What's your reference point / era? (What coloured your judgement / taste / philosophy re; pop music?

I discovered Punk in 1977 at the age of 14 and one way or another it completely changed the direction of my life and has helped to form and inform just about everything about me ever since.

At the time it just didn't seem to be something you could be in any way ambivalent about: you were either totally committed to it (and being spat at in the street by passers by and having your head kicked in on a regular basis for your troubles) or you were against it. I was committed to it - at least as much as a 14 year old school kid could be! Maybe on a psychological level the idea of identifying myself as part of a persecuted minority was part of the attraction at the time.

By about 1979 Punk seemed to have become almost acceptable: the spitting and the kickings had pretty much stopped (indeed, the very kids who had been wearing flares and kicking my head in 2 years earlier were now wearing drainpipe jeans and DM's and leather jackets and seeking out my opinion about The Cortinas or The Depressions or Eater or The Suburban Studs!) but an awful lot of the fun and excitement had gone too.

I got involved in the Anarcho-Punk scene for a while in an attempt to avoid what I saw as the codification, homogenisation and castration of the punk scene, and that certainly helped to develop and define my political beliefs.

However my musical tastes still covered most of the directions that the original Punk scene was being divided (and ruled) into by the industry and the media: New Wave, Post-Punk, Goth, Indie etc. etc. etc.; with probably the least affection for the music from that part of the scene that had actually been officially designated "Punk" and it's bastard offspring Oi! and Hardcore.

Of course Punk's influence wasn't always entirely positive, e.g. it took a long time before I was able to open my mind and ears to the fact that actually there was a hell of a lot of extremely good music recorded before 1977 which didn't appear on the approved list for good little punkers; and my automatic distrust of and confrontational approach towards all authority figures hasn't always proved to be helpful either!

Nevertheless I believe Punk had a major and mostly positive impact not only on the music scene but on many aspects of life in the UK at least - certainly far more than any other comparable movement since - and I'm immensely proud to have been somewhere out on the peripheries and maybe even an infinitessimally small part of that.

The point is, I think that musical tastes are formed quite early. But there is an explosion in the late teens/early 20s because that is when you have the time/access to discover a vast explosion of bands that *fit* that taste.

Being in my early 30s, I fit into the shoegazer schematic nicely, but I think that has more to do with things that were laid down earlier - Duran giving me my love of texture; growing up with parents of a certain age giving me early exposure to 60s music, etc.

There was a punk in The Police?

Oh - you must mean Henri Padovani!

No.

Stewart; how much has punk shaped what you listen to now, both brand new music and older stuff you still play?

My tastes were totally shaped by my age (23); Nine Inch Nails and Rancid were enormous formative influences that I still hold in huge regard today, and nobody old seems to really rate either of them.

Yes, I agree. I am a lot less tolerant now than when I was 22. I was more than willing to give bands chances back then; now I am more likely to dismiss them for very superficial reasons.

I guess I do still tend to consider quite a lot of the pre-'77 stuff that I listen to in terms of it's impact on Punk. I don't just mean the obvious "Proto-Punk" stuff either but all sorts of different things - even the Glam stuff that I'd been listening to myself a couple of years beforehand (on a purely personal level I suspect that I was originally drawn to The Damned for very much the same reasons as I'd been drawn to Gary Glitter when I first started taking an interest in popular music a few years earlier!).

As regards post-'77 stuff, well I guess the vast majority of what I listen to now falls very loosely into the "Alternative" / "Indie" categories and I tend to believe that one way or another Punk was pretty much fundamental in shaping what ALL of us listen to now in those categories.

Do you see those two views as contradictory or even mutually exclusive then?

I think I'd subscribe to both views myself i.e. "punk = never be the same again = try all sorts of other things (whether that be buying or making music or indeed doing or being ANYTHING!)"

I think that probably depends on your personality and how receptive (impresssionable?) you are (age is obviously a major factor here); how deeply you get involved in a particular scene; and how much metaphysical / spiritual / philosophical depth your chosen scene has to offer.

"Is the punk revolution something that people under the age of 40 are missing out on, being too young?"

Well, yes, but unfortunately I don't think you could have something like that come along every 5 - 10 years!

"Can it / did it happen again? Acid house? Britpop?"

I have no doubt that there are any number of people who got more out of their involvement in Acid House / Britpop / whatever than any number of other people did out of their involvement in Punk for any number of different reasons.

If you're asking whether Acid House / Britpop / whatever had anything like the impact either musically or culturally that Punk did then I'm absolutely convinced that they didn't, partly because things just hadn't had long enough to get bad enough to necessitate something like Punk.

If you're asking whether Acid House / Britpop / whatever had anything like the metaphysical / spiritual / philosophical depth that Punk had, then I can only say that I've see no evidence of it personally.

Will it happen again? Almost certainly; but not when you're expecting it to and not looking anything like you might expect it to. In that respect, maybe it HAS happened again - just not in music.

My life continues to be informed by the peculiar principles and aesthetics of 15 year old me. But I'm not right.

just thought i'd share that with you.

LOL! My life continues to be informed by the peculiar principles and aesthetics of a 15 year old punk called Eddie. Neither of us are right.

Although he's more 25 now.

I am now, at 31, completely soured on punk—what it's become makes me wonder whether it was ever any good. I hear about one hip-hop record a year, other than what I catch by leaving MTV on as my default TV channel. Indie rock gave me the heaves the first time I heard it, and my opinion hasn't changed—if anything, it's gotten more intractable.

I spend most of my time these days listening to early-70s prog (Yes and King Crimson), jazz (early-70s fusion and late-60s to present "free"), and vast amounts of death metal. So I guess I'm just as focused on instrumental technique as I was when I was worshipping Judas Priest's twin lead guitarists at 13. Oh, and I love Radiohead, but I love Cafe Tacuba more.

The next one I remember is permanently borrowing a copy of Tom Petty's Wildflowers from a friend of my brother. It's still the only Petty album I really like, and got me away from the all-punk all-the-time stuff I was listening to.

I never to alternative rock radio, again I mostly listened to what my brother or parents had on (I don't recall ever having a radio of my own until I got a car, just tape/record/CD players), which probably explains my attachment to early-to-mid '90s Gen-X slacker pop (Lisa Loeb, Suzanne Vega, Juliana Hatfield). I never even owned Dookie or Nevermind until after the turn of the century. (And I'm happy I only paid $2 for Nevermind. I just don't get it.)

The big formative experience for me, musically, was earning enough money to buy lots and lots of albums. I've been able to branch out into stuff I normally wouldn't have tried, and don't get concentrated in any one style or genre anymore. Since I quit drinking and partying, I've been able to buy even more.

And the latest one was my introduction to hip-hop, which I'd always avoided. The usual start-off-with-a-Def Jux album approach.

Yeah, that reminds me why I was prepared to accept all those kickings.

both of these feel true for me. as are many of stewarts comments above.

however there have been moments where these feelings have been reinvigorated/renewed at later ages by "what the kids are into now" revelations (acid/jungle/er...)

maybe its a peter pan syndrome. what should i be listening to now kids?

jack where the hell did you hear all those things in the five oh thrizzy? not in high school, no you didn't < /claim to know stuff about you just cause we went to school together>

so the answer is, by accident in college. i wanted a radio show and got one and started pulling things out of the stacks of unplayed vinyl. i heard things i had never heard before ever in the closed confines of Cougartown. i realized i actually liked music. i just never had really heard anything that had made me tingle before.

Another thought that occurs -- we're all assuming early/mid teens are formative (and they are, of course), but another formative time is young childhood. For me, watching (and hearing obv.) those Beatles Apple labels rotate is indelible. I rarely listen to the Beatles now, but something of their (essence? aesthetic?) has probably remained to inform what I love now. And I often wonder whether my lifelong love for and fascination with female singers harkens back to me mam's constant spinning of those Dusty, Sandie and Petula 45s.

We had Rick's Record Rack in town and that's how I heard all the weird 1970s shit I had read about in Christgau's guide and The book of rock lists (both in the Canby Public Library where I spent all my time). Also, the library had a strange Velvets/Lou Reed comp and Yardbirds and all kinds of strange stuff that you wouldn't expect in the library of a town of 5000 people in the middle of Crack-of-My-Ass County.

Two different routes but we both found our way here. That's kinda fucked up and hilarious if you think about it.

actually, now that i remember more, the class of 87 voted for Bon Jovi -- it might have been something off Slippery When Wet but the Admin made them change it -- ha ha ha.

in walla walla the only half way decent place to buy records was this store owned by an aging hippy with the horrible name Hot Poop.

I sorta accidentally stumbled over Ned's Top 136 Albums of the 90's list and sorta took of from there.

But scenewise, everything that's been said about Punk happened to me twice - at Huggy Bear gigs in 92 and at Brighton squat parties in the summer of 95. I've never been the same since either of those experiences.

This is a great topic (even though it hasn't received much love in about 6 years, lol). I was a late bloomer when it comes to discovering music "beyond radio", as it were. OK Computer came out the month I turned 18, so that had a pretty large impact on my listening habits from then on.

This topic I find fascinating, largely because I don't really have a clue what my reference point is. As a kid in elementary school, I listened to pop music on the radio, but not religiously, and when I was old enough to buy my own records, it was Beatles, Beach Boys, Led Zeppelin, older stuff. If I had to label it, I'd say my reference point was classic rock and prog filtered through 80s TV. Or, mid-80s pop filtered through the second side of Abbey Road. (ha, maybe that's why i found xtc so early!)

However, another part of me says everyone has multiple reference points. The "core" of me tends to change depending on what I'm reacting to: if I'm listening to a new Of Montreal song, maybe I bias towards early 70s, post-Beatles pop; if I'm listening to Max Tundra, I might actually wonder what it would sound like in 15 years; if I'm listening to a new Boredoms track, I'm tending to bias... towards an older Boredoms track. ;)

i've brought this up before on other threads i think, but i am old and i repeat myself a lot. when i was a little kid in the early 70's my two huge faves were the beatles and sly & the family stone. i'm pretty sure that those two groups have colored my tastes ever since. and that there are few genres that they didn't prepare me for. cuz in those two groups is pretty much all of 20th century western music. and some non-western music as well. (i also have to credit my family of music obsessives too though. i heard a LOT of music as a kid.)

Top 40 from about 1981 to 1984, really. Most everything post-disco in particular that wasn't hip-hop (since I didn't have the opportunity/knowledge to hear that at the time). Ultimately, drums over guitars. And yet rock-as-such is what I feel most comfortable writing about, go figure.

In high school (during the mid-80s), all I was exposed to was Top 40 Radio and classic rock. In my freshman year of college, I began listening to what was, at the time, called "college rock" and summarized in that Left Of The Dial box set. That mix of styles and genres is my reference point, and it's definitely linked to my age.

I'm still as much of a music fan as I was at 18 (I'm 37). What's changed is I no longer feel a generational connection to any particular band/scene, like this is "my music." Doesn't mean I can't appreciate, or even love it, though.

Last time I felt that way about music was late 80s, early 90s. The three records that had the biggest impact on me, and that I felt connected to were Daydream Nation, Nevermind & Slanted and Enchanted.

Classical music still probably is my main reference point (it's where I started obsessing over sound as a kid), so the automatic question my mind asks itself when listening to a piece of music is how would it sound like---whether it be Kylie Minogue or a hip-hop track or whatever---arranged in the 1800s/early 1900s.

Homophobia and some shitty people aside, growing up in the 90s in Latin America was awesome. People seemed to be kind of... actively inviting weirdness in their pop music at the time here. e.g., MTV Latino used to be a *fantastic* way for me to find great music. They played a lot of Björk, Sonic Youth, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Portishead, Radiohead, etc. They'd even constantly play those lovely novelty hits, like the first Squirrel Nuts Zipper single & White Town's "Your Woman." It's music I still love now, and I vividly remember buying my first album ever --- Debut --- as a result of having my mind blown by the "Human Behavior" video.

And of course it helps that my mother raised me listening to a lot of gorgeous Motown records & dramatic Spanish music.