The new Kraftwerk single is so bad i want to cry.

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So.. i've just heard the newly released Kraftwerk single in it's entirity - and it's one of the most impossibly depressing things i've ever heard.

4 tracks - which turn out to be basically 2 different versions.

On the first track there's a REALLY annoying overloud hihat coming out of the left hand speaker and the bass drum couldn't sound more lifeless if it tried.

Where's the melodies?????? Tour De France 03 consists of 1 basic trancey chord sequence going through the whole track. Where's the bassline?????

Ok.. Maybe it's just me hoping this would be a return to form, but seriously, this could have been done by someone on Fruity loops in a couple of hours..

I've pretty much lost what little hope i had for the forthcoming album..

― jack battery-pack (Jack Battery-Pack), Friday, 11 July 2003 05:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Ralf and Florian were always the token idiots in that band, you know. Bartos and Fluhr were the real talents.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Friday, 11 July 2003 05:27 (twenty-two years ago)

phear our talents

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/allan.icepalace/images/bartie.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/allan.icepalace/images/wolfie.jpg

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 11 July 2003 05:30 (twenty-two years ago)

it's looking grim.

i hear kaarl bartos is playing at the ica soon tho. he does a good best of kraftwerk set too

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Friday, 11 July 2003 05:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Ralf and Florian were always the token idiots in that band, you know. Bartos and Fluhr were the real talents.

Ironically, it was the latter who made Kraftwerk commercial - the whole concept came from Ralf & Florian. I just think what is now seen as 'common' technology has overtaken them,where they were always one step ahead with DIY electronics. I'd be interested to know what Kling Klang actually comprises now...

― Jez (Jez), Friday, 11 July 2003 05:55 (twenty-two years ago)

pro tools

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 11 July 2003 06:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, as Bartos said, if only they'd kept their analogue set-up. How many times has this happened - a studio update, the gear becomes industry standard, suddenly the band or artist loses their special, unique, magic sound - and, aware of the fact, they can't make records with their usual frequency? Kraftwerk, Aphex, Lee Perry...

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Friday, 11 July 2003 07:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Guided by Voices! I didn't much care by then, though

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 11 July 2003 08:04 (twenty-two years ago)

but...we had all this with expo didn't we ?
that was toss-y aswell.

― piscesboy, Friday, 11 July 2003 08:47 (twenty-two years ago)

the break part in 'tour de france 03' sounds like the first part of the main hook from the legitimate version of Shut Up & Dance's 'Raving I'm Raving' - enough to remind me of that every time anyway

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 11 July 2003 09:53 (twenty-two years ago)

They would be ashamed of you if you cried.

― dave q, Friday, 11 July 2003 10:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't wait to hear it. I bet it's great.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 11 July 2003 10:41 (twenty-two years ago)

it is. two chords, simple and clean.
they are both about 55 and people still want them to reinvent the wheel. but not a bike wheel. er....

― joni, Friday, 11 July 2003 10:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Tour de France? Again?

― russ t, Friday, 11 July 2003 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I think when you're 55 you should be just getting to the point where you can really "reinvent the wheel". That's why rockers tend to be such a letdown as they get older -- they don't seem to have the discipline and the drive to continue to challenge themselves. One wouldn't expect a writer or a painter to be unable/unwilling to push his or her creative boundaries as they get older, so why do we accept it from musicians?

Rockers are feeble, for the most part. But I really hope this Kraftwerk is good...

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

ProTools is what ruined Steely Dan's Two Against Nature. Fortunately, they went back to basics for the new one.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 11 July 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

An actual album they had enough confidence in not to halfpromote w/reference to past success would probably be good, and will never happen. I'd LOVE to be wrong.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 11 July 2003 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

It's clean lined but a bit boring. One thing I do like though is the title. It's a song about the Tour De France so they called it "Tour De France", very sensible. If they hadn't wimped out and put 2003 on it it would be perfect.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 11 July 2003 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, maybe it's about this year's Tour De France?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 11 July 2003 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah fair do's. So I like it even more now. Except not the actual sounds that much.

I think the real actual Tour De France was probably more exciting back in 1983 too.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 11 July 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, nice theory about 'reinventing the wheel' but....i cant think of anyone offhand in any artform (art/writing/painting whatever)over 50 who managed this and even if you can name one they are swimming against a very strong current.

― joni, Friday, 11 July 2003 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Grandma Moses

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Friday, 11 July 2003 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Picasso?

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Friday, 11 July 2003 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

If Picasso reinvented the wheel, it would have been square.

― NA. (Nick A.), Friday, 11 July 2003 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I disagree that it's rare to experiment as you get older: Picasso, Henry Miller, Coltrane, Scriabin, Tennessee Williams, Schoenberg, Iris Murdoch, and tons more -- this is twentieth century, off the top of my head -- some of these folks died in their forties but were clearly and decisively pursuing new visions up until their deaths.

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Friday, 11 July 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

(had to google scriabin...who hell he!?!)
as you say most of these people died in their 40s so its difficult to guess what would have happened, where could coltrane have gone next? 'reinventing the wheel' suggests more to me than i think people like henry miller achieved later in life, but then i dont like his later books. ho hum.
i guess with most stuff i really do 'prefer their earlier stuff'.
how indie is that? :)

― joni, Friday, 11 July 2003 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I think only Coltrane and Scriabin died in their forties; but my horse isn't so high that I'm gonna preach -- we'll just happily disagree (and, for the record, I'm not desperately trying to convince myself that life's not over, etc. etc. -- I'm still a relative young 'un).

I don't necessarily prefer later vs. earlier stuff -- I'm just sad that it's the rare older rocker who'll make you sit up and notice.

And as for Miller -- I think he didn't even publish (or even finish!) a single work until he was in his mid-forties, so "later in life" is certainly relative for him.

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Friday, 11 July 2003 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i looked it up, 43 when tropic of cancer was published...the lazy slob!

― joni, Friday, 11 July 2003 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Heh heh -- actually, his earlier life is a pretty inspirational story for losers like me -- he basically just fucked around at a bunch of shitty jobs until he was about forty, then said "fuck it" and went to France with his wife to be a writer.

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Friday, 11 July 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sorry, I've completely derailed this thread.

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Friday, 11 July 2003 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

The order for burn-out/die-out is:

1. athletes
2. rock musicians
3. painters and writers
4. businessmen
5. politicians

― dleone (dleone), Friday, 11 July 2003 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

so where do music journalists fit in?
*ducks*

― joni, Friday, 11 July 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Good Journalists who love music are at .5

Hacks are around a 9 or 10.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Friday, 11 July 2003 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

filmmakers = 2.5 (?)

― Sam J. (samjeff), Friday, 11 July 2003 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

No, no. 3.5 or 4.5.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 11 July 2003 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Are we on the Herzog paradigm or the Frankenheimer scale?

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Friday, 11 July 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

we're working in base-Van Sant

― Sam J. (samjeff), Friday, 11 July 2003 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Slightly less accurate than the Singleton agenda (which sounds like a Robert Ludlum title...).

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Friday, 11 July 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Hurlo's right. Only physicists and mathematicians should be allowed to burn out young. We don't accept it from painters and it wasn't accepted from classical composers either, so why should we accept it from modern musicians? I'm really devastated by what's happened to K'werk. On a happier note, Nurse With Wound keep making challenging music. Who? Google them when you've finished googling Scriabin. He died of a pimple, you know.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Saturday, 12 July 2003 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

this actually gets studied.

(well, ok, with painters)

(but it might be relevant)

― elliott (ebb), Saturday, 12 July 2003 03:22 (twenty-two years ago)

accept/=expect
challenging~=good

― joni, Saturday, 12 July 2003 07:37 (twenty-two years ago)

and why dont i google can and kraftwerk and the beatles while im at it? cos there is no way i'll have heard of any of them of course...

― joni, Saturday, 12 July 2003 07:50 (twenty-two years ago)

More examples of older folks who stayed experimental: Waits, Raymond Scott, Burrows, tons more...

― M. Bellion, Saturday, 12 July 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

The Doors drummer?

― nestmanso (nestmanso), Saturday, 12 July 2003 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Someone post the five-year rule of creative abundance for elektronenrockers, please.

― nestmanso (nestmanso), Saturday, 12 July 2003 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

doesn't that happen a lot though where people who made their best music made it with old wires and tin cans and chewing gum and when they got older and had the money they become infactuated with all the cool shiny tech there is to be had out there. This happened a lot in the late 70's and early 80's with all kinds of electronic folks. They couldn't help it. or even people like cabaret voltaire and the severed heads(2 faves of mine). i think they got tired of being all rough and tumble and got into those cleaner and shinier synth sounds.
although kraftwerk always had tons of cool gear. they were never really that primitive were they? i remember reading that story where the guys in kraftwerk went to new order's studio to see how they had made Blue Monday cuz they thought it was so great and when they saw how primitive and ramshackle their equipment was they couldn't believe it! They knew that there was no way that they could make music like that cuz they were too spoiled. New order are another good example. the more money that they put into stuff the less immediacy their music had for me. i ain't no luddite though. whatever works. ( vangelis and tangerine dream are also good examples of diminishing returns as their computer/synth banks became skyscraper sized)

― scott seward, Saturday, 12 July 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

two weeks pass...

"ok, nice theory about 'reinventing the wheel' but....i cant think of anyone offhand in any artform (art/writing/painting whatever)over 50 who managed this and even if you can name one they are swimming against a very strong current."

Scott Walker was over 50 when he did Tilt. Say what you like about that album, but it certainly pushes the envelope. Gavin Bryars is over 50, he's always interesting. Rautavaara is into his 70s, still doing challenging stuff. Arguably, Beethoven's late violin quartets are his best works. I don't think 50 is any kind of cut-off point.

― Susan (Susan), Friday, 1 August 2003 09:27 (twenty-two years ago)

just think of all those people who had a great first record, and
then things started tailing off until you stopped buying their
records.
it always amuses me when people use the word 'challenging' as if it
were some sort of seal of approval.
aural assault courses do not usually = fun.

― joni, Friday, 1 August 2003 10:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I'm happy to amuse you, joni. Perhaps "challenging" is a bit of a cliché, but sometimes I don't just want to have fun when I listen to music. Sometimes I want something difficult, something which "challenges". The fun stuff is good, but life would be boring if it was all like that.

― Susan (Susan), Friday, 1 August 2003 10:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Being challenged is fun

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 1 August 2003 10:27 (twenty-two years ago)

hey, i'm easily amused.
"challenging" makes me think of being forcefed castor oil, oh the childhood trauma!

― joni, Friday, 1 August 2003 11:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Sounds fun

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 1 August 2003 11:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Stole the album from the office last week. It's the most godawful piece of nothing, a kind of retro early-nineties trance vibe, in a horrible, cheaply produced way, like the theme tune from a mid-morning quiz show, presented by Bob Monkhouse or Paul Daniels. It's very, very bad. So yes -- cry. Then put Miserablism by the Pet Shop Boys on instead.

― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Friday, 1 August 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I pray that album exists

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 1 August 2003 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

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