Detroit - the cradle of civilization?

The sheer desolation/emptiness of the city in recent years has, in some ways, allowed it to live off on its own culturally and foster large local scenes that develop before they are digested naturally (at least, until lately, current neo-garage, first two waves of techno and ICP/Kid Rock all were).

Don't know how much racial tension had to do w/it except to, possibly, create curiousity from a "distance" in the opposite culture, explored through music (belleville three and kraftwerk; kid rock and ICP (but not the non-suburban Eminem) and hip-hop; madonna and disco; motown builders and white audiences). Hmm, possibly? A shite point that has to be cut short before it is better thought-out so I can skip out of work to see Beta Band and Radiohead. Cheers!

Also to add (and Latino!): Flint's ? and the Mysterians of "96 Tears" fame

(also, "opposite" culture to describe black v. white is a terribly poor statement, a casualty of a lack of time). OK, I'm off.

the tragedy of detroit - the transformation from its early promise of fulfillment of the american dream (plentiful jobs with good wages, cars culture, integration, strong unions, etc.) to the american nightmare (Motor City into Murder City, ghettoes, racial tension, unemployment, the death of downtown/suburban sprawl) and the reflection of this in its music scenes is what I find so fascinating.

I read a quote from a city official to the effect of, "everything that happens to Detroit happens to the rest of America 10 yrs. later." I always thought that might have some truth to it on a lot of levels.

Mojo had a major impact on me as a youth. Half the time, I didn't have the slightest clue what he was playing, but it all sounded great and bizarre and so did his voice. Despite his presence on a big station, I'd say he was experimental compared to his peers. I doubt anyone else was playing sequences like Talking Heads/ side two of Dirty Mind/ Cybotron/ Leon Ware. And I doubt any other stations in the Midwest -- save for Chicago's WBMX, perhaps -- were hosting DJ battles in 1985.

There's racial tension in Detroit just as there is anywhere else in the US. And most people overlook that there was slavery here a long time ago just as there was in the South. The recent census report showed that Detroit is 'more black' than ever, thanks to whites moving to Farmington Hills or Bloomfield Hills or Royal Oak or Flint (now there's a town with the deck stacked against it). But tons of those white people came back to Detroit last weekend to celebrate the city's 300th birthday! Apparently the city is on an upswing. It does show to a certain extent.

The racial divide seems to be a little more blurred in some of the suburbs, like Ypsilanti. In fact, if you were to add up all the 'minorities' of my graduating high school class, they'd probably outnumber whites. But then you can be much closer to Detroit proper -- like Harper Woods, for instance -- and talk to long-time residents who worry about blacks moving into their neighborhood.

You have all failed to mention Bob Seger. And Sponge.

I haven't been to Detroit since probably the late 80s, and I imagine it's bounced back a bit since then. The downtown was completely empty, like everyone left overnight. Blocks and blocks of boarded-up buildings.

It'll be interesting to now to see what happens w/ Detroit & hip-hop, now that it's getting exposure. Always a mystery why it never clicked (outside of electro, I guess, but that was more of a cult thing.) Who'd have though in 1985 that New Oreleans would be seen as more of a hip-hop town than Detroit?

Funny, I was always taught from kindergarten through high school that Detroit was 'a good city' for having nothing to do with slavery -- the Underground Railroad, what have you. But looking into the matter later on, I soon realized that I could hardly drive down a Detroit or suburban Detroit street that wasn't named after someone who once owned slaves. There's a Rosa Parks Blvd., but somehow no one has taken the time to rename Joseph Campau or (Lewis) Cass, which are both taken from the names of big deal slave traders.

On a more positive note, a ton of BMX mixes exist at http://deephousepage.com/mixes12.htm

I haven't seen (m)any Mojo-related files around, but I'm not particularly resourceful. Anyone, anyone?

Hey, so nice of you to so nicely pigeonhole so many areas as well as so many different groups of people. I was thinking of contributing something to this thread seeing how I actually live in the area, but frankly I'm too angry/disgusted now.

I think the reason that so much music comes out of Detroit is the fact that people around here need an escape and there is enough wealth for people to be able to channel that into music. I think the thread that runs through all Detroit music is that it represents the dreams and aspirations of the people who are living in a region that the rest of the world snubs their nose at because it is suposedly the biggest dystopian-post-industrial-apocalyptic-shithole in the first world.

Detroit is a raw and nasty working town and it likes to party. That is the thread that runs through everything from Real Cool Time by the Stooges, Goin' To A Go Go by Smokey Robinson, to Jupiter Jazz by Underground Resistance. It might not be nice or pretty, but we are going to have a good-ass time. and the rest of the world is going to pick up on it and bite it because they know how good it feels.

The other side of it is that we do not have a strong corporate culture industry here like NYC, Chicago, Nashville or LA. That is probably the biggest thing that Detroit music has going for it, it does not have to live in the shadow of the corporate record industry. There are two types of Detroit music, they music that is made by us for us, and then there is the export bullshit that we sell to everybody else. (Garage Rock, Detroit Bass and Techno fall into the former, and Kid Rock and Ted Nugent fall into the latter catagory. You decide which is better.)

Like another poster said, we have to make our own fun here. Which means that we make electronic music or play in rock bands, promote our own gigs or club nights, run lables and just hang out with the music people that we have been hanging around for the last decade or so. It is not about becomming famous or getting rich, it is just about people doing their own thing just for the sake of doing it. I hate to use this cliche, but there are a lot of people around here keeping it real. It is not about the trappings of the music industry, it is about making the best music that you can simply for the sake of good music.

I sure Nick Momus could have summed it up somewhat more eloquently. The bottom line is that it is the culture and general atmosphere that makes Detroit music what it is. You could go into economics, political history..ect. but it is just about the way people are around here. IIt is the attitude and outlook of Detroit'ers that make it what it is.

re: "fishy" garage, I agree about the fishy odour rising from The White Stripes. What is it exactly that makes the danger signs go off? I like a few songs a lot, but they don't live up the hype.

re: ? & the mysterians. aren't they from Saginaw? Don't know why this matters to me, but I like the name Saginaw.

apologies to anyone from Detroit who was offended by my simplistic analysis of the city's history. It's an outsider's perspective and probably buys into a lot of myths about the city.

AMG has them down as Flint residents. Someone's trying to claim something that doesn't belong to them. Flint has Michael Moore and Mateen Cleaves; give 'em to Saginaw, I say.

Madonna was born in Bay City, btw.

"Lead singer Question Mark, whose real name was actually Rudy Martinez, was born in Mexico in 1945 and raised in Saginaw, Michigan. One report cites that the band in it's earliest from began in Corpus Chritsi, Texas and migrated to it's home in Michigan. Not knowing how true this statement to be, we pick up on their story after they became centered in Michigan. The group was originally formed under a different name in Saginaw and consisted of Frank Rodriguez, Jr. on keyboards, Larry Borjas on guitar, drummer Robert Martinez, and Bobby Balderrama. They started to play in Adrian, Michigan around 1964. Group members Larry Borjas and Robert Martinez were also original members of the band but they were drafted into the US Army and were on active duty in Germany when the first album was recorded.; they were replaced by Eddie Serrato and bass player Frank Lugo.

Now centered out of the Flint, Michigan and the Valley area, ? and the mysterians had been playing out for a while. Things began to really pick up for them when the played a song titled "96 Tears" at the local teen hot spot Mt. Holly. The group had originally called the song "69 Tears," but had decided to change its name to "96 Tears" due to concerns that if they recorded the number under the original title they could risk losing radio air play...."

Now maybe an AMG staffer can name some great music to come out of Big Rapids. Extra credit for naming my old band.

http://metrotimes.com/culture/the-last-song-1.1070954

A little store in the inner city often has a strong relationship with the neighborhood it's in, especially in an area where most of the businesses have closed. Those living in the blocks around it will make a point of shopping there to keep that one alive. A smart store owner knows this and returns the favor.

That's why Esaw would organize customer appreciation block parties with bands, food and games on blocked-off streets. It's why he's taken folks from the neighborhood on bus trips to Cedar Point, with new CDs playing on the stereo the whole way down there. And it's the reason he handed out $1,000 scholarships every year to promising high school students in the city. He'd have them write an essay on a topic like what they'd do if they were president. "We'd sit up at night going through, reading them all," Esaw says.

"It was never about having a record store. We knew that through having a record store, and the music, that we could get kids to come in and talk to us and maybe we could be able to help them do something. We always wanted to do something where we could give something back."

Gestures like these made the neighbors fiercely loyal to Pearl's. Even among the area's thugs, word was to leave this store alone, which sat vulnerable with no bulletproof glass, no anti-theft door alarms, no iron bars on its big windows.

"People in the neighborhood, guys in the neighborhood, the ones that kind of run the neighborhood, they tell everybody, 'Don't mess with Pearl's,' and that all came from a respect thing for all that we did. You never see people come in here with a smoke, you never see someone come in with a drink."

Once, the store got robbed by an armed gunman. When the neighbors heard what happened, they told Esaw they'd handle it.

"Just to tell you about the neighborhood, two days after we got robbed — they'd taken some cassettes and stuff — they put the money in a cassette with a note saying, 'Sorry we robbed you,' and put it back in the mail chute. I called the police and they said they'd never seen nothing like that before."

Wonderful story -- thanks for that, and such a bummer about the store's fate.

Always sad to see another one of those go. At first I thought it was People's Records in the article and I was going to be really sad, I was just there a few months ago.

Detroit radio is pretty cool!

Detroit radio is fantastic! On my last trip to Ann Arbor I got to hear a stretch that included Gil-Scott Heron, Cameo, Whodini, Jazmine Sullivan, and Isley Brothers. So great.

No mention of Alice Cooper and his less talented but more business minded naughty musical cousins in Kiss?

Considering Kiss are from New York, no.