Creed videos are pure kitsch.

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It's true you know. Cecil B De Mille and Vincente Minnelli at their tackiest and most lavish cannot approach the awful grandeur that is the "One Last Breath" clip.

― amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 13 July 2003 06:56 (twenty-two years ago)

In other news, Michael MacDonald has a new album of soul covers.

― amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 13 July 2003 06:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Somebody...Mr. Miccio, I think...was telling us at the FAP about this insanely over the top Creed video that featured the band as mythological creatures fighting off 'the critics' (represented as evil spiders, etc.). Needless to say, I have to see this.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Did the spiders win? Please tell me the spiders won.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

The video is called "Bullets" and it is FUCKING HILARIOUS.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Launch.com has the video here

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, you beautiful man, I thank you.

*tries to launch it*

What the FLYING fuck. I can't play it with either IE or Safari on my Mac -- I'm supposed to use Netscape and that version is one that only runs in Classic, and my system doesn't seem to be able to find it. I AM DENIED BY MY BEAUTIFUL MACHINE.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Doesn't work for me either, I weep.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

you have to have a yahoo ID to use launch.com. The video for "My Sacrifice" remains my favorite.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Goddammit, Scott Stapp has so many opportunities to die in these videos.. but no!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

you have to have a yahoo ID to use launch.com

I do! I will have to try this again.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

No, I'm fine there, it just automatically signs me in. Confusing.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

'its true you know', what, was the thread title not smug enough for you already?? kitsch is the sewn-together human skin masking pod people anhedonia

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

But the stitching sometimes ain't all that great.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

also in what twisted world is defending debbie gibson 'puckish and insouciant' but a glib college student ironic appreciation of mainstream rock isnt?!?!?!

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

really im not trying to start shit or anything but i fucking hate threads like this, yes youve proven youre smarter than creed, only you can see through all the bullshit to a 'kitsch' interpretation, their idiot fans take them seriously but youre above all that!!! hey maybe you can let me in on the secredt of how law and order is fake too, do you want a fucking medal????

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I will say their videos are only slighter more cheesy and messianic than G'N'R's "Don't Cry/November Rain/Estranged" trilogy.

I don't want a medal, Trife, but I do want to share the laughter. Creed videos are WAY more ludicrously pompous then these threads. Though LOTR fans should realize those movies share a lot of similar elements.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

it seems pretty elitist

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:09 (twenty-two years ago)

hey, if I ever make a video where I float shirtless above a crowd in a Christ-like pose, I won't stop anybody from laughing at that either. Especially if I have Creed dollaz.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Who are the worst anti-elitists? The friendless post-chess hyper-brains, or the squat mongs? They both just want someone to talk to, I suppose. Does this excuse their creepy language and their constant bafflement at why things are funny?

Whatever, I'm glad I'm not an anti-elitist.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

it seems pretty elitist

Well, is your appreciation of what you love driven by a democratic impulse that all might share or a belief that you've got the keys to the kingdom for what works for you best?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Like Trife I tend to take things too seriously sometimes, but Jesus, if I ever get to a point where I feel guilty or weird laughing at a Creed video, please beat my face.

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

im sorry if i dont see the 'democracy' of thinking most people are idiots

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:38 (twenty-two years ago)

My point.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

im sorry if i dont see the 'democracy' of thinking most people are idiots

Nor would most people. That's the joke, see.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

also baffled by the assertion that those darn 'anti elitists' are 'friendless'!! yeah maybe if you count ilm as your 'friends' but people who live in the real world usually dont devote countless hours to some spiteful lord custos so-bad-its-good 'kitsch' nonjoke, theyre busy liking what they ACTUALLY LIKE

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:44 (twenty-two years ago)

ok i didnt mean that to sound so much like a 'real world' wakeup call but fuck it, if everyones going to bizarrely use real world wakeup call rhetoric against me (to defend elitism?!?!?) i might as well too

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

you could probably score some 'friends' making fun of retarded people too but that doesnt make it right

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

To flip it around, they hate what they actually hate too. But you can also allow for sliding scales between the two extremes as well, and that captures a more accurate reflection of critical love, amusement and appreciation than the Manichean vision yer implicitly outlining.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Why do you treat ironic/kitschy appreciation of stuff as an abnormality or a cancer rather than an (admittedly overappreciated among certain crowds but nonetheless) interesting aesthetic vantage point? Also, show me all of these "real people" you always talk about.

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

ned theres a long way to go from changing the radio station when creed is on to paying $80 for mac & me on ebay

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

anyway wheres this scandalous 'irony' in not taking creed seriously, its not like they carry that much critical weight to begin with?? real people = scott stapp

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, I think that feeling such an urgent need to defend "real people" is way more patronizing to them than any sort of ironic appreciation of something they may love sincerely. (cf: your above analogy comparing real people and retards)

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

ned theres a long way to go from changing the radio station when creed is on to paying $80 for mac & me on ebay

Explain this point a little more thoroughly and I might agree, as it is I'm just scratching my head.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

if not liking creed is an 'interesting aesthetic vantage point' theres a lot of nu garage rock fans yall should get with!! the difference is they dont proudly wallow in the 'kitsch' of it all

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

people who live in the real world usually dont devote countless hours to some spiteful lord custos so-bad-its-good 'kitsch' nonjoke, theyre busy liking what they ACTUALLY LIKE

Isn't that being a bit unfair to the people they DON'T LIKE? I mean, who are they to judge? These 'real world people' sound like obnoxious cunts. Keep them away from ME!

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

(i compared creed and retards, i couldve just as easily said any other culturally marginalized entity)

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

the difference is they dont proudly wallow in the 'kitsch' of it all

That's pretty disengenuous.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

(only instead of being retarded their 'disability' is to make proper rock that ilm will take seriously)

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

ned theres a difference between david hasselhoff gifs and andy warhol

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Trife, I thought you were comparing Creed's fans and retards. You're the one who took the laughter we aimed at the video and assumed it into the realm of the audience. It seems like you're kinda lazily sliding back and forth between Creed/Stapp and their fans.

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Sunday, 13 July 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

it doesnt matter who i was comparing!!! i wasnt saying creed fans were retarded i was using another example of a group with little to no sociocultural currency with ilm elitist types, only for difft reasons that you wouldnt openly laugh at, i couldve just as easily said republicans or something

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

theres a difference between david hasselhoff gifs and andy warhol

I see what you're driving at, but as Clarke is noting, the point and scope of your terms in this argument keeps shifting. As it is, if somebody did a scaling of a small Hasselhoff GIF and then did some color alterations with them you'd have a Warhol, so are you all cheesed off about intent or interpretation?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

'ilm elitist types' = ned, gale, saul williams

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

ned i meant the hasselhoff gifs are the good thing in that equation

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

it doesnt matter who i was comparing!!!

It damn well does! The mention of Creed here gets you in a froth and off you're running. So it's obviously touching some sort of nerve before you even start comparing, and the fact that you are doing that means we're all trying to get a sense of what it is that's specifically getting yer goat.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

even though it looked like david hasselhoff, kitt was actually driven by a democratic impulse that all might share

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

a) advance b) YOURE ALL ASSHOLES c) retreat

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

At heart, what annoys you most -- the fact that some people might find something laughably ridiculous that others might think is truly wonderful (whether they're in the band or whatever artistic entity that created something or not), or the fact that people aren't being serious about something before they make fun of it? Does a critic have to pass some sort of test saying, "Yes, I realize that 'real people' might think differently than me, oh the guilt"?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Shit, is the guy's point supposed to be that 'real people' like Creed? Dearie me...

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I know you weren't saying Creed fans were retards, but I just think it's interesting that you ended up using that as your analogue.

I think my peeve here is that you seem to be setting up some sort of college student/ILM elitist/ironic indie hipster straw man whose lack of believability far exceeds that of the retarded man-on-street straw man you accuse others of attacking.

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

when i say real people i just mean me, 'real people' is a way you make you all feel guilty about not doing what i want

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

i also like 'real music'

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate with fierce passion the word "real" as well -- I'll write a book about it one day, mark my word.

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Why didn't you just say you liked Creed, Trife?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i was embarrassed :`(``

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Speak up for all yer passions.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i liked '1979' and the from the earth to the moon one

― trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:20 (twenty-two years ago)

:-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 July 2003 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

what do the smashing pumpkins have to do with this?

― reo fordecor, Monday, 14 July 2003 01:32 (twenty-two years ago)

when i moved to south carolina in 95 my cousin liked them, he was in his twenties and looked like billy corrigan. when i saw the from the earth to the moon video on the mtv awards it seemed like high art, i didnt know anybody else liked silent movies then

― trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 July 2003 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

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