Pub Rock

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Is there a genre called pub rock? If so, what are its characteristics?

MarkH (MarkH), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I ask because I have only heard two bands described as pub rock, namely Dr. Feelgood and the Seahorses. I certainly don't think they sound like each other.

MarkH (MarkH), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"Pub rock" typically refers to a kind of rough-and-ready bloke rock that enjoyed a certain amount of popularity in the mid-to-late '70s. While neither as scabrous (nor as studied) as punk, it is now regarded as a reaction against the wooshy-space-keyb tenor of the times.

It's most notable today, I guess, as the scene that ultimately produced such luminaries as Nick Lowe, Graham Parker (kinda) and Elvis Costello. Searchable records include Brinsley Schwartz's stuff and a lot of the early Stiff Records discog.

Ess, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

10 Pub Rockers (from "Book of Rock Lists")

1. Ace
2. Bees Make Honey
3. Brinsley Schwarz
4. Chilli Willi and the Red Hot Peppers
5. Dr. Feelgood
6. Ducks Deluxe
7. Eddie and the Hot Rods
8. Eggs over Easy
9. The Kursaal Flyers
10. Roogalator

I've never heard any of these bands.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Joe Strummer was a pub rocker in the 101'ers before the Clash.

Mike Taylor (mjt), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh God, I feel old.

TMFTML (TMFTML), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Quoasis

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Pub rock also apparently looked forward to the terribly-named indie-band trend that haunts us to this very day.

Ess, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I prefer post-pub.

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Is Ian Dury Pub Rock?

T. Weiss (Timmy), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Ian Dury's original band, Kilburn & The Highroads, were definitely pub rock but I wouldn't describe The Blockheads as such.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=CASS80305232117&sql=C2627

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

"i wanna castigate the media for this pub rock revival!"

Dallas Yertle (Dallas Yertle), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Dumpy's Rusty Nuts 0\/\/N this thread.

x, Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

we want chilli willy! we want chilli willy!

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:41 (twenty-two years ago)

my place of work is a mecca for pub rock bands. oh the shame. why, eddie and the (not so) hot rods played there the other day.

and we have the wildhearts soon as well.

yipee*

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"Dumpy's Rusty Nuts 0\/\/N this thread."

They were a hard rock / bikers band surely?!? Admitedly I'm sure they played a LOT of pubs in their time but....

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 07:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Will Birch's 'No Sleep Till Canvey Island' is an essential read if you want to find out what this stuff is all about.

The origins of pub rock are in the fragmentation of the late 60's/early 70's when folks like N.Lowe, B.Schwartz and the Watt-Roy brothers sidestepped prog and hard rock and went for an American R+B (Chuck Berry, E.Cochran etc) + country-based sound. This hardened up by 73/74 with the Dr. Feelgood debut and the likes of Eggs over Easy and Ducks De Luxe, leading naturally onto an affiliation/crossover with punk (Eddie and The Hot Rods, Graham Parker, Costello). There were also elements of surrealism/comedy mixed in (Kursaals, Kilburn/Dury).

Most of the action took place in boozer venues in the S.East - the epicentre obv was Sarfend.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 08:07 (twenty-two years ago)

The Stereophonics are pub rock.... need I go on?

russ t, Wednesday, 2 July 2003 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

If MarkH actually wants to know what pub rock sounds / sounded like, Russ, The Stereophonics wouldn't be a very helpful reference point. They're only really pub rock in the lazy 80s NME / MM definition, which uses 'pub rock' as shorthand for any sort of artless guitar-led bloke's music.

Didn't Sinx0R in the early days of ILM describe the Blockheads as pub jazz rock? On reflection I think they're more pub jazz funk.

Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, if the Stereophonic were to actually turn up in a pub without any lighting effects/enormous spreakers/screaming fans, they probably wouldn't last long.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 2 July 2003 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

chilly willy! YES!

http://www.drhibbert.it/DrHibbert43/9f19_02.jpg

Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

The manager of a record store where I worked referred to Dave Edmunds ("I Hear You Knockin'[But you Can't Come In]")as Pub Rock. I always thought of him as revivalist (tho I've only heard that one song).

Will (will), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

You don't know "Crawling From the Wreckage"? Or "Girls Talk"? Or "Queen of Hearts"?

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave Edmunds had a group called Rockpile that were very much part of that scene. He also had a career as a producer. I think he produced quite a few pub rock records (and he continued on into the Stiff Records era which was really an evolution of pub rock, as mentioned earlier).

David (David), Thursday, 3 July 2003 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Dr Feelgood!

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 3 July 2003 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...
Me gusta mucho el Pub Rock y busco revistas inglesas de los años setenta con artículos de Pub Rock

Javier, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Javier so fucking OTM, you have no idea (though I'm not sure what he said.) I am still very sad I got rid of my Ducks Deluxe album years ago.

chuck, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I would buy a definitive compiliation of pub rock classics if there was one! I want to hear Bees Make Honey and Kursall Flyers and Roogolator!

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

"Kursaal!"

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I can absolutely vouch for Dr. Feelgood and Eddie and the Hot Rods, both of whom rocked hard (though not as hard as the Count Bishops, who DESERVE to be on this thread too. Though almost NOBODY has ever rocked as hard as them) (Definitive HARD-rock pub label: Chiswick Records, early home of Bishops, 101ers, and pub-rock-era Motorhead.) The one Brinsley Schwarz album I heard, I found disappointing (it was long ago, so maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing it was kinda proto-alt-country.) But late '70s/early '80s post-pub stuff by Edmunds, Lowe, Moon Martin, Graham Parker, Herman Brood, Squeeze (first two or three albums anyway) etc, is worth seeking out, and the Records and Bram Tchacovsky made real good singles in 1979. (Ace had an earlier hit with "How Long": very '70s afternoon-rock, so not sure what was pub about them, though I guess they did have Paul Carrack or one of those guys.) (I also once passed up a cut-out Kilburn and the High Roads album on sale for $3 at a record store, and have regretted it ever since. Have never heard Chily Willy and the Red Hot Peppers, though.)

chuck, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh yeah, I also wish I still owned the Motors album, oh well...

chuck, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

All 70's Ozrock is pub rock.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

best known pub rock band in history = AC/DC

the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, and Rose Tattoo are sort of the Count Bishops of Australia (which I guess makes Angel City the Dr. Feelgood.) (Count Bishops of America -- er, Point Blank or somebody? J. Geils = Feelgood, though.)

chuck, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, jeez, I've got to hear the Bishops.

Was "How Long Has This Been Going On" some blue-eyed soul element of pub-rock?

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I would buy English magazines (NME, MM, Sounds) of the Seventies with articles related to the Pub Rock.

Javier, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

You still here people talk about 'pub rock' over here (usually dismissively). There's even a band called Pub Rock (ironically).

the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

It's interesting that we're talking about a genre that includes both AC/DC and Squeeze.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it really a genre or a predicament? The predicament of being a band trying to entertain drunk people in pubs, and modifying the sound and lyrics accordingly? I suppose the predicament became a genre.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

>It's interesting that we're talking about a genre that includes both AC/DC and Squeeze<

Well, that probably makes at least as much sense as a genre that includes both AC/DC and, say, Cannibal Corpse or somebody.

chuck, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:30 (twenty-one years ago)

OTM

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Not trying to stir up trouble or anything, but it may also include early Judas Priest, playing all those working mens clubs up north in '74.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Let's not call the Fall "pub-rock," though.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

My guess is that Judas Priest might not be either r&b or c&w-oriented enough to qualify, but maybe I'm wrong about their earliest stuff (which, last time I heard it, sounded not quite as cold-assed as I expected.) I would say, though, that AC/DC were only pub rock before Bon died. And Motorhead were only pub rock for a few months, I think.

chuck, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Saxon, though, MIGHT be pub rock (if Status Quo were, anyway).

(REAL American Count Bishops/Rose Tattoo, obviously: ZZ Top, duh!)

chuck, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Chuck/Music Mole, were Mi-Sex pub rock aliens?

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Mi-Sex were pub rock aliens, yes. They illustrate the dangers of trying to be Gary Numan when you're a pub rock band. Aliens do not drink beer. They drink ice-blue cocktails or take pills.

Also, as Chuck says, AC/DC and Motorhead were only pub rock in their earlier days. Then they made the tradition to stadium rock I suppose.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:11 (twenty-one years ago)

copied from WordIQ.com:

Pub rock is a style of Australian rock and roll popular throughout the 1970s and 1980s and still influencing contemporary Australian music today. The term came from the venues at which most of these bands originally played at: inner-suburban pubs (short for the British term public house which is rarely used in Australia in its full form). These often noisy, hot, and crowded establishments were largely frequented by men and women in their 20s, mainly of Anglo-Celtic origin rather than members of Australia's swelling immigrant communities.

It could be argued that the very venues many of the bands played in (pubs), had a major influence on the evolution of their music and sound. The venues were more often than not small and the crowds - often alcohol-fueled - were there for the experience rather than to see a "name band". Thus, an emphasis on simple, rhythm-based songs grew. With the sound in many of the rooms far from ideal for live music, an emphasis on a very loud snare- and kick-drum and driving bass-guitar grew. Guitarists tended to rely on simple, repetitve riffs, rather than more complex solos or counter-melodies. This might explain why, even in studios and larger arenas and stadia, many of the bands who cut their teeth in pubs still relied on an exaggerated drum sound and fairly simple musical arrangements.

A band like Hunters & Collectors, for example, saw their sound harden from their arty origins (which included a brass-section, experimental percussion and complex arrangements) to a more straightforward rock sound with emphasis on drums, bass and simple guitar riffs; a sound that more suited the beer barns they were forced to play in over their extensive touring career.

Though Australia has a small population, the sheer number of venues that bands could play in, mainly along the Eastern coast, meant that a band could tour extensively, often playing every night for long periods. This would allow bands such as INXS and Midnight Oil to take their well-honed live skills into large venues in the US and Europe with ease.

Changes to entertainment options - and an audience with a growing musical sophistication - have to an extent seen the end of Aussie Pub Rock as an entity. The advent of dance music and the DJ have taken away the need to squeeze into a pub and see a 4/4 rock band.

Sydney in particular has seen many staple live music venues close, falling victim to increasing rents in gentrified areas; the restrictions on volume caused by an influx of people moving back to city and inner suburbs; and the popularity of the DJ and dance music.

Melbourne, too, has lost venues, including the Continental in Prahran and the Punters Club in Fitzroy, but is considered to be the Australian "home" of live music.

The newer generation of bands that could be considered the followers of the Pub Rock tradition includes: Jet, The Living End, Magic Dirt, You Am I, and Pacifier.

Ironically, every few years it's still possible to catch the likes of Cold Chisel or The Angels , as they reform to cash-in on their older and more affluent core of fans, who pay top-dollar to see these former Pub Rock greats in comfortable and usually seated arenas.


Notable pub rock bands:
Cold Chisel
Hunters and Collectors
INXS
Rose Tatoo
The Angels
Hoodoo Gurus
AC/DC

the music mole (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:17 (twenty-one years ago)

If you ask me Radio Birdman should be on that list too.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i went and saw the stems earlier this year, are they pub rock? they seemed so to me. but i don't know anything.

gem (trisk), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:21 (twenty-one years ago)

They're psychedelic 60's garage-retro pop. That band Blues Hammer in Ghost World - total pub rock.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:27 (twenty-one years ago)

crikey. are there a lot of bands in the "psychedelic 60s garage-retro pop" genre? that's quite a mouthful.

gem (trisk), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:31 (twenty-one years ago)

what about weddings parties anything... i used to love seeing them at the pub. and ed kuepper.

nb: this trend may have been correlated to my love for the pub.

gem (trisk), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes to Ed Kuepper I reckon!

I'm not sure what you'd call WPA - if they're pub rock, so are The Pogues. Celtic Pub Rock perhaps?

the music mole (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:39 (twenty-one years ago)

The Fauves: post modern, ironic pub rock.

http://www.thefauves.com/disco.htm

the music mole (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:41 (twenty-one years ago)

i suppose i am defining it a bit wrongly - "bands that i loved seeing at the pub" doesn't necessarily = "pub rock". but i can't imagine seeing WPA/mick thomas (or the pogues for that matter) anywhere BUT at a pub.

gem (trisk), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i used to love died pretty at the pub too. maybe this is all indicative of how much time i spent in pubs in the 90s

gem (trisk), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't imagine seeing WPA anywhere else but a pub either. So they must be pub rock.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

"Is it really a genre or a predicament? The predicament of being a band trying to entertain drunk people in pubs, and modifying the sound and lyrics accordingly? I suppose the predicament became a genre."

I think the predicament was actually far larger and far more fundamental than that.

Rock music (as distinct from pop) at the time was largely dominated by a relatively small number of bands who could actually fill stadia (what Dadaismus has rightly described on a couple of other threads as "The Rock Aristocracy") and there was relatively little middle-ground between playing huge stadia and small pubs.

Consequently the average new band was painfully aware that there was very little chance for them to ever graduate from the "pub circuit" to anything bigger and a huge bottle-neck developed.

Let's not forget that (just for example) before signing to Stiff Records, Elvis Costello, Ian Dury, Dave Edmunds, Lew Lewis, Nick Lowe etc. etc. had all approached and either been rejected or dropped by all the major record labels!

Hence also why there came to be so much resentment of "The Rock Aristocracy" and why so many people from the pub scene were prepared to leap on board the Punk bandwagon when it came along and presented an opportunity for them to break through to a larger audience.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 09:00 (twenty-one years ago)

The Stranglers, for example, and The Clash.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 09:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean I always thought pub-rock was Brinsley Schwarz, Dr. Feelgood, those guys. English groups harking back to r&b and New Orleans rock and roll, and to '60s beat-groups. The Records were a power-pop band; Rooglator was a jazzy r&b band from Cincinnati who did one great tune, "Cincinnati Fatback." I don't get AC/DC as pub-rock at all, altho I like AC/DC fine. Brinsley Schwarz made one great album, "Nervous on the Road," which is a bit country-rock I suppose. But "Nervous on the Road" is a bit too pawky, I guess the word is, to compare to that solemn alt-country shit these days. They were way too enamored of the Band, though, and their "New Favourites" album sounds like Pablo Cruise in the French Quarter. And yeah, Ace, who were boring as shit. Squeeze was a pop band, I would think. To me the whole thing was just a version of that general back-to-the-fifties swing that in America gave us the Flamin Groovies.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

NRBQ?

sanjay, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

agreed on all counts, eddie.

peter smith (plsmith), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I would think Brownsville Station and Earthquake fit it here somewhere, too, if Flamin Groovies do (which they should). (But Eddie, you do know that those early AC/DC albums have plenty of second-line Mardi Gras boogie woogie in their big balls, right??)

chuck, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

And you're right, too, about the Records being a powerpop band (one of the few good ones, EVER), but given their Motors/Kursaals connection they (and Bram Tchaicovky) were at least POST-pub powerpop, right??

chuck, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Squeeze, though, didn't really *start out* as a powerpop band; their *UK Squeeze* debut was more post-Sparks/Tubes/Queen prog-glammy; their second and best album, *Cool for Cats,* is the one I'd almost count as pub rock. (First two Boomtown Rats albums would probably qualify, too, and everything the Fabulous Poodles ever did.)

chuck, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought of another band i loved seeing at the pub - the celibate rifles! aaaah the pub. we laughed we cried.

gem (trisk), Thursday, 12 August 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

My fave pubrock band was Serious Drinking. I'm still on the prowl for their magnificent lp "The Revolution Starts At Closing Time". I here its been reissued on a label somehow associated with Billy Bragg. They might be the only band to cover both "12XU" and "Young Hearts Run Free".

peepee (peepee), Thursday, 12 August 2004 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)

"Squeeze, though, didn't really *start out* as a powerpop band; their *UK Squeeze* debut was more post-Sparks/Tubes/Queen prog-glammy...."

.... and prior to that they used to appear on stage wearing dirty "flasher" macs and sing songs about wanking and making obscene phone calls!

They called their first EP "Packet Of Three" (do condoms still come in packets of three, or do I need to explain that reference to our younger readers?!?); it was produced by John Cale; released by Mark ("Sniffing Glue" / "Alternative TV") Perry and had a picture on the front cover that showed Glenn Tilbrook leaping into the air (pogoing?) while the rest of the band (all of whom appear to be wearing drainpipe jeans and DM's incidentally - which of course was still extremely unusual in July 1977) and playing against what looked like the wall of a factory with a Union Jack hung on it.

http://www.uksqueeze.freeserve.co.uk/images/dfc01-a1.jpg

It's almost as if they couldn't decide which bandwagon to jump on first!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 12 August 2004 08:31 (twenty-one years ago)

four weeks pass...
I look for live material of bands of Pub Rock. If somebody has something that communicates it to me.

Javier, Thursday, 9 September 2004 15:22 (twenty years ago)

Chuck D and John Lydon paid tribute to pub-rock by naming their bands Public Enemy and Public Image Ltd., respectively.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 9 September 2004 15:37 (twenty years ago)

seven months pass...
Javier is a bit of a tragic character on this thread.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 25 April 2005 22:34 (twenty years ago)

three years pass...

I have been listening to 2-4-6-8 Motorway by Tom Robinson Band nonstop for the past 24 hours. Give me more proto-punk fist pumping foot stomping pub rock! Where is Alex in NYC when you need him??

admrl, Thursday, 31 July 2008 22:56 (seventeen years ago)

Is oi! punk pub rock?

moley, Thursday, 31 July 2008 23:10 (seventeen years ago)

no

it's pub rock punk

admrl, Thursday, 31 July 2008 23:14 (seventeen years ago)

ten years pass...

le pub rock francaise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owUbQy74qDY

DEATH PUPPET (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 11:05 (six years ago)


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