Today, BBC: "The Great British Music Debate" 5 hour special

The BBC press info/ website - mutters on about "the music industry" [mostly record companies and retail, and threat of piracy] but completely ignores a vital part of the music industry: the role of "the media": [TV, print, radio, or direct forms of media interaction: live music or clubs]

a better question: Is British media failing music listeners and artists?

from thereon i lost interest, hardy har

in a way yes, there's too much herd-mentality (ok what are NME saying is cool this week? right lets also hype that up then) and no real risk-taking

when the most exciting refreshing music show on TV is The Whistle test Years then you know there's a problem, but its not necessarily with the industry.

http://www.londumb.co.uk/camp2.html

Five specialist music shows have recently been axed, as follows:

Show's lost: Last broadcast

Imran Khan 12 - 3am
(Last broadcast Fri 11/10)

Ross Allen 11pm -2am Sun
(Last broadcast 13/10)

Coldcut 12 - 2am Mon
(Last broadcast 21/10)

Kevin Le Gendre 12 - 2a Tue
(Last broadcast 22/10)

Bob Jones 12 - 2am Thu
(Last broadcast 24/10)

None of these shows had ever been properly publicised or trailed in order to help build an audience.

Yes, that is the type of diversity, freshness, ideas and passion for music - i demand from Radio ! [shame that Xfm shuffled the schedules]

i find 6music plays too much dull songs rock conservatism.

don't rate Xfm's playlists [far too much conformist alt rock tripe for teenagers] and only listen to a select few shows.

I find Kiss 100 plays dumb pop dance/ boring mainstream hip hop/ drab rnb in the day.. and shunts a few token specialists shows way after midnight.

Virgin /// ghastly trad songs rock station, never listen.

then there are the moronic stations for the masses: heart, capital and their ilk. also don't like the "gold format" commercial stations.

bbc local radio, bbc london does not support specialist music any more.

radio 2 not my bag, far too melodic.

listen to a few specialist on radio 3 (Mixing It, Jazz on 3] but classical is not my bag.

...face upto the facts radio in the UK is mostly rotten.

radio, though, must heal itself

Absolutely correct.

Key moment: Lamacq taking over the evening slot. "British indie music" killed, stone dead, right there.

This confirms existence of 12 ft lizards.

(and an aside - didn't Coldplay release 'Shiver' on Parlophone a while before they came up withe risible 'Yello'?)

1 b-sides comp
2 new swing/covers album
3 a-sides comp/live comp
4 new album
5 ultimate greatest hits

Yeah, right.

The point at which I go irretrievably insane. No way back.

I'd be HIGHLY surprised if that's a fixed sum. Usually those figures are a percentage x estimated sales (and optimistic expectations = high figure = big headlines = self-fulfilling prophecy).

Most agreed that the acts were awful, great minds think alike

1. i had down as a James clone [Clarksevile] SNAP
2. I correctly identified a Texas clone [Speedway] SNAP
3. boring singer songwriter [Peppercorn]
4. cabaret circuit performer boring MOR slop [Rob Reynolds]
5. AOR female vox - Sheryl Crowe clone [Emma Holland]

they are linked here in a slightly different order

[NO] TALENT SHOWCASE
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/events/greatdebate/band_showcase.shtml

not a bad deal.
now, if only he was talented musically. . .

he'd still be rubbish, and probably even more egotistical and idolised than he already is so just be glad he's a sub-mediocre schmuck!

so, £25 million so far on the williams (if the deal details are correct) and the mariah carey pay-off was ourageous as well. £20 odd million for mute records.

that's a hell of a lot.

and to think of the music they could have spent it on

Paul Weller bemoaned the lack of investment in bands
Nearly 70% of the thousands of listeners who tuned in to BBC Radio 2's Great Music Debate said they thought the single would not survive.
The interactive debate on the future of the music industry lasted for five hours, with live discussions and documentaries about the troubled state of the recording business in the UK.

Singers Paul Weller and David Gray were among contributors to the debate - staged to discuss why CD sales had dropped and what could be done to regenerate the industry.

Listeners voted on the evening's central question - whether the single could survive.

More than two out of three listeners - a total of 69% - believed it would not last. Only 31% said it would.

If the first album doesn't sell a million, you don't always get the chance to make a second one

Paul Weller

Last year, album sales fell by 4%, while music sales dropped by 13% in the first quarter of 2003.

Contributors blamed a number of factors, including the trend towards music inspired by TV talent search programmes such as Popstars.

Use of the internet to obtain tracks for free had also contributed to the slump, they suggested.

And they pointed to disproportionately high prices for singles compared with albums.

The emergence of dance culture was also singled out, with a trend towards clubbing among young consumers rather than album and single buying.

Beverley Knight said some chart-toppers were "mediocre"
Complaints were raised saying that the major record labels were not willing to invest enough in new acts.

Former The Jam frontman Weller said: "Unfortunately these days if you don't get a hit single, or the first album doesn't sell a million, you don't always get the chance to make a second one.

"A band may not make the best album first time but you don't know what they are going to make down the line. It could be fantastic."

Singer Beverley Knight said some songs were topping the charts that no-one could name or even remember.

"Back in the day the chances were that unless it was a novelty record, it was a really good song," she said.

Free music today will mean no music tomorrow,

BPI executive chairman Peter Jamieson

"It's hard to sit at home and watch bands you know have been put together by a TV show. It's mediocrity dressed up as greatness."

In a separate speech to the UK music industry's ruling body, the British Phonographic Industry (BPI), executive chairman Peter Jamieson called on members to embrace new technology.

But he warned that online music pirates must not be allowed to thrive at the expense of artists and the record industry.

"Free music today will mean no music tomorrow," he said.

"We all need to co-operate in a move to authorisation of all internet music. Anarchy cannot rule."

Never actually heard clubbing being blamed for youngsters not buying singles & albums before. Though many in the retail industry say most singles are sold to under 18 year old girls. Not as much by older male/females.

Contributors blamed a number of factors, including the trend towards music inspired by TV talent search programmes such as Popstars.

this despite sales of HearSay, Will Young and Girls Aloud's first singles being among the biggest of the year.

Use of the internet to obtain tracks for free had also contributed to the slump, they suggested.

i'm still inclined to believe the number of people who don't buy what they would've bought had they not been able to download it for free is relatively small.

And they pointed to disproportionately high prices for singles compared with albums.

DVD singles are also a waste of money and media. if i buy a DVD i expect it to be full to capacity with content.

The emergence of dance culture was also singled out, with a trend towards clubbing among young consumers rather than album and single buying.

makes no real sense - number of people clubbing has been constant for 20 years?

"A band may not make the best album first time but you don't know what they are going to make down the line. It could be fantastic."

so let them go on the dole, work hard and make that fantastic album, THEN we'll discuss payment.

Singer Beverley Knight said some songs were topping the charts that no-one could name or even remember.

what was that song she did again? heh, i agree though (Name all four of B*Witched's number one singles this instant...)

"Back in the day the chances were that unless it was a novelty record, it was a really good song," she said.

not really true.

Free music today will mean no music tomorrow,

you mean 'no music INDUSTRY'

PAUL WELLER has branded record labels as "scum" and said that if THE JAM had emerged today, they might never have made it.

Weller's comments came during a debate about the state of the music industry organised by BBC Radio 2. The Modfather said: ""Unfortunately these days if you don't get a hit single, or your first album doesn't sell one point whatever million, you don't get a chance to make your second one.

"I wonder whether The Jam would have got on to 'All Mod Cons' - we would have probably been dropped by then, as the first two records didn't sell that well."

http://www.nme.com/news/105492.htm

(actually of this is abt dimensions of that tussle: not that anyone addressed this, of course)

I'm watching this as a kinda group thing among ppl on a chatroom but hellfuckme it's the worst of all ever

Mark Ronson just claimed that Led Zeppelin were responsible for hip-hop

I stopped watching this.