Fugazi: C or D?

(the song, spock, is "margin walker.")

These days the term "emo" is like the Blob/Borg, threatening to absord everything in its path: "I really like emo, you know, like the Beatles and Moby."

No, sir, I don't like it one bit.

I think it's the only genre term I've ever seen change completely over the course of 4-5 years. I suppose that can be blamed, in part, on the people making it -- the term started with just-post-hardcore bands like Cap'N Jazz and would up stuck on bashy- poppy-punk bands like the Promise Ring (members of Cap'N Jazz). Regardless, any term variously applied to refer to Mineral, Karate, and the Get-Up Kids is beginning to lack meaning.

But so the question now is: with the Cap'N Jazz guys reforming as the Owls, will "emo" go back to being what it was, leaving the Get-Up Kids as just "crap?" Or will the Owls play funk, leading us to start referring to Parliament as "emo?"

Emo: supposed to have started with Rites of Spring is my understanding, who led to Fugazi. Now the term is meaningless, for reasons laid out expertly by Nitsuh.

North of America: not emo at all. Math rock, pure math rock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guvwUUCvsKs&feature=share

^^Not showing up for me. What is it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guvwUUCvsKs

I love how Albini said for years that Fugazi was one of the few bands he respected so much he'd record them for free. And then he recorded them and they didn't use it.

Hmm. I can sorta see why they scrapped this, but I say that as someone very, very familiar with IOTKT as it was released

But none of these versions are better than the album versions

(see also: First Demo. How many times have you listened to that one since you bought it?)

Ian Mackaye of Fugazi/Minor Threat/ Dischord Records at the #JuggaloMarch pic.twitter.com/acrebJ4zCd

— #retiredpunk (@NickKarpPhotos) September 17, 2017

http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0002/018/MI0002018821.jpg

Saw that! Watched Brendan Canty playing drums with Lizzi from GangGang Dance & guitarist Dana Vorhees at the Hirshhorn Museum Yoko Ono tribute. Canty & Joe Lally will be backing Daniel Johnston on his upcoming DC gig.

Koolest Wizards jumbotron screengrab of all time? pic.twitter.com/XV6Xt4R8D1

— Chris _ _ Richards (@Chris__Richards) November 10, 2017

Also, had no idea Lally and Canty were in a new band together.

(With Anthony Pirog)

& Rites of Spring really surprised me

Welp, that rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0nFZe_e-qc

new canty/lally/pirog track

Another track here https://themessthetics.bandcamp.com/track/serpent-tongue

Messthetics album release is March 23. Brendan Canty is also gonna be busy touring with MC5 50th anniversary group with Wayne Kramer and others

End hits fucking rules

^otm

all fugazi albums rule

Steady Diet of Nothing doesn't imo but that's about it

No, that one rules, too. A lot.

Steady Diet a lot better than End Hits - the former a much better showcase for the rhythm section, which is the band's strongest point.

(what I mean is the instrumental-side of Fugazi is better in the context of short, tightly wound interplay where the bass/drums are at the forefront - 'jammy' Fugazi isn't the best Fugazi IMO)

i'd call red medicine jammy, end hits i guess is playing-wise but towards much more frictive ends? anyway that era is my favorite of theirs, i think the rhythm section gets plenty of shine and the compositions especially on end hits hit a great balance of punch and spaciousness (both of which iirc steady diet lacks a bit i comparison to their other records variously, though it still rules)

the argument hits that balance the most smoothly and so might be their best (it's a good record to end on as it ties together strands of their previous modes to creates its own). i listen to it less though bc i love their jammy mode

There is a case to be made that The Argument=Red Medicine/End Hits. End Hits is the one I listen to the least, for no good reason.

In On The Kill Taker is the band's most aggro album. "Facet Squared" - an awesome rush, but why even bother with lyrics? Blaaaargh!

...and their best, IMO. Probably their loudest album but also more dynamically nuanced than the earlier stuff. Plus "Sweet and Low" (an example of why I'm iffy about the longer, later material - they perfected the "this is a Fugazi instrumental" here)

"Facet Squared" - an awesome rush, but why even bother with lyrics? Blaaaargh!

ah but Facet Squared includes one of my absolute favourite Ian lines - "We draw lines and we stand behind them / That's why flags are such ugly things"

I love the lyrics to Facet Squared. 'Cool's eternal but it's always dated' has the ring of a stolen revealed truth.

Yeah, but did you catch any of those lyrics without a lyrics sheet?

Steady Diet is the one that most consistently slays from beginning to end imo. Maybe others have higher highs but it's still my favorite to play in the car.

xp "Irony is the refuge of the educated" was a line ahead of its time imo

That and "I hate the sound of guitars" are the fugazi lyrics I think about most

Messthetics LP is awesome, gotta check out more music by this Anthony Pirog guy

Good podcast interview w/Ian about some of the music that mattered to him: http://wypr.org/post/essential-tremors-ian-mackaye

Fugazi rules. my first album of theirs was "Red Medicine" and i was shocked it was only $10. soon enough picked up "Repeater" and listened to those two a lot in my first year of college. kept up with them off an on and always enjoyed their stuff. i remember really liking the "Instrument" movie, which was the last thing i heard of them.

i got to see them play a show in early 2000s. it was of course a great show, and they stopped it midway through to throw out somebody in the audience who was being unduly aggressive. as a small person who always had to be cautious around mosh pits at shows, seeing this in action was very much appreciated!

No one wants to discuss this Mesthetics record, huh? Quit living in the past!

Mostly kidding here. But this record is great and should be getting more attention.

Fuck it, I'm starting a thread

Good new Ian interview:

https://greedmagazine.substack.com/p/fugazi-now-ian-mackaye-1

Great interview, as always. I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but 'I'm So Tired' is reminiscent of Diane.

That interview is interesting. Ian has been out and about in DC lately-- he moderated a talk with John R Davis who has a book out about dc punk fanzines, and he moderated a talk with Brian Baker (Minor Threat, Dag Nasty, Bad Religion guitarist) who has a photo book out.

Hmm, "I'm So Tired" does not remind me of Husker Du "Diane" ...

I've listened to the Gravenhurst cover of Diane more times than the original. I probably mean that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi6Z8BHiH1g

Never really liked Fugazi. Way too tame. When I first heard the music I was so confused like, oh people like this because it’s watered down versions of all the noise rock, post-hardcore, and other Dischord bands from the time. Feels proto-Turnstile (the newer albums) in that way - Joshua Minsoo Kim , Pitchfork contributor on twitter

He’s getting grief from many and support from some. I don’t care if he doesn’t like them ( he later tweeted he liked 7 Songs but didn’t like them after that) but his take seems factually off in his description of the time period as does his use of “watered down “

that's bait

Yeah, total bait, but I'll bite: what the hell? Tame? Watered down? Like, hey dummy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYeNyYGTSjU

Also, lol at "proto-Turnstile." Um, sure, I guess.

needs to throw down his bulldog front

What a fud.

fool's errand to tell a journalist that you don't need to have an opinion on everything

(or at least, no need to tell it to people)

Is that guy twelve

Anyone listen to the new Live Series posted to bandcamp yet? Leeds Halloween 02?

https://fugazi.bandcamp.com/album/fugazi-live-at-metropolitan-university-leeds-uk-10-31-02-fls1041

uh highest recommendation for that one

Is that guy twelve

― underminer of twenty years of excellent contribution to this borad (dan m), Monday, December 8, 2025 6:26 AM (eleven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

ngl it is the kind of shit i would say in hs, not abt fugazi necessarily, just the unearned authority to post a challops vibe

That's not just wrong, but a surprising take coming from Kim, who never strikes me as the kind of wannabe internet hardman to call bands "tame" and/or "watered down." He usually falls all over himself to be nice.

He's a great interviewer, too. This post surprised me but I'm not on twitter much. Does he often do this sorta thing?

Taking a shot at one of the least "tame" or "watered down" of iconic bands, it almost seems like a bit, like Wurster on "The Best Show."

don't know whether to put this in the Autechre or Dijon etc. thread so I'll put it here lol, somehow even worse than his Fugazi take, and I've seen both Autechre and Dijon on their recent tours and love both but come on man

sound design at the dijon show is more exhilarating, unexpected, and mindblowing than anything i heard at autechre. not even close. i’m not “ragebaiting” either; it’s way more shocking to hear all these things happen at a massive venue in the context of pop music

— Joshua Minsoo Kim (@misterminsoo) December 9, 2025

Absolute proof that I'm officially old and out of the loop, I don't think I've even heard of Dijon before! And he (apparently) literally just played two big shows here, was on SNL, getting album/artist of the year cred, etc. Played a bit of this year's album and it's pretty good! Kind of a mix of Autechre and Fugazi, but less tame and watered down.

uh highest recommendation for that one

― a (waterface), Monday, 8 December 2025 14:56 (yesterday)

Yes it is great, Ian & Guy seem a little hoarse at the start but as it gets rolling it really takes off, I am really having fun going through all these old Fugazi live shows, which is good for me cuz I am old too and I need it as tame & watered down as possible

having read jmk for a long time at the singles jukebox, he's full of these takes

am so digging the Fugazi live tapes, I know this is a tired comparison but they are like Dead tapes to me, love how Ian says "you'd make a great cop, you fucking pig" before every 'Great Cop', the meandering run-ups to 'Do You Like Me?', every single version of 'Shut The Door', etc...

for sure. i don't look ahead at the song titles, i just let it run and the way they signal to one another re: the next song is inspiring

I find myself esp loving all the little dub elements added on the live versions of "Repeater"

did Fugazi have setlists or did they make it up on the fly? I know JSBX did, and these Fugazi shows feel similarly improv'd, in terms of the choice of songs.

the 1990 show I saw def has a written setlist

i think they rarely used one

they have little cues they used or just straight up announce "This is song is called ___" and then BAM

No setlists, iirc.

The live stuff is so key to understanding the band, imo. Ian always says that the reason they'll probably never reunite, despite all being friends and in contact, is that the only way to get to where they were at as a unit would be weeks of practice, hours on end. The live tapes, you hear the fruits of that interaction and familiarity.

i think they picked the first song and went from there. at some point, 2/3rd of the way through they must signal to one another that it's time for "Guy just sings without guitar" suite for Waiting Room/Glue Man type songs.

another plug: the Lupo's 93 Providence RI tape is on Bandcamp and it's A+

Yeah def no setlists, as for cues occasionally you can hear them doing the Miles Davis of someone playing three-notes from the next song to signal where they are going next, but yeah really another level of inter-band attention/communication

Tho obv it is a tamed & watered down vers of no setlist

I always heard the same as was mentioned: first song decided on, with the rest being open

With that in mind the opening of this show made me chuckle:

https://vimeo.com/22628887?fl=pl&fe=sh

After a little banter Ian gets peeved and launches into Instrument - a song I don't think they ever opened with before or since. You can sort of read Guy giving a little surprised look at Brendan, it's cute

OK I must be misremembering the show, I coulda sworn there was a setlist on stage. But hey it's been 35 years...

I think the way the Drive-By Truckers do it (they are one of the only rock bands I can think of these days that also doesn't use a setlist, at least off the top of my head) is to yeah, agree on a first song and then go from there.

I've had "Birthday Pony" stuck in my head for a week. Thanks, Fugazi!

Good (part 2) of a recent interview with Guy here:

https://greedmagazine.substack.com/p/fugazi-now-guy-picciotto-2

just catching up on these Guy interviews - i particularly laughed at this part:

GUY: Did you know that we traveled with a dryer? We had a dryer and we drilled two-by-fours and wheels on it, and we would wheel it onto the stage every night. And when the show was over, our clothes were just soaked, so each member had to take off their clothes, rinse them off in a sink, spritz some fucking gross soap on them, and then throw them in the dryer because no one wanted to fucking deal with the clothes. We would have the dryer on stage, you’d throw the fucking clothes in there and you would dry them, and then we would throw the dryer in with the drums and the amps and the guitars and everything else. Ian still has the dryer. At a certain point, you’d go into clubs and people would see the dryer, and they’re like, “What the fuck?” But it was required because after the shows, we would be dripping.

hope some pictures confirming this exist

The dryer was mentioned by a guest on one of the episodes of The Alphabetical Fugazi podcast. I think it was one of the people who booked them to play in Tuba City in the Navajo Nation during The Argument tour.

The dryer has been mentioned multiple times in interviews.

i'd never heard of it before this one, and I get around!

I never thought too hard on drying before
I never sucked on the drying
I never licked the side of drying before
And now I'm feeling the drying

haha

i am a patient boy…etc

Don Caballero played at my tiny club once back in 1999 or 2000 and when the show was over Damon Che immediately stripped off all of his clothes right there on stage, toweling himself off as people were still filing out.

haha i was once backstage at a fugazi show (friend's band was on dischord) and saw the fabled dryer

hope they had some softener sheets, because i know from playing high school basketball that that shit gets crunchy

Ian probably thinks fabric softener is a bourgeois affectation.

Haha I have a friend, a very fastidious person, well-groomed, stylish, who played many shows with Fugazi over the yrs and if you could see the horror in his eyes when he described the dryer and attendant odor to me, hahaha, best band ever

xps

ring the alarm or you're sold to drying