Where Is The Line Drawn Between Hard Rock/Metal/Hardcore?

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Just wondered where Hard Rock or Hardcore bands crossed over to Metal (or vice versa) and should these genres be kept 'pure' or is combining other influences a good thing? Whats the best examples, and can you mantain credibility in your previous genre if say you start as a hardcore band and become metal (Corrosion Of Conformity for example).
Any good bands/albums who have crossed over in this way please recommend here.

― Isaac, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc500/c503/c503697u32b.jpg

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyone?

― Isaac, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

The line falls somewhere between Anthrax and MOD, I think

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Most hardcore bands that attempt metal (particularly newer ones like Earth Crisis and Hatebreed) suck suck suck. But a few acts did it well in the 80s. DRI's Dealing With It was recently reissued on CD with a shitload of bonus tracks, and that's probably the single greatest hardcore/metal crossover album ever made, by anyone. Second and third place go to the Cro-Mags' Age Of Quarrel and Sick Of It All's Blood, Sweat And No Tears (which adds an additional layer of crossoveration by featuring a cameo from KRS-ONE).

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I always thought DRI, the Cro-Mags, and Sick of it All sounded like generic morons. None of them came up with an original idea in their career, as far as I could tell. Hardcore was metal crossover from the BEGINNING -- from Black Flag and the Angry Samoans and Flipper and Negative Approach (or I guess Rudimentary Peni and Anti-Nowhere League in England) in 1981-82, if not from the Necros and Germs a few years before that. And haven't you ever heard, like, Die Kreuzen or Void, Phil? Or aren't those crossover enough? And if not, why not?

― chuck, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

As for "Hard Rock bands crossing over to Metal," I dunno -- I'd say Blue Cheer or Iron Butterfly or Steppenwolf or the Sonics or Kinks or Who or Link Wray and his Wraymen or somebody. And no, these genres should never stay pure; that'd be boring. But I believe there have already been a few hundred threads on this topic. You should read 'em.

― chuck, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

And why would you wanna "maintain credibility" in ANY genre?? I mean, what the hell does "credibility" have to do with music being GOOD???

― chuck, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

To some bands it does. They want to take their old fanbase with them. Don't know if this always happens though.
I thought Bad Brains may have been one of the 1st bands to crossover from hardcore to metal.

― Isaac, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

the style of mullet vs shaved heads?

― kephm, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

check out the band 'Isis'

― kephm, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

do not check out 'Cave In' they were a hardcore/zeppelin band that lost it when they started getting hyped/signed/whatever

― kephm, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

What?
Cave In were a effin' stupid hardcore band with only
slight talent, then they released a badass album that
sounded like metal radiohead, then they got signed
and released a new
album that has slight ties to nu-metal but overall
they haven't changed their sound much
they are badass

and they have clean vocals.

really, though, clean vocals are the way to go. I
don't care if you occasionally shriek for emphasis, all
the great singers have done it, but any singer that
primarily shrieks deserves to be shot.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

search: cave in, 1995/96
old man gloom (brodsky side project)

― kephm, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

wrong.
i am not even going to reply, cause i am more a friend of the band than a fan.

search: cave in, 1995/96
old man gloom (mass metal/ambient recording project that scofield, brodsky have been a part of)

― kephm, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I like every single band mentioned on this thread so far. I think I call them all rock music.But that would be in my head, cuz i honestly can't remember the last time I had to call anybody anything out loud to someone. I just tell people that something rocks! They get my drift.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

COC, The Descendents, Anthrax, MOD, Earth Crisis, Hatebreed, DRI, Cro Mags, Sick Of It All, KRS-1, Black Flag, Angry Samoans, Flipper, Negative Approach, Rudimentary Peni, Anti Nowhere League, Necros, Germs, Die Kreuzen, Void, Blue Cheer, Iron Butterfly, Steppenwolf, Sonics, The Kinks, THe Who, Link Wray & His Wraymen, Bad Brains, Isis, Cave In, Led Zeppelin, Radiohead, and Old Man Gloom all have some rocking tunes.You should check them out, Isaac.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 9 July 2003 23:36 (twenty-two years ago)

helmet too

― maura (maura), Thursday, 10 July 2003 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

>And haven't you ever heard, like, Die Kreuzen or Void, Phil?

I haven't, actually. Should I bother?

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 10 July 2003 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

>>Should I bother?<<

Only if you think DRI or the Cro-mags (or even Dillinger Escape Plan or Meshuggah or Converge or Zao, for that matter) were doing something new, and you feel like putting your hypothesis to the test.

― chuck, Thursday, 10 July 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not sure DRI or the Cro-Mags were doing anything new, but they were doing what they were doing very well. I got over Dillinger really fast, and never liked Converge. I still like Meshuggah.

Have you learned to appreciate the greatness of Strapping Young Lad yet?

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 10 July 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I like their NAME, I guess. It's great! (Though it keeps making me wish they were an Accept or Leather Nun or Turbonegro or Skatt Brothers spinoff band, I have to admit.) I don't really understand what's supposed to be good about them otherwise, though. They don't even sound very strapping, or young, or laddish, far as I can see.

― chuck, Thursday, 10 July 2003 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Have you learned to appreciate the greatness of Strapping Young Lad yet?

No.

The new Rubber City Rebels is right on the hinge of hard rock
and metal. Which is probably where they always wanted to be,
taking about 25 years to get there.

Or maybe they wanted to be a boogie band and got bored with it,
since they cover "Paper Plane."

― George Smith, Thursday, 10 July 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

the line between hardcore, metal, and hardcore can be best observed not by the music, but by observing the crowd.

-if the pit opens up after two beats and moves in a clockwise direction, then it's a metal crowd.

-if the pit opens up and moves in a counter-clockwise direction, then it's obviously punk... so it's hardcore.

-lastly, hard rock doesn't have pits. it has lighters, head banging, and boobies. lot's of wonderful boobies.

― msp, Thursday, 10 July 2003 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

um...but in the southern hemisphere, does it work the opposite way, y'know like how the water goes the wrong way down the sink in New Zealand?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 11 July 2003 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

what's the difference?

easy -- hair length.

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Friday, 11 July 2003 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Surely the difference in hair length argument disappeared 10 years ago when Phil Anselmo inspired all the metallers to CUT THEIR HAIR!

― Gerald, Saturday, 12 July 2003 10:27 (twenty-two years ago)

'Obsessed' maybe? Or Motorhead if you think about it.

― Grant, Saturday, 12 July 2003 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

But Pantera is THE commercial success story of the hardcore/metal hybridization!

Also, bald drummers have always been a pleasantly cliched part of metal.

― Siegbran (eofor), Saturday, 12 July 2003 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

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