Tortoise: Classic or Dud

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I'll recite the conventional argument like a litany.

Are they brilliant post-rock pioneers, forging new terrain with unfashionably organic instruments replicating the structures of minimalist electronica?

Or are they a gigantic scum-sucking dud that harnessed:

(a) hipster cred from once-upon-a-time being in lame punk bands (b) a tape-crashing gimmick that sounded cool the first two [2] times you heard it (c) a very large and fashionable collection of old Can records

and fused the three to produce middlebrow elevator music, Philip Glass wanking in an interminable toked-up jam band, music so inoffensively pleasant as to be unpleasant?

― Ian White, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i'm not quite sure why Tortoise have become the almost hate figures they have (snidey hipsterism?). they are rather dull though

― gareth, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I must be listening to the wrong Toroise records (only know Millions and TNT) because the Can/Krautrock comparison always seemed way off. What Tortoise song has the funky drive of Can? Something from the first record? The stuff I hear is just smoothmellow melody.

I enjoy DJed when I listeen to it, which is almost never. And the guitar refrain in "TNT" is excellent. But they've always struck me as pretty, well, I hate to say it, boring. Maybe I'm not listening closely enough.

There's an interesting piece on the Space Age Bachelor website about Tortoise. His idea is that the band is so bland fans of all kinds are able to read whatever they like into the music (i.e., the Slint fans hear Slint, d'n'b fans hear d'n'b, jazz fans hear jazz...all the while none of these things are done well & the synthesis isn't particularly interesting.) Seems pretty accurate to me. But as I say, maybe they'll click for me some day. It's not impossible.

― Mark, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I find mysel f at the same time loving Tortoise and being bored by them. I guess its like watching STalker or Solaris

― Mike Hanle y, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"Stalker" & "Solaris" are poss my 2 favourite films. I like tortoise a bit, esp "millions now living...." But Edward Artemiev (soundtrack composer for Tarkovski movies) is, like 10000000x better.

xoxo

― Norman Fay, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I wanted to like Tortoise, many of my friends do, and liking them would give me the post-rock cred that I crave... unfortunately, the only album I've got (the first one) is an annoying bore, and come to think of it, it's high time I traded it away.

― Sean, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Having found the earlier records, especially TNT, very, very dull, I was really taken with "Standards" - one the biggest surprises of the year. There is definitely a funky edge to trax like Eden 2, Eros and Six Pack, and although you could argue that it's slightly reminiscent of a 'how to make funk from its component parts' science project, it's good fun. I wish they'd lose the marimba (or whatever it is), though.

― Dr. C, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Am always surprised at the bile that gets heaped on Tortoise on this forum - sometimes wonder if it's a post-punk hang-up abt groups with v. obvious 'chops' dabbling in anti-chop styles like electronica etc. When I finally saw them live at ATP this year I realised that the bass sound is v. v. important in their music - relatively unusual to see a 'rock' group where the rhythm section is featured more than the guitar front-line, which is why I suppose they attract Can comparisons. They're 'important' because, for me at least, they pointed a way out of the grunge wilderness - and as always, they shouldn't be blamed for all the lame Tortoise imitators who have come along since.

And I LOVE the marimba!! John McEntire one of all the all-time great percussionists.

― Andrew L, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Note that Andrew's point was what I was trying to get at during the "NSync makes brilliant record" thread -- bands like Tortoise as a striking new direction after what seemed like the major-label- sponsored "death" of the American guitar band.

And I suppose I'll be the first one here to come out massively in favor of "classic" status. I'm a bit surprised at the number of "dull" tags being put on them here -- I've always found them quite the opposite -- but I can't put my finger on what particular quality might be responsible for that split. I'm guessing it has something to do with context, and the "new direction" posited above: for those who'd spent the years preceding Tortoise's emergence following a largely rock-ish or pop-ish indie scene, I suppose the band was far more likely to seem energized and worth-every-second. If you'd spent the early nineties listening to old Cluster records, perhaps that effect would be diminished. But I'd offer, in their defense, that their lack of dullness has to do with the fact that unlike many of their antecedents, they were surprisingly not all about texture: their compositions have always struck me as far more sophisticated, melodic, and linear than many of the units one might argue they sound like. Which is to say: I think their "sound" is a red herring in terms of evaluating them, because the definable compositions beneath that "sound" would hold up equally well with a different presentation. I love bands like this, where what seems like a "sound" in the presentation sense turns out to be created more by the composition -- more by what they're playing -- than how they're playing or producing it.

As for classic status, this was cemented for me by Standards. I was somewhat afraid that they'd seem a little pale by that point, with the freshness of the scene long worn off -- but it still amazed me. I think they're one example of the genre that will continue to have relevance whatever the fate of the scene.

― Nitsuh, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh, DISCLAIMER: the construction above isn't necessarily intended to read that Cluster were "all about texture." More that Tortoise's early-90s peers were using those sorts of Germanic influences more as wallpaper than as 2x4s.

― Nitsuh, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

'Millions Now Living' (excellent J.W. reference, a slap at Jacko perhaps?) was great, it gently persuaded the listener to follow where it was going, and soon you were somewhere you didn't expect to get but was glad you got there. 'Standards' was dreadful, so linear in its execution that all the elements just sat there, not gelling, not even touching. The joins showed, except they didn't even join anything. (As I said on the N'Sync thread, it sounded like they were confused by musical questions that had been solved in the pop field years ago and forgotten, like they're trying and failing to reinvent the wheel over and over again, whereas Stereolab at least comes out and admits they're reinventing the outboard motor.)
Oh, and to be really unoriginal, I agree with everybody who says they destroyed Stereolab.

― dave q, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

One of the really great mysteries of recent times: I genuinely have no idea what people enjoy about their music. I mean, I can see the point of a lot of stuff I can't stand (metal, really dull housey stuff) but Tortoise really bewildered me. I got sent one of their albums (TNT possibly) sat down and gave a decent listen. Or tried to, but after half a track the urge to do some filing overcame me. Doesn't have anything to do with pop (in the broadest sense) as I understand it. Do people who like Tortoise like Keith Jarrett and other things I can't fathom?

― Mark Morris, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like the first three albums quite a bit, though I find myself listening to TNT more than the other two. As 'Millions' happened to be in a box on top of the stack I just moved, I put it in the player this morning for a long nap. I think the mention of 'Solaris' is apt; sometimes, Tortoise are boring. I don't really mind. It's rather pleasant sometimes. Lots of music has boring parts, I think people are just misled into thinking Tortoise's are more boring because they're quieter or more repetitive, or whatever.

I've only heard Standards a couple times and found it dire. I will try again though eventually. The opening to the first track: awesome. The 'funk' - scary.

And yes I like Keith Jarrett.

― Josh, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

thank you josh. i always suspected that tortoise fans actually like boring music.

― sundar subramanian, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ha ha, you jest but some of the tapes you sent me were boring - BUT I STILL LIKED THEM. Oh the maddening contradictions.

― Josh, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tortoise, by their pre-Standards work (as I don't know the new one), can't be judged on pop terms. Nor on technoid dance terms, nor on jazz terms. They come close, I think, to the pleasures of classical music as delivering slow, cumulative, payoffs. Indeed they are blissfully calm often, but that frequently conceals detailed rhythmic and melodic structure and growth. Tortoise = ambient?

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah Tortoise = ambient or that's the way I use it (I like all the albums). And 'Djed' is good dope-smoking music, it has that "err, how did we end up here" quality ;)

― Omar, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I can't say if Tortoise wrecked Stereolab yet because Dots And Loops is on high rotate for me at the moment,but I resent the omnipresence of John McEntire and wish he didn't have to pop up on every other post-rock record.

― Damian, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Further to Omar's dope-smoking test - 'Djed' is 'wow, leave this on', whereas 'Standards' is 'Just how long has this fucking thing been on?'

― dave q, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

See, I think we might have isolated the problem here: Tortoise (and their equally boring associates) ended up to some extent being marketed at people (ie: me) who have no interest in them or any music that burbles away in the background. Maybe on the grounds that the audience was meant to follow the Squirrel Bait - Slint - Tortoise path. And so we listened to Tortoise - because people said "hey listen to Tortoise!" and thought "What is this noodley shit?" and were resentful, and thus ranted about it, whereas I never rant about Keith Jarrett because he and all that other boring stuff exists in another realm that never bothers me.

― Mark Morris, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I just want to mention that I'm wholly surprised so few people here like this band. I feel like I should have some better argument as to why they're not dull or boring -- because I honestly can't see how someone might find this the case -- but not a whole lot springs to mind. I'd argue with the "noodling" tag, however, as everything of theirs (with the possible exception of the first record) is pretty highly structured and through-composed, and it's only on Standards than anyone (Parker, mainly) starts taking "leads" in the noodly sense.

I also think there's a performativity issue here: groups that sound like them are usually best listened to as non-performative creations, while they're best appreciated as a tightly-organized performative unit? Seeing them live changed my take on this slightly, and made me like them even more. . .

― Nitsuh, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I would've guessed there were some more who like the band too, Nitsuh. Give em a few days. ;)

― Josh, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ambrose, where are you? lost under a huge pile of Thrill Jockey records?

― gareth, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Theory: out of all the "post-rock" bands, Tortoise uniquely managed to thoroughly strip the blues away from their work. Thus, for them the post- is not a prefix, but a negation. This is both their blessing and their curse.

Discuss.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

do you see it as something special that a post-rock band is doing this? because blues-less rock is hardly a new thing. (but i don't hear all that much blues in post-rock anyway. if anything, tortoise's jazz influences might bring more blues to their music.)

― sundar subramanian, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

All traces. The guitarwork is unblues (as opposed to ANY rock guitarwork) -- focused on tone and duration rather than harmonics, tune, et cet. The rhythms are unblues -- not a 4/4 with downbeats on 1 and 3 to be found. The melodic figures, such as they exist, owe no debt to the blues tradition -- they're not minor so much as modal. I find this quite unique.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Maybe that's why I like them. I tend to want my music scrubbed as free from blues as is reasonable to expect from a blues- derived genre like rock.

― Nitsuh, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nitsuh -- rilly? Why's that? (In this vein, the velvets had the short period where they banned blues riffs fromt he band. Well, relatively long period. It helped them resist the claptonizing invasion, granted, but never destroyed the fact that Booker T and Green Onions were pretty damn similar at some fundamental level. That goes twice for Sister Ray.)

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't know, Sterling. I think it has something to do with my very earliest musical influences being new wave (a pretty blues-free idiom) at ages 4-6, and then a lot of oldies (in the 50s vocal-group doo-wop sense) for a few years after that. I grew up fairly anti- rock, never really understanding why my fellow middle-schoolers liked Guns 'n' Roses or Bon Jovi or really anything more rock than pop. I got over this around age 13 or so, as I really started listening to music in an exploratory way, but that anti-rock (or anti- bluesy rock, anyway) feeling has lingered. Hence lots of arguments, as a teenager, about why many of my friends liked Smashing Pumpkins and I didn't: it was the stadium-rock guitar that was turning me off.

Never understood Zeppelin, or the Stones, or anything with that up- front blues/rock feel. Well, I understand it now, and can enjoy it, but it's not a formative influence like it is with most people.

― Nitsuh, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i love tortoise. im not going to justify myself, even though im scared to be so bold.... i really like them. i especially like the stuff they did that even tortoise fans HATE ie not the 1st 2 albums.....

am i a dickhead

― ambrose, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

just managed to get to a computer, gareth..it was hell out there, all those toroise tour 7"s and nice cover artwork.... in fatc i love ALL the horrid wishy washy boring 'nice' artists on the archtypal boring, wishy washy etc label THRILL JOCKEY!

sam prekop, have my babies!

brokeback! i luv yr noodley bass nonsense.

er, and all the other ones.

anyway, thrill jockey do have the lonesome organist who is well good.

oh, im gonna fight my corner a bit re tortoise. many people here nad everywhere think they are very boring....well, many people here (maybe the same) luv missy elliott and her '....so addictive'. well i am listening to it now (1 pound from russia....) and i think THAT is pretty boring.

er i dont know what that proves, but im just a bit bored myself, of snide hipster posturing......i guess everyone likes having a common

― , Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Would depend on yer definition of post-rock there, Sterling. Are they further away from the blues than Seefeel? Limit it to just Thrill Jockey and we're talking a whole 'nother matter.

― Tim, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Maybe that's why I like them. I tend to want my music scrubbed as free from blues as is reasonable to expect from a blues- derived genre like rock.

Have you tried black-metal? It's a lot more amusing than Tortoise, and there's no blues at all!

― Kris, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, you got me there. I never thought of seefeel as postrock. Laika, on the other hand.

― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nitsuh, it's interesting that you bring up Smashing Pumpkins here, who I've always considered to be pretty damned un-bluesy. Corgan's guitar playing is often very modal - "Quiet" is in, like, F# Phrygian, dude! Seriously, though, I think you're a lot like my roommate in this respect, who says he pretty much despises blues influences. But I think it might be the arena-rock posturing that turns him off even more than the blues influences. He says that hair metal, and most 70s stadium rock, actually make him feel physically ill. What do you think about that stuff? BTW, I do like a lot of Tortoise's stuff, although I don't feel much personal connection with it at all. It's fascinatingly clinical, if that makes any sense. My favorite Tortoise track is #2 off Millions...

― Clarke B., Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one year passes...

reviving to counter the tortoise hating:

tortoise albums = inconsistent;
tortoise singles = great (the duophonic "gamera", the first two singles, the tortoise vs. autechre remixes, the jim o'rourke remixes).

the japanese digest compendium that blends the original tracks with rhythm resolutions and clusters remixes is the high point for me, "djed" is incredibly dense in sound.

anything done with bundy k. brown i've found to enjoy.

TNT lost me (although the nobukazu takemura remix is incredible), haven't heard anything since. i think that jeff parker is a good guitarist in theory, but his stylistic methods (volume pedal and overt jazzisms) were off-putting and eventually turned me off to the band.

― gygax!, Friday, 17 January 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

overt jazzisms

Parker is a member of the AACM, you know.

gygax! whaddaya think of Pullman?

― hstencil, Friday, 17 January 2003 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

reviving to counter the tortoise hating

A nobly doomed effort.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 17 January 2003 19:56 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought he was great in Lost Highway...

*raspberry*

you know, I never heard pullman but I really liked that Directions In Music thing with doug scharin. haha, wasn't chris brokaw also in that band? drums or guitar?

and Ned, why don't you go flounce off?

― gygax!, Friday, 17 January 2003 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

i think millions... is a great album. it's overflowing with new ideas and new collisions and really seems to be the product of a bunch of good rock'n'roll musicians all of a sudden falling in love with the possibilities of dub, jazz, and electronic manipulation.

everything afterwards, while still often enjoyable, just seems like smooth-jazz noodling in comparison.

― arjun (arjun), Friday, 17 January 2003 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, wasn't chris brokaw also in that band?

No, but Ken "Don't Call Me Bundy" Brown was.

― hstencil, Friday, 17 January 2003 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i saw them at that thrill jockey party at hackney ocean in september. i thought they were the most boring, audience-hating bunch of retards. it was such a predicable, routine performance.

and the audience wasn't much better. standing their stroking their chins and furrowing their brows. i was trying to fucking dance, dammit!

― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Friday, 17 January 2003 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't say i really like, nor listen, to tortoise much any more (just put on the Gamera single - not too bad), but they were a major stepping stone in my musical knowledge back in the day.

near the end of college, listening to lots of "college rock" (pavement et al.), i discovered tortoise, and it really blew the door open for discovering non-rock bands that are amazing and influential. while not necesarilly introducing me to lots of styles, they made me really interested in new territories -- dub, kraut rock, prog, electronic, minimalist composers like steve reich and terry riley, ennio morricone, glitch [through label mates oval], more out forms of jazz.

i think after a while the whole post rock scene became very same-y, especially from the second generation of post-rock bands, who's influences were tortoise, rather than all of the aforementioned styles tortoise borrowed from.

i once met the band, while they were Tom Ze's back up band, and they were complete assholes

and Standards was a big steaming pile of dog doo

― JasonD (JasonD), Friday, 17 January 2003 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, and after really getting into the styles of music which Tortoise built their sound around, i realized it's been done way better 30 years earlier

― JasonD (JasonD), Friday, 17 January 2003 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i saw them at that thrill jockey party at hackney ocean in september. i thought they were the most boring, audience-hating bunch of retards. it was such a predicable, routine performance.
and the audience wasn't much better. standing their stroking their chins and furrowing their brows. i was trying to fucking dance, dammit!

I saw them at the NYC show, and it was no good either. I've seen them a bunch live, tho, and that was the first time they were truly sucky. And I've danced during those other shows, too (and unlike Out Hud, they did not command me to!).

i once met the band, while they were Tom Ze's back up band, and they were complete assholes

hehehehe, well I can see that. Was that when Ze played Park West? I was at that show. Anyway, McEntire's kinda shy, which makes him seem aloof (I don't think he played with Ze). Herndon is kinda bratty sometimes. But Doug, Bitney and Jeff are some of the nicest guys I've known, ever. ESP. Doug. That man is totally a saint. Unpretentious, down-to-earth, willing and able to chat about anything/everything in a really cool way. If most "hatas" got to meet Doug and just talk with him for five mintues, their icy hearts would melt. Or not. I say that tho 'cause a lot of the hating has little to do with the music, and much to do with a (mis)perception of their personalities.

and Standards was a big steaming pile of dog doo

No disagreement here, bro-dy. Don't know why I own this.

― hstencil, Friday, 17 January 2003 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Really liked the first LP and the "Gamera" 12" and the "Why We Fight" 7". And the first remix LP. Everything else I have forgotten about.

― mosurock (mosurock), Saturday, 18 January 2003 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Hstencil you have back-up: I think Donut Bitch, during his whirlwind tour of the U.S., accidentally wound up chatting with some very nice guys by the Empty Bottle (one of whom turned out to be Doug).

― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 18 January 2003 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Dud. At a certain moment when post-hardcore / stagnating "indie rock" was tapped out, Tortoise came along and made every bad choice in moving beyond their roots. The choice to go instrumental; the academic "appreciation" for and "tasteful" emulation of a swath of very safely canonical-type avant-garde/underground/jazzish/dubby musics, each becoming drained of its life-blood when brought into the Tortoise mix; the pretentious "professionalism" of the band (whose members each seemed to want to be known as instrumental "players" in their own right); the deliberate "professionalism" of the production (from within the band itself); the feigned "unprofessionalism" of the TNT cover art; the messing with Stereolab (see above); the patent lack of fun in both their recordings and their live shows; the god-awful live cover version of the Art Ensemble of Chicago;---ACK ACK ACK! Yeah, they really bug the hell out of me. I sense that their intentions are generally good and yet the result is so bad--maybe that's what really bothers me. I mean it seems like they genuinely care about the music they like and which influences them, they have laudable DIY tendencies in wanting to also be repsonsible for the production side (thinking of McEntire here), they have some kind of ambition to push themselves into new directions--and yet, and yet all these bad things people say about them seem true, and I don't enjoy them a whit. So right but SOOOO wrong.

― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Saturday, 18 January 2003 03:55 (twenty-two years ago)

and Ned, why don't you go flounce off?

Shan't.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 18 January 2003 04:06 (twenty-two years ago)

the god-awful live cover version of the Art Ensemble of Chicago

Oh jeez ... what AECO tune did they butcher?

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 18 January 2003 07:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 368 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Millions Now Living...ftw

― Saxophone Of Futility (Michael B), Sunday, 13 July 2025 22:39 (three months ago)

Standards was always my go-to.

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 July 2025 22:51 (three months ago)

s/t

― calstars, Sunday, 13 July 2025 22:58 (three months ago)

A long long time ago I was given a mixtape by someone (honestly it's so long ago I forget who). The first track was named "Djed" by Tortoise, but it wasn't the version on Millions...; it had more of a hip-hop feel and used the famous "Come out to show them" sample of the Harlem Six as used by Steve Reich.

I'd really like to know what it was and where I could hear it again

― Floyd 'The Oyd' Lloyd (dog latin), Sunday, 13 July 2025 23:02 (three months ago)

This new track is... okay? Might need to give it another listen

― Floyd 'The Oyd' Lloyd (dog latin), Sunday, 13 July 2025 23:03 (three months ago)

Ah finally figured it out - it's the Unkle Bruise Blood remix. It's ace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI9z9ACEdQA

― Floyd 'The Oyd' Lloyd (dog latin), Sunday, 13 July 2025 23:10 (three months ago)

Exactly 5 minutes into Along The Banks Of Rivers when the original riff comes back in <3

I'd love to hear an orchestral version of that tune

― Floyd 'The Oyd' Lloyd (dog latin), Sunday, 13 July 2025 23:38 (three months ago)

Oh shit, maybe this is the next best thing though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IzHmn2ASN0

― Floyd 'The Oyd' Lloyd (dog latin), Sunday, 13 July 2025 23:40 (three months ago)

the opening of “seneca” is so cool, those intense dueling drum rolling crescendos and that cyborg breakbeat… and that incredible snare roll as the other instruments drop in

― brimstead, Monday, 14 July 2025 15:11 (three months ago)

I'm deferential to It's All Around You but yeah that and Standards was their peak for sure

― octobeard, Monday, 14 July 2025 15:16 (three months ago)

Will no-one else rep for TNT? It's always been my go-to for them.

― bored by endless ecstasy (anagram), Monday, 14 July 2025 15:20 (three months ago)

Gonna put it on now after revisiting "Millions" last night and giving it a deep listen in bed. The latter is really wonderful, but it's slow cinema and these days I'm less impressed by that sort of thing. Standards suits me best because it's a lot more immediate, a bit more "fusion" and obviously funky and tangible

― Floyd 'The Oyd' Lloyd (dog latin), Monday, 14 July 2025 15:31 (three months ago)

This is one of those bands I have completely missed and need to rectify. Oh well, better 30 years late than never.

― Black Sabaoth (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 14 July 2025 15:38 (three months ago)

Haven't really listened to 'It's All Around You' or past it. I remember readingpopular opinions saying they'd run aground on latter releases but I'm ready to give them a go

― Floyd 'The Oyd' Lloyd (dog latin), Monday, 14 July 2025 15:39 (three months ago)

standards is good but their best remains tnt

― ivy., Monday, 14 July 2025 15:42 (three months ago)

surprised to find this many standards heads here i liked it the best once upon a time!!!! but the mood and compositions of tnt are >>>>>. it’s like a downtempo/ambient club record but jazz

not sure why i’m justifying it so much. it is their consensus best afaict

― ivy., Monday, 14 July 2025 15:44 (three months ago)

My favorite way to listen to TNT is this live performance of it from 2019:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwJf5fw57Yo

― WmC, Monday, 14 July 2025 15:45 (three months ago)

re: the revive, always pleased when tortoise puts out a remix EP

― ivy., Monday, 14 July 2025 15:45 (three months ago)

I love 'Ten Day Interval'. And especially 'I Set My Face To The Hillside'. I might make a mini playlist of my very favourites.

― Floyd 'The Oyd' Lloyd (dog latin), Monday, 14 July 2025 15:46 (three months ago)

I love the first four albums plus A Lazarus Taxon, can't pick a favorite from among them. Composition quality falls off after that imo.

― WmC, Monday, 14 July 2025 15:48 (three months ago)

'The Equator' is great, but to me it also sounds a little bit like the theme tune from 'The Thin Blue Line'

― Floyd 'The Oyd' Lloyd (dog latin), Monday, 14 July 2025 15:57 (three months ago)

TNT and Standards are my 2 favorites, but I don't think they've put out anything I dislike.

― whimsical skeedaddler (Moodles), Monday, 14 July 2025 16:06 (three months ago)

The 1/2 punch of “Night Air” and “Ry Cooder” will always be my favorites

― calstars, Monday, 14 July 2025 16:10 (three months ago)

I've probably said this upthread / years ago, but the first three albums are all brilliant in different ways - in part due to the fact that a key part of their lineup was constantly shifting. Bundy Brown, David Pajo, and Jeff Parker all have a really strong imprint on the sound of this group. TNT is interesting in part because it's a hybrid of Pajo and Parker's influence. Standards is the album where the lineup solidifies and it's no accident that everything post-Standards bears a strong similarity to that album. Even though we're just talking about one guitarist, it's almost like two different bands before/after Standards.

― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Monday, 14 July 2025 16:19 (three months ago)

TNT is my easy fave, with Standards slightly behind. It’s All Around You is super underrated for sure.

― Davey D, Monday, 14 July 2025 16:33 (three months ago)

always needs to be in a list of my fav Tortoise things: this remix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iblJynuYzVU

― StanM, Monday, 14 July 2025 17:05 (three months ago)

lol a remix from one of the guys in the Black Keys come on no one wants this

― Murgatroid, Monday, 14 July 2025 17:10 (three months ago)

Weirdly I'm wearing my Tortoise tshirt today and I see this revival.

I agree with Michael B.

― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Monday, 14 July 2025 17:17 (three months ago)

the only other song I like on standards is “Monica”, that is one hot jam.

― brimstead, Monday, 14 July 2025 18:08 (three months ago)

I like Standards a LOT, but have to be in the right state of mind.

TNT and Millions are kinda “anytime” Tortoise records for me.

The s/t has never clicked fully in my mind, I should return to it.

IAAY took years and years to make sense, at the time I was almost offended by it. The subsequent LPs left me cold but again I should try again.

The new song/EP I linked above are doing SOMETHING … starting to get excited

― Clever Message Board User Name (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 14 July 2025 20:09 (three months ago)

the s/t is my favorite, great late night album, fonky bass

― brimstead, Monday, 14 July 2025 20:12 (three months ago)

A Lazarus Taxon is fabulous but I haven’t spent quite enough time with it

― Clever Message Board User Name (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 14 July 2025 20:13 (three months ago)

The first album + Millions + Gamera is all I really need. It all went a bit Tubular Bells for me circa TNT and then everything else had elements that were too fiddly. Have longed for them to go back to the simplicity of album one or the more sample based work of album two again, but have have never found it.

― Position Position, Tuesday, 15 July 2025 01:38 (three months ago)

The Bundy K. Brown/David Pajo years will always be my favorite.

"Gamera" in particular... There used to be grainy 144p footage of Pajo playing it (even though BKB wrote it) that I watched ~4000x times.

― imperial frfr (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 15 July 2025 02:16 (three months ago)

my apologies, Murgatroid.

― StanM, Tuesday, 15 July 2025 05:17 (three months ago)

Murgatroid was talking about the proposal thread revive, not your post, it turns out. I had to check Spring Heel Jack and Black Keys weren't the same people

― Floyd 'The Oyd' Lloyd (dog latin), Tuesday, 15 July 2025 07:48 (three months ago)

oh okay, thank you :-)

― StanM, Tuesday, 15 July 2025 08:14 (three months ago)

*proposal = original (autocorrect)

― Floyd 'The Oyd' Lloyd (dog latin), Tuesday, 15 July 2025 08:23 (three months ago)

This is the first three albums for me and *A Lazarus Taxon*. Just a classic run of records, *TNT* being what feels like the culmination of a sound.

I have a soft spot for *Beacons of Ancestorship*, as I wrote about it in prep for an interview I did with Doug. We sat in a pub and talked about Arnold Odermatt and oh things might have been different.

― I would prefer not to. (Chinaski), Tuesday, 15 July 2025 11:34 (three months ago)

I loved Beacons because it felt like a genuine, properly belligerent attempt to burn it all down and see what’s still twitching at the end

Which is why it’s such a bummer when they panic halfway through — _oh wait, never mind, here’s some vibraphones_

Still, that first half? Absolutely wild

― Xgau Murder Spa (nikola), Tuesday, 15 July 2025 13:27 (three months ago)

Huh listening to this now and it is very different but still very much Tortoise. Very enjoyable.

You know a band Tortoise fans should check out if they're not familiar with them is Kreidler

― Floyd 'The Oyd' Lloyd (dog latin), Tuesday, 15 July 2025 13:55 (three months ago)

jeez, no one likes The Catastrophist, do they? I mean, I do, but no one ever mentions it, not even here. "Shake Hands With Danger" is such a jam

― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 15 July 2025 19:59 (three months ago)

haha i was just about to post about it. I think The Catastrophist is really good; it's not up to the level of their peak work but it's a really nice record

― intheblanks, Tuesday, 15 July 2025 20:39 (three months ago)

I saw them play on The Catastrophist tour. I had fairly modest expectations but they were really on point. They didn't talk at all; at one point someone asked for the name of the song they played and Doug McCombs yelled "It's called JUST LISTEN TO THE FUCKING MUSIC" or something

― intheblanks, Tuesday, 15 July 2025 22:24 (three months ago)

CHARMING

― a (waterface), Wednesday, 16 July 2025 12:23 (three months ago)

Bundy K. Brown's remix "Not Quite East of the Ryan" is a pretty good deep Tortoise cut to check out.

― earlnash, Friday, 18 July 2025 03:18 (three months ago)

Y’all got me out here listening Beacons of Ancestorship for the first time in forever on my evening walk

― Clever Message Board User Name (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 18 July 2025 21:52 (three months ago)

At a TNT-era gig in Kalamazoo (or maybe it was Detroit), a person in the crowd kept yelling "Play all night!" Near the end of the set, between songs, John Herndon deadpanned "This next one is called 'All Night.'" No reaction from the crowd or the band, who just went into "The Suspension Bridge at Iguazu Falls" or whatever.

― Andy K, Saturday, 19 July 2025 21:02 (three months ago)

ha, I saw Tortoise in Kalamazoo in 1998. I don't remember that bit, but I believe it.

― jaymc, Saturday, 19 July 2025 21:06 (three months ago)

Jeff Parker solo >>>

― you have to be avant-garde and stupid at the same (flamboyant goon tie included), Sunday, 20 July 2025 06:58 (three months ago)

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