When Albums Fail

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So, I'm watching some entertainment program this weekend (the kind that giddily tells you how much money X film made at the box office, and other utterly meaningless information) and the whistlehead presenter made some blithe allusion about how Madonna's new album is sliding down the charts faster than dung out of an incontinent rhino's ass (well, she didn't use those terms, exactly) and it kinda made me sad. Now, don't get me wrong -- I couldn't give a ribald, rolling rat fuck about Madonna's new album, but can you imagine how irritating/demoralizing that must be? I have a friend who spent the last two years working on his band's fourth album, and the sheer amount of work involved was staggering. I can't imagine logging all those hours, doing all that work, putting my heart out on my sleeve (I'm aware that not every artist does this) and going through all that stress and anticipation to then turn around to hear some media drone chirpily report how the source of all your creative energy is sinking faster than a gigantic anvil. It's kinda the same sort've sad I feel when I walk by a restaurant that's recently opened but that no one is ever eating in. All that effort to no great avail.

Does this bother anyone else? I'm not saying I'd rush out and buy their albums just to ease their pain, but isn't it kinda cruel?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

...I'm not saying I'd rush out and buy their albums just to ease their pain...
http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drf000/f000/f00085ha6lq.jpg
Isn't that the artists job...

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

alex, this may be your most touching moment ever. or only touching moment, which amounts to the same thing.

― Josh (Josh), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

madonna is her own worst enemy. her head is to big. i coulda told her what to do. hook up with timbaland or the neptunes and have missy write yur freakin' rap ya freakin' weirdo. and it would have been huge. someone needs to tell her that those euro dudes she's been using are yesterday's snooze. or hell, go out her door and hook up with those garage cats everyone on ilm is always raving about. much like what i said on the mick jagger thread:it ain't rocket surgery. and i don't feel bad for tommy lee or korn. did nobody buy that Korn album? and moby can go...

― scott seward, Monday, 23 June 2003 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't fall prey to the hellish blandishments of whistleheaded* "TV personalities" (a misused word if there ever was one); they don't know jack, what they talk is just noise, and even the person who fed this drivel into the teleprompters buffer was a pompous fool.
(Granted, I think all five of the pictured albums are substandard records -- especially in Madonna's/Jackson's case -- and it would actually be more alarming if they DID sell well.)

*goddamn, I love that word.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Not to minimize the disappointment, but I wonder how much someone like Madonna is primed to weather this. I can't think of any of her albums that have flopped quite this way, but she's embarrassed herself on film before and seems to have a pretty keen ability to shrug it off and come successfully back. I don't know, though -- I have absolutely no idea of the levels of self-consciousness that go into being an artist like Madonna; maybe she constantly fears for her image and future, maybe she's afraid her career is coming toward an end anyway, who knows. But it seems possible that over the decades she's learned how to take it pretty well.

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, and it's a relative failure, not a failure. It sold less than previous albums, but it's still selling hundreds of thousands of copies. If I sold 50 copies of my band's cd, my head would explode. I feel no sympathy.

― NA. (Nick A.), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I see NA's point:
Madonna could quit making records/staging concerts right this very instant and still live like a queen for the rest of her natural life. She could live off the royalties from Immaculate Collection even if every record she ever made went out of print.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

she is reaching the point of no return. the same one that jacko reached years ago. there comes a time when someone just stops listening to anyone else around them. that rap in american life and all of swept away make me think that she has lost it. no one with half an ounce of perception would ever have released those things. and no i haven't forgotten about shanghai surprise.

― scott seward, Monday, 23 June 2003 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

(Side Note: Michael Jackson isn't that lucky. He's nowhere near as clever, moneywise, as Mercenary Madge. At the rate he's going, he'll have to sell everything he owns right now just to guarantee he has money for a one room studio apartment when he's 75. He so deep in hock to Sony, I doubt he'll ever get out with anything but lint in his pockets.)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I only feel bad if I liked the record. The thing is, as it seems the consensus here proves, these records failed because they simply weren't good. (Altough I think Moby tanked because A:He quit licensing everything to ad companies, B:He fell out of style, and C:No multiple hit singles)

― Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

no, money-wise you are right. she is following his lead quality-wise, though.

― scott seward, Monday, 23 June 2003 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, alex, you kinda stacked the decks with tommy lee and moby! find someone else for us to sympathize with.

― scott seward, Monday, 23 June 2003 20:01 (twenty-two years ago)

or hell, go out her door and hook up with those garage cats everyone on ilm is always raving about.

I think Scott may have just stumbled on it! For a start, if you're going to style yourself -- as Madonna has been doin -- as a creative chameleon ala Bowie, you have to kinda stick with it (i.e. go from the apocalyptic glammy proto-punk of Diamond Dogs into the seemingly incongruous polyester-suited Philly Soul of Young Americans), otherwise you fall prey to the Let's Dance/Tonight/Never Let Me Down syndrome (i.e. abandoning your adventurous, bridge-burning chameleon switcheroo tactics in favor of attempting to cash-in on a formula that seems to work the first time). By sticking with Mirwais (who twiddled her knobs on the new album's predecessor, Music), she's defied her chameleon schtick. More Euro-bleeps. Yawn.

What she SHOULD have done, as Scott suggests, is abandon this brand of dance pop and re-discover her downtown NYC Mudd Club/Danceteria/Max's Kansas City roots and record a record with, say, DFA or some indie noisenik impressario at the helm. Now THAT might've been interesting (she already flirted with Punk imagery on her Drowned World tour....why not complete the circle?)

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

What was up with the "rap" in American Life? I still can't figure out how that happened. It's as if it's been taken from some horrible comedy sketch.

― cybele (cybele), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Regarding Tommy Lee and Moby, those were just a couple of the albums that came to mind that had failed spectacularly. I'm not asserting that either them -- let alone Korn, who I absolutely cannot stand -- deserve sympthy. Actually, I do kinda feel sorry for Tommy Lee. I mean, yeah, his music is irrefutably dire, but he seems like a sort've genuine guy. A genuinely idiotic guy, yes, but he seems to very firmly believe in what he's doing.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

How's that Fleetwood Mac album doing? I saw it in the store yesterday, and I thought to myself, "Gee, Haven't heard anything about that one in a while."

― Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Other contenders....

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004TKMJ.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008OLIJ.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000069KHY.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, i mean Madonna HAS the brand. she can do whatever the hell she wants to do with it. even if it's completely phony. that's what i was saying about Mick. not that i care really, but there is no reason on earth why mick shouldn't have the solo career of a rod stewart or hell, even phil collins. it's just poor planning. and the answer is always so simple. here's one for mick: daniel lanois+nashville hillbillys+blues and country standards= instant grammy! see? these people are blinded by their diamond encrusted sinks.

― scott seward, Monday, 23 June 2003 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Another no-show

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00001T3GA.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

This just hasn't been Annie's last five years.

― Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex in NYC: did you of all people just seriously encourage Madonna to play with punk? You, Alex in NYC? Said that about a hugely popular contemporary dance-pop star?

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

the dfa thing makes perfect sense though! people woulda called her a genius.

― scott seward, Monday, 23 June 2003 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not saying I would've bought it or condoned it, but it would have at least been more in keeping with her ambitions to continually re-invent herself, as opposed to simply treading water.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder if anyone "cool" would work with Madonna now, though. Isn't that the standard cool-producer thing; to mention how Madonna approached you, and you turned her down?

― Sam J. (samjeff), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i agree that there's something fascinating about albums that tank, even when the music isn't good and the artist is particularly unsympathetic. but i think that while successes are often pretty unpredictable, especially first successes, failure is generally easy to call, usually the first time you hear the first single, or even hear advance word about what kind of album it's going to be.

as this thread suggests, there's this kind of growing museum of spectacular flops by artists with long, successful careers, it's like everybody's got one in their closet, back in the mid-80's before their comeback, etc. and the only time you hear about them is as a punchline, or in a passing, undignified footnote in a celebratory career overview.

― Al (sitcom), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

did anyone notice how the video and rap of "American Life" was really Neneh Cherry-like? I remember reading back in the day that Madonna flipped out when "Buffalo Stance" came out, so maybe that was just her decade-delayed reaction?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 23 June 2003 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder if anyone "cool" would work with Madonna now, though. Isn't that the standard cool-producer thing; to mention how Madonna approached you, and you turned her down?

Hell, even an actual album with Stuart "Jacques Lu Cont" Price would've been preferable to the current shoddy situation.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Monday, 23 June 2003 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever happened to Neneh Cherry? There was her perfectly respectable Man album....and then nothin'!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 23 June 2003 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

They will not stop playing the Madonna album (very loudly) in the CD section of a nearby Borders. It's like they don't WANT people to buy music.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 23 June 2003 23:40 (twenty-two years ago)

The F Mac album hasn't been a huge seller either, which is a shame because it's quite lovely, but it's a very mature album, and largely lacking in big hooks..

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 23 June 2003 23:54 (twenty-two years ago)

the Fleetwood Mac album will sell better once a Stevie Nicks song is made a single (if it gets hyped). That Peacekeeper track is ass, as most of the Lindsey songs are, sadly.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 23 June 2003 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

there's a definite big Stevie single on there (title escapes me) but i disagree about Lindsey's tracks being ass. they're not up to Rumours standard, sure, but very enjoyable all the same.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Peacekeeper. A lot!

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 02:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Say You Will is one of the few albums i can be bothered listening to from start to finish lately

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 02:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Stevie's killer track: "Running Through the Garden" (her others are good also)
"Peacekeeper": more or less ass (lousy "Kodachrome" rip-off)
Other Buckingham stuff from the album: WAY better

(I love that Stevie song of course, but I'll be really shocked if it's anything like a "hit"; it's very 1985 and I don't think stations will play it.)

― scott woods (s woods), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

yes that's the one. great track. i like the title track heaps too

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 02:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, speaking of Fleetwood Mac, wasn't Tusk ('79) one of the first major superstar flops of this nature? Others from the era I can think of include Frampton's I'm in You and Bee Gees' Spirits Having Flown, but I don't believe expectations for the Frampton record were really that high in '78, and the Bee Gees record was really just a (mild) (commercial) disappointment after Saturday Night Fever--the album still yielded three #1 singles. But Tusk was surely the Ishtar or Heaven's Gate of '70s pop, no? (Except that it was pretty great.)

― scott woods (s woods), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 02:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Madonna' schtick is to jump on last year's cool, underground thing. So surely what she shoulda done this time was get Felix Da Housecat? Then we could have all groaned over her lame but multimillion selling electroc**** album. It woulld have been a very familiar Madonna type situation.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

isn't wossname 80s obsessed dude in her band now? can't he set her straight?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

"Er, Maddy, your musical direction..."

"You're fired!!!"

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude, you expect me to feel sympathy because a Madonna record or a Michael Jackson record sold 1 million instead of 7 million? Oh, my heart bleeds for them! (In the case of that Mick Jagger album that sold something like 400 copies... I don't bleed, I just laugh with gleefull schadenfreude or however you spell it.)

But then again, sales figures are all relative. I thought our record completely flopped, but then Nick A upthread says that his head would explode if he sold 50 copies, so our sales figures still look impressive to someone.

The main reason my heart doesn't bleed is thus: these people get paid whether or not the records sell or not. There's no starve or swim riding on their chart positions, only ego. I refuse to care.

― kate (kate), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 08:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Michael Jackson probably did lose millions on his album.
Hey ho.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 09:55 (twenty-two years ago)

My heart bleeds for Michael Jackson for many reasons. The man is a living freak. But his album failing to sell is not one of them.

― kate (kate), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Apparently I have low standards for head explosion.

― NA. (Nick A.), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 11:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i do have to say, 50 copies would cut me. we've sold (i think) 400 copies of our 600 pressing which i think isn't fantastic by any stretch, but selling 2000 would have me smiling for months.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, I didn't post Michael Jackson up there. That was m'lord Custos. As far as I'm concerned Michael Jackson can't fail and die horribly soon enough.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but Mikey believe or not used to be GOOD and I hope against hope that he will rise, Phoenix-like, from the ashes of his own destruction.
I keep pushing for Mikey to drump all his material attachments, and do a stripped down rekkid that costs only $5,000 to record. He has to have enough material to put out a new record by now, he just needs to do it on the cheap, so he won't dig himself in deeper.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe Madonna's new album sounds the way it does/she continues to record with Mirwais because she wants to and not because of some failed commercial gambit. Choosing your collaborators isn't just a matter of who's the hippest or who will score you the biggest hit, isn't there something in there about who you enjoy making music with?

And don't you think that if Madonna wanted to do some serious rapping she would have a)done so much earlier and b)come up with something more substantial than what's on "American Life"? It's so obvious it's just meant to be an amusing little thing thrown in there. The fact that people are still bitching about it blows my mind.

― Sean (Sean), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i wouldn't care about her rap if it was just corny or silly or girly or whatever. i never expected madonna to be a great rapper or anything. but it's horribly embarrassing. and it makes me question her sanity. well, that and swept away. i mean i already knew that she was good at looking dumb sometimes. but that thing...oy vey!

― scott seward, Tuesday, 24 June 2003 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

....American Life is a success compared to Bedtime Stories, her album from the early 90s.... it's also possibly her best album.

She was just dumb enough to keep the best tracks til last in the single schedule..... 'Nothing Fails' should've been the lead single, then 'Mother and Father', THEN 'Hollywood'. And we would, of course, have ignored American Life and Die another Day completely.

― russ t, Tuesday, 24 June 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude, Madonna did do something with Felix da Housecat.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"Mick Jagger album that sold something like 400 copies"

I love how Rolloing Stone put a spin on that in a Tour preview for his real job, saying it went "World-Wide Platinum" instead of "Platinum World-wide".

― Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe Madonna's new album sounds the way it does/she continues to record with Mirwais because she wants to and not because of some failed commercial gambit.

C'mon, it's not like she's fuckin' Captain Beefheart, THIS IS MADONNA WE'RE DISCUSSING! SHE'S PUSHING PRODUCT -- SAME AS ALWAYS

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude, Madonna did do something with Felix da Housecat.

I think he just did a few remixes. P. Diddy's recorded an album with Fleix Da Housecat, though! Or so I read somewhere, I think.

― JoB (JoB), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Has anyone heard the P. Diddy / Deep Dish yet?

Madonna I love. Her new album I do not. Everyone here is right... she should have left Mirwais. How about Prefuse, M? Dabrye? Goldfrapp got Raumschmiere [very smaart], P. Diddy got Deep Dish. Let's go folks, divvy 'em up! Drag our heroes from the underground! We're waiting!

Mayer did an Astropioneers remix, Fennesz is working with D. Sylvian, Morgenstern and Betke, let's get Bjorn Olsson in on this thing! Where's Mouse On Mars? Call up Ms. Spears now! Anyone for Voigt/Tweet? Hell yeah!

I heard Janet is going with DFA. I mean, once that Rapture hits America in October, the timing will not be better. LET'S GO, FOLKS!

― david day (winslow), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Since, according to this month's Modern Painters magazine, I have 'a reputation as a producer to rival Brian Eno's', I would like to volunteer, here and now, to produce Madonna's next album, 'Casio Nova'.

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 12:06 (twenty-two years ago)

(BTW, surfing (as you do) for information about tantric sex, I (ahem) came across this:

'Lingam is a Sanskrit word for the penis meaning Wand of Light.'

Now why couldn't Madge just come out and call that 'Ray of Light' album 'Penis'?)

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Because we don't ALL feel compelled to write songs about yer freaking penis.

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Why not, Kate? Would have made me stand to attention more than the hippy old bollocks that was 'Ray of Light'.....

― russ t, Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I enjoy Ray of Light far more than any Momus album I've ever heard. So there you go.

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

"...penis...made me stand to attention..."
I hope that juxtaposition was intentional.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

If penises were so fucking great, we'd all have them. Fortunately, at least half of us DON'T. Thank fuck for that. I think the world could do without another song about another penis, overt or metaphorical, EVER AGAIN.

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Makes peeing standing up alot easier.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

But as for the Lingam thing...Why aren't there more Yoni songs?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

First person to post "b-b-b-but what about Yoni Mitchell" gets shot in the ass with a crossbow.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I see this once-respectable thread has taken a disquietingly priapic turn.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Blame Momus.

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

(*In the back of his brane, Custos hears Beavis making his trademarked "Booooing!" sound*)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

It was, Lord Custos.

Straight up.

― russ t, Wednesday, 25 June 2003 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I blame Tommy Lee.

― Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

We need more songs about Ovarian Cysts. Madonna should do a concept album about that. (and Momus can produce it - this is sounding better by the second)

― Andrew (enneff), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I can hear it already.
and ironically enough, when such an album fails...we can post a thread about why it failed...

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm in! Madonna?

(Note punctuation.)

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry Momus, I'm having my Botox that day.

― Madonna (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I often wonder when it comes to some of those entertainment news shows whether it is one big giant mega corp taking a swipe at another big giant mega corps holding. This kind of thing has to happen all the time, considering the competition and cash at stake.

― earlnash, Wednesday, 25 June 2003 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

three months pass...

REVIVE!

I hate to add these to the roster, but might'nt they be suitable candidates?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00009XBZ8.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008OWZG.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 2 October 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I missed this thread first time around .. But I was thinking about 2 weeks ago that Madonna should do a record with Lee Ranaldo and Mike Watt (for real.) What she'll lack in sales, she'll make up for by legitimately claiming that she can and will do anything she wants. (That 'Drowned' shit was a farce, by the way.)

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 2 October 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

she'll make up for by legitimately claiming that she can and will do anything she wants
no she'd be doing what YOU want.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 2 October 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

That Metallica record is over platinum, isn't it? It's no Black Album, but it's not really a flop.

I keep pushing for Mikey (Jackson) to drump all his material attachments, and do a stripped down rekkid that costs only $5,000 to record.

Gosh, you could probably get a lot of talented people to record/play on it for free. Lots of people really love Michael, even still. I mean, think about it, Pharrell and Timberlake would probably LOVE to work with the guy and consider it a real privelege.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 2 October 2003 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Connecting thread with all albums mentioned in this thread: terrible fucking cover art. That's got to be a factor, right?

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 2 October 2003 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I am Madonna though.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 2 October 2003 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I probably shoulda known that. Sorry MaDAVEonna.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 2 October 2003 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i kinda like that Duran cover though

― Felcher (Felcher), Thursday, 2 October 2003 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously though - I meant that it would fail so miserably in the mainstream that no one could question that she did it because she wanted to - as opposed to doing it to sell 10 million copies... OK, I'm on crack.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 2 October 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

other business people do this all the time for tax purposes. and street cred.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 2 October 2003 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Connecting thread with all albums mentioned in this thread: terrible fucking cover art.

i kinda love the metallica cover. but that jane's addiction cover is astonishingly bad. is there some kind of joke or satire going on there that i'm not getting? or did they choose that cover because they actually liked it?

― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 2 October 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone really doubt that Madonna will eventually have another big hit, and probably within the next two years? She's had a lot of flops in her career. I wouldn't put her in the same category of some other folks in this thread who really have had some crushing career failures. Think about all those grunge-era bands who had a couple big albums, and now are generally seen as losers even if they sell a respectable number of records...guys like Live, Bush, Counting Crows, Pearl Jam (though their cult is still huge).

It seems like Pearl Jam's Riot Act is a much bigger flop than American Life, if just because "Hollywood" was on the famous VMA Britney kiss thing and was in those Gap ads, and has insinuated itself into more people's lives. That counts for something, right? There's always the possibility that the third or fourth single off of Madonna's record could be big too, you never know.

I think my bad cover/connecting thread thing is hugely flawed because so many albums with terrible sleeves do end up being really successful.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 2 October 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Reuniting 13 years after their previous album, I think it'd be unfair to expect monster sales from Jane's Addiction.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 2 October 2003 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

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