (like "Listen to the Music" or "Takin' It to the Streets" as Alfred suggested) there were still parts of their music that could be enjoyed, usually a riff or a light groove to hang on to while letting the rest zip on by.

― birdistheword, Monday, 15 February 2021 08:54 (five years ago)

I enjoy three songs apiece from their first two best-of collections (five sung by Mike McDonald), but get sufficiently annoyed by the ones I don't like that I'd never consider listening to an original album.

― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 15 February 2021 13:53 (five years ago)

A lot of their music just sounds like nothing is at stake. There’s a bit of a blankly cherry, up with people kind of vibe to it.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 15 February 2021 17:07 (five years ago)

*blankly cheery

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 15 February 2021 17:07 (five years ago)

For people who found the Eagles too intense.

― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 15 February 2021 17:16 (five years ago)

For people who found the Eagles too intense.

LMAO

― birdistheword, Monday, 15 February 2021 20:19 (five years ago)

A lot of their music just sounds like nothing is at stake.

Pretty damning when one of their signature tunes is "Takin' It to the Streets."

― birdistheword, Monday, 15 February 2021 20:25 (five years ago)

Yeah but that song is just about getting a new remote-controlled car for Christmas

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 15 February 2021 23:08 (five years ago)

Neil Young:Model Trains::Michael McDonald:Radio-Controlled Cars

― "what are you DOING to fleetwood mac??" (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 15 February 2021 23:13 (five years ago)

REMOTE-CONTROLLED

― "what are you DOING to fleetwood mac??" (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 15 February 2021 23:14 (five years ago)

For people who found the Eagles too intense.

See this is the kind of challops that I aspire to

― calstars, Monday, 15 February 2021 23:17 (five years ago)

six months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9URZfqYf2o

― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 September 2021 01:29 (four years ago)

^ pretty funky jammed-out version w Cornelius Bumpus leading the band

― Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 September 2021 03:06 (four years ago)

full show is here, those live mcdonald vocals are ridiculous https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LCB_RdfdXc

― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Saturday, 11 September 2021 08:58 (four years ago)

Damn, that show is dope

― Naive Teen Idol, Sunday, 12 September 2021 13:41 (four years ago)

Started crying this morning listening to Here to Love You for the first time, what a song.

― lukas, Monday, 13 September 2021 05:34 (four years ago)

that set is unbelievable

― I'm a sovereign jazz citizen (the table is the table), Monday, 13 September 2021 17:45 (four years ago)

feel like this video disproves every old "Doobies pre-Mcdonald is real Doobies" douchebag so hard. This band only got classic when they went full funky r&b.

― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Monday, 13 September 2021 19:56 (four years ago)

Yass ^

― calstars, Monday, 13 September 2021 20:22 (four years ago)

They can sit on the bench with the "Fleetwood Mac pre-Buckingham Nicks is real Fleetwood Mac" dorks imo

― Richard Marxist (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 13 September 2021 20:39 (four years ago)

My dad insists everything post Peter Green stinks. xTRUEDADCHALLOPSx

― Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Monday, 13 September 2021 21:00 (four years ago)

feel like this video disproves every old "Doobies pre-Mcdonald is real Doobies" douchebag so hard. This band only got classic when they went full funky r&b.

Yes. I’m pretty sure they cleaned up the background vocals considerably but McDonald is a fucking force in that show.

― Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 13 September 2021 21:38 (four years ago)

They can sit on the bench with the "Fleetwood Mac pre-Buckingham Nicks is real Fleetwood Mac" dorks imo

Exactly

― calstars, Monday, 13 September 2021 21:51 (four years ago)

one year passes...

I'd like to hear some funky Dixieland
Pretty Mama come and take me by the hand
By the hand (hand), take me by the hand pretty Mama
Come and dance with your daddy all night long
I'd like to hear some funky Dixieland
Pretty Mama come and take me by the hand
I want to honky tonk (take me by the hand)
Honky tonk (take me by the hand pretty Mama)
Honky tonk (come and dance with your daddy all night long) with you all night long

I'd like to hear some funky Dixieland
Pretty Mama come and take me by the hand
I want to honky tonk (take me by the hand)
Honky tonk (take me by the hand pretty Mama)
Honky tonk (come and dance with your daddy all night long) with you all night long

I'd like to hear some funky Dixieland
Pretty Mama come and take me by the hand
C'mon baby, c'mon baby (I want to honky tonk) (take me by the hand)
Honky tonk (take me by the hand pretty Mama)
Honky tonk (come and dance with your daddy all night long) with you all night long

I'd like to hear some funky Dixieland
Pretty Mama come and take me by the hand
C'mon baby, c'mon baby (I want to honky tonk) (take me by the hand)
Honky tonk (take me by the hand pretty Mama)
Honky tonk (come and dance with your daddy all night long) with you all night long

I'd like to hear some funky Dixieland
Pretty Mama come and take me by the hand
C'mon baby, c'mon baby (I want to honky tonk) (take me by the hand)
Honky tonk (take me by the hand pretty Mama)
Honky tonk (come and dance with your daddy all night long) with you all night long

imo

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 8 July 2023 02:32 (two years ago)

I always think of that line in Romancing the Stone.

― Bittern Storm Over My Hammy (morrisp), Saturday, 8 July 2023 03:04 (two years ago)

LOL, he found out a couple of years too late

― birdistheword, Saturday, 8 July 2023 04:10 (two years ago)

Michael McDonald, Living Meme, strikes again

― but also fuck you (unperson), Saturday, 8 July 2023 19:01 (two years ago)

Yah Mo Zoom U

― pomplamoose and circumstance (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 8 July 2023 19:29 (two years ago)

Hope this story ends better than the little girl obsessed with Wire.

― Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 8 July 2023 19:38 (two years ago)

“Is your best friend Christopher Cross?” Hahaha

― calstars, Saturday, 8 July 2023 22:24 (two years ago)

one year passes...

Opening seconds are like a prototypical Mike Post '80s TV theme song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkY3e_Ab5FQ

― birdistheword, Tuesday, 25 February 2025 19:39 (one year ago)

four months pass...

Whenever I hear Johnston sing “keep on pushing mama” I wonder if he cribbed that line from Bob Plant

― calstars, Tuesday, 1 July 2025 00:11 (eleven months ago)

four months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrkOQuRYCIQ

― budo jeru, Monday, 10 November 2025 16:41 (six months ago)

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