Alice Coltrane - S/D

I like Pharoah Sanders playing here, especially on the title track. More restrained than usual, which I think is a plus, but not less expressive for it.

(This is the only AC album I've heard all the way through.)

and what's the one where it's just her on organ and her son on drums for all of side 2? That one RULES

julio, have you heard any of her other albums since that one?

(except for me it's bed time right now)

maybe turning into a ''babbling pseudo-mystico-airhead'' wasn't such a bad thing from what jason is saying above.

dada is correct- the 4 extra tracks are good and pharoah makes a mark, to say the least (apart from the flute solo was inaudible but the liner notes say that). one of the extra tracks is a piano solo from alice and that is a fitting end.

bcz of this thread i got also got 'Ptah...' and 'journey...', which i plan to listen to tonight.

I don't know what a wammy bar is, but I think I know exactly what you are talking about, since I'm listening to Transfiguration (which I just bought). My favorite thing, I'm afraid, is simply the sound of the electric organ. Her playing seems too noodly for me a lot of the time. I kind of like this bass solo. (I seem to suddenly be receptive to bass solos lately. Very peculiar.)

is journey more like pharoah sanders' karma? i know hes on it... what is a good comparison-point album?

yes

sorry but i don't think JtS is at all like karma!! karma builds to an enormous energy music freakout. there's no crescendo on JtS. it's much calmer and prettier and less "out" than either karma or universal consciousness. it's really similar to ptah the el daoud, actually, very eastern and exotic and slow and blissful.

my favorite alice coltrane albs are "world galaxy" (for reasons jason pointed out above) and definitely "the elements", which is actually a joe henderson + alice coltrane album.

"Journey" is easier on the ear definitely. I love both albums.

The Sepia Tone reissues of the Warner albums are cheap and easy to find, though I'd only recommend ETERNITY (the latin psych trip of "Los Caballos" erases all notions of wooly new ageisms) and the live trio date, TRANSFIGURATION. I still consider Alice to be the only other who could match Larry Young's godliness on the organ.

Vahid, i ended up picking up that Joe Henderson record and it sounded great, but i think i've just not been in a jazz mood lately and only listened to it twice :(

The first half is okay...the syndrums aren't very noticeable, it's just sounds like tabla and those lower pitch-bendy Indian drums whose name I don't know. She does play some questionable synthesizer on a few songs, but the cool Wurlitzer playing on other songs makes up for it.

The second half picks up a lot. 'Leo' is like Interstellar Space except with Alice, Ravi, and deJohnette, sleigh bells and all. Crescent is really nice too, as are the two duets (Alice with Charlie Haden, whom I always love hearing, and Alice on organ with an Indian choir).

And, concurrent with its release, Huntington Ashram Monastery and Lord of Lords are both out on CD (in Japan, that is)

The only thing I don't get is the need to end with a track of Sai bhajan chanting. I'd visit my parents' friends on weekends if I wanted to hear that. But, whatever, I guess it has meaning for her.

impulse should try to get the rights to her entire back catalogue (or cut in the other labels a little)and put out a complete alice box. that would be a great release.

I personally *prefer* her more mystical, string-laden music. I think it's absolutely beautiful and unique. In fact, the only song I really like on Transcendence is "Prema"---and it's mostly due to the beautiful string arrangement.

"Lord of Lords" also has some great pieces, like her rendition of Stravinsky's "Firebird," and the beautiful, joyous "Going Home."

thank you.

I'm also sorry for your loss, stirmonster. Whenever I hear "Galaxy In Turiya" I think to myself, "I want this played at my funeral." Glad to know there are others on the same wavelength.

I wrote about her final studio album, Translinear Light, which turns 20 this weekend.

While researching the piece I was astonished to discover that the New York Times didn't review her or write about her once during her 1970s heyday! The first time she was interviewed was in 1977; I include a screenshot of the article in the piece.

!

The museum where I work is doing an Alice Coltrane exhibition in the spring

https://hammer.ucla.edu/exhibitions/2025/alice-coltrane-monument-eternal

I'd be fascinated to understand who her audience was at the time, what her visibility was. I get the sense she was shunned by the jazz critics and cognoscenti, but I don't know to what extent that is an after-the-fact narrative. This early post-John footage is pretty thrilling. By the time she does Marian McPartland's Piano Jazz in the late 70s, you get the sense that she's resigned herself to having completed her career as a professional musician who releases albums on 'big' labels. I'm so intrigued as to how she felt about all this - was she disappointed? Was she frustrated? Or was her eye elsewhere, on her spiritual life?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA_Ae-rc6Ws

I was literally just listening to Illuminations for the first time when this thread popped up

"I get the sense she was shunned by the jazz critics and cognoscenti, but I don't know to what extent that is an after-the-fact narrative"

I went back and looked at the Downbeat Reviews of her albums at then. I would say she got fairly mixed reviews. Downbeat gave Ptah El Daoud 3/5, Journey to Satchidannada 4/5, Universal Consciousness 5/5, World Galaxy 2.5/5, but then gave Illuminations 4/5. Here's the links if you like reading old Downbeat.

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/DownBeat/70s/71/Downbeat-1971-01-07.pdf
https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/DownBeat/70s/71/Downbeat-1971-05-27.pdf
https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/DownBeat/70s/72/Downbeat-1972-02-03.pdf
https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/DownBeat/70s/72/Downbeat-1972-05-25.pdf
https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/DownBeat/70s/74/DB%201974-12-05.pdf

thank you bbq!

Thanks for those links! Pretty fascinating stuff.

"Riley is subdued and seems like he wants to die" - damn, harsh

Seems like that reviewer wasn't familiar with Ben Riley! I mean, the dude was a timekeeping machine — listen to him on Monk's Columbia albums.

So much wild shit in those old Downbeats...blindfold test with 17 year old Shuggie Otis and his dad, "Weather Report searching for vocalist", and of course so many controversial opinions...

Alice’s work, and Pharoah Sanders’, is a huge blind spot for me considering how greedily I consume anything John Coltrane-related.

I do own and enjoy Universal Consciousness but that was mainly due to my Ornette Coleman completism.

you have some real treats in store! Journey is my fave.

Recommendations, in order:

Journey in Satchidananda (an easy entry point)
Lord Of Lords (I just love this one; she plays Stravinsky's "The Firebird" and it rules)
Ptah, The El Daoud (another easy entry point)
The Carnegie Hall Concert (extended spiritual free jazz blowouts)
Eternity (if nothing else, listen to "Om Supreme," which is genuinely weird and scary "the cult leader sings" stuff)
Illuminations (the collaboration with Carlos Santana)
Transcendence
Universal Consciousness (strings!)
World Galaxy (more strings!)
Huntington Ashram Monastery (it's not *bad*, but it's "just" a piano trio record)
Radha-Krsna Nama Sankirtana
Translinear Light
Transfiguration (a double live album, strictly for the hardcore)

journey would have been on the top of my list for the longest time, and maybe still is, but since i'm feeling reckless today i'm going with

ptah
world
journey
turiya sings
lord
huntington
carnegie
universal
translinear light
transcendence
illuminiations

not sure i've listened to eternity, i definitely will revisit!

Also: Spiritual Eternal---The Complete Warner Bros. Studio Recordings.

xp I looked at the rest of the Downbeat album reviews from the 70s. This is where the critics seemed to turn on her. Eternity 3/5, Radha Krsna Nama Sankrita 0/5, and Transcendence 3/5

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/DownBeat/70s/76/DB-1976-11-04.pdf
https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/DownBeat/70s/77/DB-1977-07-14.pdf
https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/DownBeat/70s/78/Down-Beat-1978-04-06.pdf

In the ok review of Eternity the reviewer is taking shots at her. He writes "Although for some critics Alice is a spoiler (she certainly has never demonstrated the capacity for organic creativity that John did)" and later "With a little more musical clarity and less metaphysical obscurity Alice could become a respectable force in 70s jazz, rather than merely a respected courier of a proud surname. Then in the review for Radha Krsna they just come out and say it "If Alice had been the wife of a Detroit autoworker she would obviously be a nonentity"

Downbeat writers seemed genuinely upset that she had the last name Coltrane. One interesting thing about browsing through 70's Downbeat is seeing how much they talk about John Coltrane. Which is ok because John Coltrane is amazing. But in 1978 the had a whole issue about John Coltrane and never reviewed Alice's 1978 record Transfiguration (or at least i couldn't find it).

I think the reviews in this later period of Alice, which i really love, seemed to shape the idea that critics hated her.

Listening to Ptah again today and the only jazz crime that Ben Riley is guilty of is not being Elvin Jones (or Jack DeJohnette, or...). Which I get, he sounds more traditional over Coltrane-esque vamps and keeps a light touch. More supportive than upfront, and simmering rather than boiling, which is also great and I think fits the mood here.

Thanks for the guide, all. Lord of Lords I struggle with.

ben riley is a fantastic drummer

Don't get me wrong, I love Ben Riley. But I think of him as sort of slick (in the best way) and thoughtful, very different from the burning volcano of Elvin.

wasn't saying it in a confrontational way, i get what you're saying.

also, i too love Lord of Lords.

@ boring, i would say start with Journey and Ptah for Alice and also seek out the comp on Luaka Bop, Ecstatic Music, to get a taste for the '80s and '90s post-major label releases. Huntington Ashram Monastery is another favorite of time.

Huntington Ashram Monastery is another favorite of time.

same, and that reminds me of one big one (to me) missing on unperson's list: a monastic trio, one of her very best

yeah I mean you can't go wrong with any of the Impulse albums

I forgot about A Monastic Trio. It's pretty good; I just think her music demands more than three people.

seek out the sampler on Luaka Bop

a youtube of an ashram tape + World Galaxy is what made it all click for me

...I think because the tape was so divorced from jazz, and then World holding the earlier roots of that symphonic drone, I was able to hear what her mind distinctly brought to more standard instrumentation.

watching Eternity's Pillar on criterion and this is some straight-up David Lynch stuff.

wow. checking out an episode on youtube

what is that?

Throughout the mid-1980s, viewers tuning in late at night to Los Angeles’s KTTV Channel 11 could catch a broadcast unlike any other: ETERNITY’S PILLAR, a journey through the astral plane created and hosted by jazz visionary and spiritual guru Alice Coltrane Turiyasangitananda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3MkhsePVJE

oh wow

Funny how the temperament has changed back in the early 90s these vids were held up as prime examples of her as a "non-serious" musician

Holy shit.

i am honored to be able to see this. i had an old hippie coworker in my record store employee daze who had fun recollections of watching it in its initial run while indulging in psychedelics. he didn't have any sort of real appreciation for it beyond "looool triiiippppyyy" so it's really cool to see it unbiased. thank you for posting.

got to see Ravi Coltrane play a tribute to his mother last night in Berkeley with Brandee Younger on harp. Not sure how often he does this but I recommend seeing them if you get a chance. I think the rap on Ravi is that he is a 'pretty' player, technically great, but missing the element-pushing that his father or Pharoah Sanders excelled at, which is certainly true but in this context it is not really a problem.

element-push was meant to be 'envelope pushing' apologies

some asshole put Turiya and Ramakrishna in a Victoria's Secret ad

it's weirdly become kind of a streaming hit

Adam Schatz has a nice piece about her in the NYRB. He mentioned a duet with Charlie Haden ("For Turiya" on his album of duets Closeness) that I've never heard before and if you're in the same boat, seek it out immediately

Co-sign that. Incredible track. Makes me weep if it catches me off guard.

I've been listening to The Elements a lot recently, her album with Joe Henderson. Beautiful stuff and good for autumn.

Closeness rules

yeah I'm on the Paul Motian track now and it's super weird and cool

I should listen to Elements again, it's been a long time

Not AC related but talk of Closeness always makes me think of Soapsuds, Soapsuds Ornette and Haden's great duo lp from around the same time

ok i was not expecting the record to start with a take on the "mary hartman, mary hartman" theme

my god this is witchcraft