Is this the breakthrough of undie whiteboy rap?

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Sole's first lines on 'Selling Live Water'. Fucking clever if you ask me:

"Cops ain't shit to me/ Jobs ain't nothing but free pens and long distance calls/ Thought I had it all/ The god got birth control/ The white man's the fucking devil/ I wanted to be black at age 14/ So when they say I don't respect the culture/ Truth is I only rap 'cause I ain't smart enough to write a book".

― Jay K (Jay K), Thursday, 10 July 2003 10:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I like it when rappers rhyme.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 10 July 2003 12:06 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, and i like it when they don't. isn't that a rather, uhm, limited approach to rap or poetry in general?

― Jay K (Jay K), Thursday, 10 July 2003 12:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Rhyming > not rhyming.

― adam (adam), Thursday, 10 July 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I was just being silly 'bout the rhyming. Although not entirely. FWIW I like Sole & Doseone & Anticon pretty well. But not as much as Cee-Lo.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 10 July 2003 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

fair enough. but is it just me, or do these lines sound like one of these rare moments that define a scene and skyrockets it (as far as überintellectual and countercultural whiteboy rap can be skyrocketed).

― Jay K (Jay K), Thursday, 10 July 2003 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

couldn't it be a Bubba Sparxxxxx lyric tho?

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 10 July 2003 13:34 (twenty-two years ago)

he ain't that bright - or bold...

― Jay K (Jay K), Thursday, 10 July 2003 13:34 (twenty-two years ago)

1.) If you're talking about an aesthetic breakthrough, I always thought of "Stepfather Factory" by El-P as the big moment: it connected the pervasive surreal/sci-fi leanings of the whiteboy undie scene with its other great metatheme: the specific contours of post-nuclear family middle-class despair.

2.) If you're talking about an aesthetic and commercial breakthrough, then didn't some kid from Detroit blow the backpacker aesthetic up huge with his first record?

― Ess, Thursday, 10 July 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha the idea that bubba sparxxx isn't as funny as anticon is um funny

i don't think esham has ever had a national hit

oh erm uh

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 10 July 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I just realized I used the word "metatheme" on two threads in two days. Clearly, I am a dangerous maniac and must be kept off the streets.

― Ess, Thursday, 10 July 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah it's true, I also do get praise from the other side of the tracks
You know, that dark days part of town, when they intentionally hide the blacks
Ain't got no reply to that, I said I'm sorry if I'm to blame
I tried like hell to sooth your soul by planting the facts inside your brain
I never once lied to the game, the acceptance of not one black dude
It's just Bubba that country fucker smoking swags and eating snack foods
Now every time they ask you, “why you live the way you choose too?”
Say cause Bubba set you right, the only one they loved, knew you
That leaves you with no excuse to settle with what they offer
He try to pay you the slave wagers, play that role, and tell them naw, sir
I probably won't even falter if you dismiss me as the demon
It is true, I am not you, my skin's the tone of piss and semen
But if we fight this evening, I assure you, we'll both bleed red
And it'll take your whole slum and all your guns to leave me dead
Plus all that blood we shed what do nothin' but serve their purpose
So let's unite these bright nights and dark days, they'll see you nervous

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 10 July 2003 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I [heart] Bubba's new video for "Deliverance", which appropriates O Brother Where Art Thou lock, stock and barrell -- with Timbaland as Tommy Johnson, the blues singer they pick up on the road.

― Ess, Thursday, 10 July 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Holy shit. Where do those Bubba lyrics come from?

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Thursday, 10 July 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

the title track from the first album

if you meant literally, um, some website from new zealand

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 10 July 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i even got the underground shit you did with skam / i got a room full of your posters and your pictures, man / i like the shit you did with rawkus too, that shit was fat
http://www.thelyricarchive.com/images/eminem.jpg

― trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 10 July 2003 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

eminem - "kim (gescom remix)"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 10 July 2003 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

i cant find a picture of the three six five 12 inch online : (

― trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 10 July 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

but if anyone can tell me how the sentiments in that wack sole lyric above are in any way difft from what ems been saying since abt 96 or so id be astonished

― trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 10 July 2003 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

c'mon trife, it's an entirely different ball game and you know it. this guy is making distinctly white hip hop in text and sound (em's sound is still predominantly 'black'), giving love to the music he grew up with but transforming it completely, making music explicitly from a white, middle class perspective: doing scrapyard white art-noise and rhyming about self hate and other labyrinthic stuff.
the ethos is much whiter, so to say, much less fixated on commercial succes, and much more highbrow (that is just a fact, not a quality in itself, of course).

― Jay K (Jay K), Saturday, 12 July 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

so if it's so "white, middle class, and highbrow", what makes it hip-hop?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 12 July 2003 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

complicating matters: the streets

― jess (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 12 July 2003 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

highbrow. haha.

― chaki (chaki), Saturday, 12 July 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont see whats so 'fucking clever' about that sole line, especially compared to the bubba verse. i mean "my skin tone's the colour of piss and semen/but if we fight this evening, i assure we'll both bleed red" is heavy. and it rhymes

― sean g, Saturday, 12 July 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I had wary thoughts about this thread but if it leads to more insults thrown Sole-wards I s'pose I'm cool with it

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 12 July 2003 19:39 (twenty-two years ago)

so if it's so "white, middle class, and highbrow", what makes it hip-hop?

Jess = the Wynton Marsalis of hip hop

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Saturday, 12 July 2003 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

the entire rationale behind this thread is really depressing, and I like the Sole album

― M Matos (M Matos), Saturday, 12 July 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

(note "s'pose")
(also note that I have not heard SLW and in fact the only thing I know Sole has done is "Dear Elpee")
(note, finally, that recording an El-P dis track will not endear you to me no matter what you do as a followup)

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 12 July 2003 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

El-P is great, but Anticon is way more interesting ... and that Bubba Line is pretty cliché, wouldn't you say?

― Jay K (Jay K), Monday, 14 July 2003 08:21 (twenty-two years ago)

jay k you havent actually said HOW exactly sole is saying anything that eminem or bubba havent said a million times except for saying it awkwardly over undanceable indie beats which doesnt mean youre actually saying something different!!

― trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 July 2003 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah...differently != different

― oops (Oops), Monday, 14 July 2003 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

oh come on the steez is near identical just cuz anticon cant rap doesnt mean theyre more revolutionizing 'whiteness' in hiphop unless youre a racist

― trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 July 2003 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

i was agreeing w/you!

― oops (Oops), Monday, 14 July 2003 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry i thought you were being sarcastic!!! i still keep thinking youre into anticon and stuff even though ive been trying to remember to stop since you repped for big l on some other thread

― trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 July 2003 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

not that im sayin anticon and big l are mutually exclusive but they certainly should be

― trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 July 2003 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Me? Sarcastic? Nevah

(FYI: my top 5 mcs: Big L, Kane, Kool G, Nas, Puba)(i know i left someone out who should be in there)

― oops (Oops), Monday, 14 July 2003 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

"cops ain't shit to me"

yeah that's why you flick your cigarettes at them when you walk past, right, knuckle-head?

"jobs ain't nothin but free pens and long-distance calls"

okay this is funny but it's not clever, and king missile did it first, and waaaay funnier. king missile - now THAT's undie white-boy rap!!

"thought i had it all"

oh you did, you did, callin all over the world, non-working numbers in taiwan, your moms in detroit, your ex-girlfriend at howard.... the world was your phone directory and you wrote little post-it notes with free pens. but you got a big head, didn't you? you started rapping to your buds on the phone for hours at a time, stupid shit like "jobs ain't nothin but free pens and long-distance calls" OUT LOUD where they could HEAR YOU

"the god got birth control"

this is deep, he's saying the age of miracles is over

"the white man's the fuckin devil"

awww

"i wanted to be black at age 14"

you didn't know about michael jackson until you were FOURTEEN???! and you NEVER GREW OUT OF IT??

"so when they say I don't respect the culture / truth is i only rap 'cause I ain't smart enough to write a book"

i mean what can you say?? does this mean something extra that i don't get, because on the face of it, it's the stupidest single rhyme in the history of rap

the sparxx verse is grate

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 July 2003 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Tracer I kiss you

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 14 July 2003 23:03 (twenty-two years ago)

did anyone on ilm NOT want to be black when they were fourteen??

― trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 July 2003 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't even know if I wanted to be human when I was fourteen.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 July 2003 23:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never wanted to be black. At 14 I wanted to be an alternative rocker.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 14 July 2003 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

The Sparxx lyric beats the shit out of the Sole lyric, and not just because it rhymes, altho that's definitely a plus. I don't see how this could be considered some kind of breakthrough unless it was a) a COMMERCIAL breakthrough (which it certainly isn't - there still isn't anyone really paying attention to this stuff in mainstream hip-hop, and it sure isn't gonna rock any house parties) or b) some sort of earth-shaking lyrical tack that no one's ever taken before, and it definitely isn't that either. White rapper in endless quest for "authenticity"/"blacknuss" to thread.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 14 July 2003 23:21 (twenty-two years ago)

straight off the dome!!!

"Cops ain't shit to me

'im the cream of the crop i rise to the top / NEVER EAT A PIG CUZ A PIG IS A COP!!!' white peoples anthem!!!

Jobs ain't nothing but free pens and long distance calls/

'they said kevin when you grow up you gonna work with a lot of white people think theyre black' - mc serch, skit from cactus album

Thought I had it all/ The god got birth control/

'i like happy things, im really calm and peaceful / i like birds, bees, i like people, i like funny things that make me happy and gleeful' - eminem, im shady

The white man's the fucking devil/

'im white just by chance but im country by gods graces / nowadays i find myself doin laundry in odd places' bubba sparxx, ruff ryders vol 3

I wanted to be black at age 14/ So when they say I don't respect the culture/ Truth is I only rap 'cause I ain't smart enough to write a book"

'an angry teenager nothin can change me back / gangsta rap made me act like a maniac / i was boostin so influenced by music i used it / as an excuse to do shit ooh i was stupid / i made my first million and counted it / now look at a fuckin drop out that quits / stupid as shit rich as fuck and proud of it' eminem, d12 - revelation

and theres literally DOZENS of better em verses exactly like that i just picked that one cuz i like the last line and i wanted to listen to d12, i think i will start a thread about them now!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 July 2003 23:36 (twenty-two years ago)

the serch line is a sole dis i think

― trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 July 2003 23:37 (twenty-two years ago)

the bit from im shady has nothing to do with the anticon line i just think its funny to imagine em rapping their lame greeting card philosophy in his sarcastic voice

― trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 July 2003 23:40 (twenty-two years ago)

also thank you for making me dig out JUMP AROUND (its on funk flex three i dont actually own a house of pain record)

― trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 July 2003 23:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't decide who's more boring: Eminem, Sole, or Radiohead...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 14 July 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

it's Radiohead

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 14 July 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Eminem threatened to hit Moby on MTV, believing he was in cahoots with a hand puppet = less boring than Radiohead.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 14 July 2003 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

channel the white shine into myself the prism/
the spectrum is the variety of flavors I'm capable of spittin'/
never quittin'/never lettin' the rhythm stop me from hittin'/
yeah ain't much melanin/in my skin/
that ain't gonna stop me from winnin'/
this prize/open up your third eye/
time for that part of you that assumes shit to die

― nickalicious circa 1997 (nickalicious), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Black fucking Nasty. anything Anticon (lyrically) seems pretty boring in comparison.

― pickles, Tuesday, 15 July 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

What's going on in this thread?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

(rap)
Protection
For Gangs, Clubs
And Nations
Causing Grief In
Human Relations
It's A Turf War
On A Global Scale
I'd Rather Hear Both Sides
Of The Tale
See, It's Not About Races
Just Places
Faces
Where Your Blood
Comes From
Is Where Your Space Is
I've Seen The Bright
Get Duller
I'm Not Going To Spend
My Life Being A Color

(Michael)
Don't Tell Me You Agree With Me
When I Saw You Kicking Dirt In My Eye

But, If
You're Thinkin' About My Baby
It Don't Matter If You're Black Or White

― chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

holy fucking shit! i forgot how anti-anticon ILM is.
i would like to stress that i don't really find a great deal of meaning in having to choose between eminem, bubba and the anticon posse. i find bubba okay and eminem is certainly impossible to overlook, but i just started the thread 'cause i find the sole lyric in question refreshing. sharp, honest, pinpointing white angst, would be-rebelliousness and straight out juvenile racial envy. i don't care if anyone have done this before, he does it in a new and more suburban, middle class kind of way. that's all. music's pretty good, too (but i guess it's too late to turn you guys around at this point).

and shakey: i don't think that the succes criteria for the new pornographers or yo la tengo is to break through to the rock'n'roll mainstream. why should anticon's (or def jux's) be, then? hip hop also has a thriving alternative scene, not everybody wants to wear platinum, y'know.

greetings,

― Jay K (Jay K), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not quite anti-anticon. I particularly like some of their stuff, like cLOUDDEAD and Themselves and some others. With Sole though, it's just his approach; it's as though he's so much more interested in the content of his lyrics that he just throws any notions of how-they-actually-sound-in-the-context-of-music to the wind. I particularly like Doseone, who is sometimes quite similar lyrically (especially in the not-rhyming thing), but the major difference I get between the two is that what Doseone does is a musical thing first and a literary thing second, whereas with Sole it seems more that he's trying to force writing aesthetics into a vaguely "hip-hop" context, like an English major at a mic battle trying to earn an A+ while everyone else is freestyling and enjoying themselves...does that make any sense? I need to quit the coffee BAD.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

(for the rekkid, I like some of his beats though)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 19:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Prince Charming Chazz.*

*this may be satire

― Girolamo Savonarola, Tuesday, 15 July 2003 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

seven months pass...

For one thing, a lot more DoseOne lyrics seem to make sense now, maybe because I'm now even less preoccupied with 'figuring out' what he's talking about.
There is nothing to 'figure out'. Everything Dose writes makes sense in a kind of otherworldly parallel logic. Or it doesn't, in which case I lie back and let the imagery wash over me until I feel the meaning.

― ilikedoseone, Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...

anyone who tries to compare bubba sparxx with sole is a neanderthal. bubba sparx rappin about his skin color isn't as deep as u think. you just don't have the ability to think deep. i bet you can't even decipher what the hell sole is talkin about when he talks about god getting birth control because that message is way to big and comprehensive for you. please go check out more eminem web sites or somethin. remember stick to mainstream, it's like the special ed class for "art"

― Dj= rick, Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

i bet you can't even decipher what the hell sole is talkin about

I bet you're right!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

bubba lyric way upthread -

Plus all that blood we shed what do nothin' but serve their purpose
So let's unite these bright nights and dark days, they'll see you nervous

that's terrrible.

― tk, Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

...when he talks about god getting birth control

Yeah, this is such an original lyrical construct on Sole's part. < /sarcasm>

(ref: Outkast "Gasoline Dreams", Funkadelic "Maggot Brain")

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

king missile - now THAT's undie white-boy rap!!

otm

― M@tt He1ges0n, Friday, 28 September 2007 17:46 (eighteen years ago)

"undie"

― roxymuzak, Friday, 28 September 2007 17:50 (eighteen years ago)

-- Dj= rick, Tuesday, June 8, 2004 10:14 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

― deej, Friday, 28 September 2007 17:53 (eighteen years ago)

it's like the special ed class for "art"

http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGCOVERS/music/cover200/drd900/d995/d99523v64xh.jpg

― M@tt He1ges0n, Friday, 28 September 2007 17:54 (eighteen years ago)

this guy is making distinctly white hip hop in text and sound (em's sound is still predominantly 'black')

uh-oh

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 29 September 2007 22:09 (eighteen years ago)

the lines on the first post of this still read wack as fuck to me too. they don't even rhyme.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Saturday, 29 September 2007 22:33 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.globalhermit.com/ilx/tuomas-sundae.jpg

― kingkongvsgodzilla, Sunday, 30 September 2007 09:18 (eighteen years ago)

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