Great Hip-hop producers?

Timbaland's a one-trick "Pony" (which is ironically quite far away from his general trick). RZA's got a nice trick. You'll all jump at the chance to reappraise Puffy in a few years, and fuck me if he hasn't made some fucking hot party jams. I'd probably take Puffy over Timbaland or RZA, and that's not even me being deliberately Carmody- esque.

There's loads of people you've forgotten through choosing the obvious targets but I've been inhaling paint fumes in my garage for the last 90 minutes and I need to lie down, so Ethan can finish off this post for me...

Greg: you officially don't love your mom.

Even if you take a more one-tricky example like Mannie Fresh, a close listen reveals such an astonishing range of sounds and rhythms that he puts most contemporary dance/rock/whatever producers to shame; the sensation of repetitiveness is often down to the limited MCs rather than any shortcomings on the production side. It surprises me that such a talent - not to mention that of the more varied and inventive producers - is so often brushed aside with these sorts of sentiments. As for longevity: hip hop moves a bit too quickly (not always forward of course) to sustain auteur producers/mad crackpots a la dub.

Also agree with Greg re Puff Daddy - severely underrated, or maybe overslagged for "I'll Be Missing You". All the haters should go listen to Ready To Die again.

Puff's best moment: It's All About the Benjamins (original mix): sort of Jeff Mills-like in its minimalistic genius (too bad he almost ruins it by editing in a rap by his fat fuck buddy)

I've honestly never heard a Timbaland track that's made me say, "Wow!" So he used a baby crying as percussion? Didn't Chris Stein do that on the Wildstyle soundtrack in the early 80s? Yes. etc.

Premier definitely over-rated but that still makes him the best. A lot of his Gang Starr production I could take or leave. Best recent tracks? Royce Da 5'9"'s "Boom" is up there (carbon-copied by Stargate for the remix of "Rendezvous" by Craig David).

Oh, Pinefox, I'm only kidding but you really don't seem to like a lot of music to say you spend a lot of time here.

Does Timbaland still qualify as just a hiphop producer?

Nobody else noticed the amount of hiphop producers namedropping Stereolab in interviews lately?

http://cabinessence.cream.org/carmody.jpg

Oh, and did the Neptunes produce the current usher single, coz that song is grate.

What's confusing is that each of those tracks suggested about four different directions for the duo to go in, and a stylistic breadth to match Timbaland - in fact I reckon the lazy funk percussion on "Danger" may have been an inspiration for "Get Ur Freak On" - but now they've reduced their style to a basic neo-"Superthug" combo of dirty bass, chunky beat and whiny synths, only more minimal (big mistake - their best productions were always the ones that had almost too much detail). Which was fine on "Superthug", three years ago, but sounds a bit tired and overdone now. Even Swizz is more diverse.

Hell, Wyclef does many of the same things that Puffy does (admittedly with a Jamaican slant), yet most of his songs don't sound like unimaginitive rip-offs that are trying to cash in on a well-known hook.

I'm kind of derailing the discussion from production, aren't I? Sorry.

now if we're talking about POP RAP, heh, i love timbaland's stuff (everytime i think he's going to do something really awful he hits me upside the head with something even more fucked), bits of the neptunes, mannie fresh, some swizz beats (very little, actually).

never, ever gotten the obsession with dr. dre. syrupy, dull, r&b, ruined hip-hop production for 5 or 6 years. hate it. same for piff duddy. and that fat fuck the notorious b.i.g. - why do people insist he was so talented? because he's dead and no one wants to speak ill of him? he sounded like he had a learning disability and a bratwurst lodged in his throat. ditto big pun.

And is RZA really that easily pigeonholed? The only distinguishable characteristic I've gotten from his work is this inescapable "dirtiness" (most apparent on Method Man's _Tical_ - damn, that's dirty). And a fondness for a crooked sample - that is, taking a sample and whacking off a bit to make the loop sound queasy. Or am I thinking of DJ Muggs?

1) jokes about his weight are retarded, he called himself BIGGIE because he was a big motherfucker. so you're like, oh, haha, piggie, because pigs are fat. he acknowledged that he was fat in his fucking name, pointing it out is the most meaningless attempt at a joke imaginable.

2) he's one of my favorite mcs ever, not that i can say that means anything to arbitrary standards of 'greatness', just that i think he is. i'm guessing a lot of people here shitting on him just heard the late pop singles and said, oh, puffy, biggie, haha, he sucks. whereas biggie was obviously intelligent and articulate and meaningful, at least to me.

3) saying he's only been revered after his death is a huge fallacy, he was practically declared the second coming of rakim when he started out in the rap game. the pre- release hype on 'ready to die' was momentous at the time, and it didn't have shit to do with puffy. certainly he became better known after his high profile murder, but i think the general appreciation of his skills by the hiphop community was in place well before that.

4) damn right i like the life i live / cuz i went from negative to positive / and it's all good

By the way, my copy of the last Mystikal LP is a promo with no producer's credits. Who produced my favorite track "Jump"?

now on-topic: Schoolly D, he produced Saturday Night himself didn't he? It rocks.

I get Ethan's point. Used to demonise BIG on the back of "Mo' Money Mo'Problems", then heard "Juicy" and had to rethink very *very* quickly.

I also see Tim's and Greg's points about the NERD stuff I've heard. "Lapdance" was a fantastic single, but the bassline *was* "Superthug", and they'll need to go somewhere else before too long. Anyone else loving "Am I High", though? I *think* I am.

It's not like I discovered that picture during a search for you, Robin. It was just on a page I went to. I thought it was a little award you'd given them.

What's wrong with "Mo Money Mo Problems"? Throw your Rolly in the sky and wave it side to side, Robin.

Royce Da 5 9 - You Can't Touch Me

Philly's Most Wanted - Cross The Border

P Diddy - Diddy

Janet Jackson - The Who

Foxy Brown - Gangsta Boogie

Ludacris - Fatty Girls

Kelis - Young, Fresh & New

Mary J Blige - Steal Away

Angie Stone - Everyday (Neptunes Remix)

I should write about these on da blog...

p.s. besides all that, I think the Alchemist is one of the hottest up and comers even with all that shady-sell-a-beat-twice shit.

It's actually a Chris Ware self-portrait, but I guess wannabee Pitchfork editors don't need to worry abt accuracy too much...

One love,

Tony C. Maseed Productions TM.

Are there any hip-hop producers who could compare with say Lee "Scratch" Perry in terms of innovation / range / longevity?

Even the greatest I can think of : RZA / Bomb Squad / Premier / Automator / Timbaland tend to be focussed on one sound.

...as if to say that Lee Perry WASN'T focused on ONE SOUND.

Swizz Beatz
Eric Sermon
Dr. Dre
Salaam Remi
Da Beatminerz
DJ Quik
Tahir
The Bomb Squad
DJ Premier
Divine Styler
The Neptunes
The Alchemist
Outkast (circa "Aquemini")
Prince Paul

My particular favorites are probably Rza, Timbaland, Kanye West, Hi-Tek, Prince Paul, Dan the Automator (haters be damned), Premier, Organized Noize*, and, one of my current favorites who I'm CONSTANTLY forgetting: NECRO.

*I think, in the wake of Outkast's mainstream blow-up and Cee-Lo's leaving Goodie Mob, Organized Noize has gotten unfairly forgotten. Let's not forget that it was them behind shit like "Bombs Over Baghdad" and "Rosa Parks" and "Elevators" and Goodie Mob's "Cell Therapy" and all that shit. Not to mention the DUNGEON FAMILY ALBUM.

Salaam Remi produced some of the best tracks on Nas' last two albums. Also, half of the tracks on Ms. Dynamite's debut.

Let's not forget that it was them behind shit like "Bombs Over Baghdad" and "Rosa Parks"

Er, no it wasn't. At least according to the sleeve notes, "Rosa Parks" was produced by Dre and Big Boi themselves, as were most of the other tracks on Aquemini. And "Bombs Over Baghdad" was produced by someone called "Earthtone III", who also produced most of Stankonia. Does anyone know who he is?

(x-post)

Nothing ever changes! (though Tim recants later in the thread)

http://www.emimusicpub.com/worldwide/artist_profile/dj-sheats_profile.html