should recorded music come with instructions as to the correct volume?

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the fact that it doesn't basically demolishes all 19th-century assumptions about the priority of the composer's and/or performer's intentions in the meaning

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean, doesn't it?

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:29 (twenty-two years ago)

(sorry, i've been proof-reading sucky academic texts all morning, i can't write in normal english any more)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:30 (twenty-two years ago)

well doesn't the 'correct volume' change from hi-fi to hi-fi and then to portable CD player?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Roland Barthes to thread.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the 1969 Lennon 'Cold Turkey' came with instructions to 'PLAY LOUD' in 24 point type

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:33 (twenty-two years ago)

yes but what how loud?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:34 (twenty-two years ago)

nirvana 2 thredd

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:37 (twenty-two years ago)

you cd specify in decibels rather than knob setting, julio

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Mind Bomb - The The came with directions (if i remember correctly) to listen to it very loud over headphones at night and alone

no decibel settings tho

― H (Heruy), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

mark, and make sure the room had pretty nice acoustics, a comfortable chair and some high qulity cocaine?

― gaz (gaz), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:41 (twenty-two years ago)

"Play Twice Before Listening"

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Not that that's relevant

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:42 (twenty-two years ago)

some albums do come with listening instructions though. i love good liner notes...

should they come with instructions though? "listen to it however you want" is an implicit instruction in no instructions.

― disco stu (disco stu), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Wait a minute. What was Play Twice Before Listening? I have that record I think.

I like instructions. Even better are things like Medicine, where the album was MASTERED SO HIGH that you have no choice but to listen to it as Brad intended.

There's lots of ambient type music that sounds so much better when played very low, just at the threshold of hearing. E.A.R. should come with instructions to "Play Very Quietly".

― kate (kate), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought the meaning behind most recorded music was time-to-market anyway

― disco stu (disco stu), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:51 (twenty-two years ago)

< /cynic>

― disco stu (disco stu), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

It's on the first Spectrum Lp and some other record (Silver Apples maybe) that I can't remember.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 11 July 2003 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

'the fact that it doesn't basically demolishes all 19th-century assumptions about the priority of the composer's and/or performer's intentions in the meaning'

but back in the day i'm sure some halls had really shitty acoustics and perhaps some of the instruments were in poor condition as well, also if something wasn't on a record and somebody was playing it wrong most people wouldn't have been able to tell the difference anyway

― dave q, Friday, 11 July 2003 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

oi Jody, in utero had instructions for bass and treble knobs, not volume..

― asshole pedant (gcannon), Friday, 11 July 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i was just gonna say that H.

course the all time classic example is
off of 'ziggy stardust...' which had instructions
that it be played 'at maximum volume'
on the back of the original release sleeve.
this, amusingly, was removed from the artwork
for the cd re-isssue by ryko, lest the company be
besieged by the ear-drum busted masses.

― piscesboy, Friday, 11 July 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

oi Jody, in utero had instructions for bass and treble knobs, not volume..

they're still instructions.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 11 July 2003 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

''you cd specify in decibels rather than knob setting, julio''

do manufacturers provide knob setting to decibels table?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 July 2003 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

"This recording was intended to be listened to on vinyl" or something to that effect say Slint

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 11 July 2003 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

do manufacturers provide knob setting to decibels table?

No, cos it depends on the sensitivity of yr speakers/headphones. I think Mark means you sit there with an SPL meter, and crank it up (or crunk it down) until you meet artiste's specified instructions (i.e. "track #2 at 86-88dBA at listening position or it's MEANINGLESS").

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 11 July 2003 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

what's an SPL meter?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 July 2003 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Isn't "demolishes" a bit strong? They (whoever THEY are) still created pretty much every feature of what yr listening to and are dominating one of yr senses almost entirely, volume's not too big an element of this, is it? Unless it's super quiet, and mostly that'd only happen w/stuff where part of the creator's/s' intention was to provide something not meant to be a focus, wouldn't it?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 11 July 2003 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

There are a lot of easier and more complete ways to demolish authorial intent.

And Guitar Wolf albums often include a strict warning not to turn your stereo up over a certain volume.

― Ess, Friday, 11 July 2003 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

what's an SPL meter?

Sound pressure level meter. Jessica Tandy used to sell them.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 11 July 2003 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

i think it's called HPSCHD by john cage, and it comes with a computer print out of values for volume, treble and bass

each printout was supposedly randomly generated and different, so you each got your own version and you also got to participate

(of course the music was still garbage)

― george gosset (gegoss), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:01 (twenty-two years ago)

well cage hated the entire idea of recordings anyway, for just this kind of reason (= the dialectic between composer control and listener freedom wz wrong: his intentions were mispresented so what you heard was always wrong)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Unless the author's gonna buy me the CD and the stereo to play it on and come and put it on for me as well he can take his intentions and shove 'em up his arse and fuck off while he's doing it.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Jessica Tandy used to sell them.

Joe Maplin still does.

― Ruth Madoc (MichaelJ), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

nick neatly summarises the sociology behind my argt!!

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought Cage was all into "freedom" for the listener?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

but he was against improvisation.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

actually mark, i think this was some sort of genuine attempt to get around cage's problems with recordings, not inconceivable that the project was designed so as to "live" as an event at playback, but then again it's got a certain tounge/cheek element i suppose

personally however, i think all cage's work was a bad joke, so i'm not going to defend it

― george gosset (gegoss), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:27 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, and i think when it comes to shoving it somewhere, that michael gira/ swans sham would take the cake

presumably one has to bust one's speakers and eliminate speaking with neighbours (perhaps the result of mutual deafness), to have that stuff 'round the house

― george gosset (gegoss), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

er, swans post 89 i've found quite mellow (at least what i've heard of it).

I'm quite happy not to talk with neighbours (or anyone) actually.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:34 (twenty-two years ago)

this music was mixed loud, so turn it up. /cure

― kephm, Friday, 11 July 2003 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

if the music was recorded/mixed/made/manufactured correctly to begin with then it shouldn't matter what volume you play it at. it should sound fine no matter how you slice it.

― scott seward, Friday, 11 July 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Even in a live setting, when the artist does have control over the volume produced by the speakers, they still can't control how close to the speakers people sit (which will affect the volume level for them) as well as such factors as whether or not they wear ear plugs, or if the person next to them is talking loudly, or if a fire engine goes by outside, etc., etc. Also, I think that one's perception of volume can change for purely physiological factors - such as whether or not one has a headache, or how hard of hearing one is, etc. So trying to completely control the perceived volume would be exceedingly difficult if not impossible.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, being drunk reduces yr ability to perceive treble frequencies, I've heard, and a LOT of music's heard in that state

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

the residents album, eskimo, comes with listening instructions involving a blanket and windows being open.

tho, never fall asleep listening to eskimo. woke up absolutely freezing.

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

(thank you moderator(s))

― disco stu (disco stu), Friday, 11 July 2003 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Did anybody mention *Metal Machine Music* yet? (I mean, that's got instructions on it, too, right?)

― chuck, Saturday, 12 July 2003 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Any books ever come with instructions for recommended reading speed?

― s1utsky (slutsky), Saturday, 12 July 2003 00:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Kate Bush's The Dreaming came with instructions to play loud, too.

tho, never fall asleep listening to eskimo. woke up absolutely freezing.

You should have listened to Meet The Residents afterward--I've never been able to listen to it without feeling like I'm overheating (even that nice little shower at the end of Spotted Pinto Bean doesn't cool me off).

― Christine 'Green Leafy Dragon' Indigo (cindigo), Saturday, 12 July 2003 01:25 (twenty-two years ago)

how much of those instructions are jokes tho'?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 12 July 2003 12:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Pulp's Different Class asked you not to read the lyrics when listening.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 12 July 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I think all Pulp albums say that.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 July 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, well I obviously played it safe and didn't look at the other liner notes at all.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 12 July 2003 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Hefner's told people to buy more Beach Boys records.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 12 July 2003 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I wrote back and said "I'm sorry but I'm not buying 'Keepin' The Summer Alive'"

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 12 July 2003 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark S, wasn't it the very idea of producing/selling records to hand the steering-wheel over to the customer? Though regarding volume levels, the mastering engineer might be the key factor for the outcome.

(Actual composers acknowledge this btw; eg. Stockhausen thinks his records are mere snapshots of the music. In pop musics, records are the essence.)

― nestmanso (nestmanso), Saturday, 12 July 2003 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Metal Machine Music seems to cut across other noise -- it's the frequencies in there that maybe you're not used to -- nothing else in your listening conditons will generate those frequencies, so they stand out -- any instructions would seem to be as serious as that "my week beats your year" rap, wouldn't they ?

there was some orchestral version of MMM done recently right ? i guess that means that orchestra didn't think the work was a joke

i think MMM has frequencies on it that are in some parts of the states classified as illegal frequencies if occurring in the work place

― george gosset (gegoss), Saturday, 12 July 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Warning! This album should be played at: 11
http://www.mavericktimes.com/spinaltap.jpg

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 12 July 2003 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

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