TRUE "innovators" in modern electronic music

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Inspired by a recent thread where I was persecuted for claiming Aaron Funk / Venetian Snares to be an innovator (a claim i stand by)

So who do you all consider 'innovators' in modern (as in, not Mort Garson, Raymond Scott, etc) electronic music?

Aside from the obvious ones (Aphex, the Mego / Rehberg & Bauer crew), the only ones jumping immediately to mind are Theo Parrish (tho some might say he's part of a lineage) and V/VM.

Because getting bogged down in semantics is what it's all about...

― roger adultery, Friday, 1 August 2003 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Does Normal (Dennis Millar) count as modern?
I'd also like to give New Order credit.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 1 August 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

surgeon
timbaland
third eye foundation
murcof
jeff mills

― robin (robin), Friday, 1 August 2003 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

martin gretschmann
ekkehard ehlers

i second the murcof.

― jason m. (jason m), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, mf doom.

― jason m. (jason m), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Good ones so far, all (tho third eye foundation is questionable)

how about El-P?

― roger adultery, Friday, 1 August 2003 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

It depends. Do you mean "innovator" as in exploring new methods of music creation? Or do you mean "innovator" as in exploring new styles, structures, and textures? (ie a tech innovator or a music innovator, or both?)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

dj sneak/daft punk

basement jaxx

This thread is just begging for a row between people who fetishise the term "true innovators" and human beings.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

this thread is just begging for people to give justifications, rather than lists...

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Amon Tobin
rjd2
anticon (the beats)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Ray Kurzweil

― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Markus Popp
Brian Eno

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i'll justify my mf doom and martin gretschmann choices by referencing martin's work with the notwist and doom's work on the victor vaughn album. i feel like both are bringing electronic elements into other genres and succeeding quite well not just in theory but also implementation. there.

― jason m. (jason m), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i dare someone to say kraftwerk!

― jason m. (jason m), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Eno for obvious reasons (unless his most important stuff is too old to be considered "modern" for this thread) and Popp for hearing something much more interesting than "Perfect Sound Forever" w/ in digital storage.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

mark, any news on a new oval EP/LP? i thought there was one coming out on thrill jockey fairly soon but have heard scant news about it...i really liked ovalprocess.

― jason m. (jason m), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

come on the justifications will be terribly boring drones.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

ronan just gave my ekkehard ehlers justification, it's true.

― jason m. (jason m), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Not sure about Oval, but I have a promo of the new Markus Popp project "So" (Popp + a woman from Japan named Eri) -- it is excellent, I think the best thing he's done since '94. Smeared vocals, bits of guitar, dense processing...so lovely.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

There is So info on the Thrill Jockey website, I think it's out in September.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Georgio Moroder.

The justification is I Feel Love aka The Rocket 88 of electronic dance music.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I would also mention Moritz Von Oswald and Mark Ernestus from Basic Channel because the hardwax family of labels completely changed the face of underground electronic music in the 90's.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Robert Moog for inventing Voltage Controled Ocillators thus allowing synths to be played from a regular keyboard. He is single-handedly responsible for bringing electronics into the realm of popular music production.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

what about don buchla?
i nominate leon theremin for inventing the coolest instrument of all time.

― Felcher (Felcher), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

We might as well take it all the way back:

Thomas Edison: "Mary had a little lamb."

Or better yet, AGB: "Watson! Come here! I want you!"

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

how modern is modern?
liaisons dangereuses and their jittery non 4/4 arrangements with conny plank at the helm, severed heads - video synthesizers and mad cut-up pop , giorgio moroder for giving us soft cell's memorabilia, soft cell for bringing sleaze into the charts, martin rushent for dare and sampling bowie on the associates album, amongst other things. eno for being eno, throbbing gristle for giving us chris carter and chris and cosey. oh, and daniel miller for the normal, live at west runton pavillion , the silicon teens and mute records. felix kubin for being alive and recording. there's more, but, the kettle's on.

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Derrick May. See: "IKON (Montage Mix)", "R-Theme", "Nude Photo" if you need a reason why. "Magic" Juan Atkins a close second.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I definitely second the Basic Channel / Chain Reaction crew

― roger adultery, Friday, 1 August 2003 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I say Todd Terry
and await crucifixion
(but think about it)

― Haikunym, Friday, 1 August 2003 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought this thread was about people innovating within the current dymanic of electronic music. i'm sure leon theremin and brian eno's contributions to the history of electronic music are well documented by now, i took this thread to mean "where do we go from here, and who is taking us there?"

― jason m. (jason m), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm compelled to suggest such folks as Talvin Singh and Karsh Kale (and even to some extent Cornelius & Roni Size and some others) into this thread for the way they use loops in live-music-format and blend sample-based music with live instrumentation to where, rather than, say, just dropping samples into rock/jazz pieces or using live instruments over-top of electronically created foundations, they are actually innovating into a whole new organo-electric super-hybrid where both tradition and innovation are honored, where the rhythms of the machines and of the humans are of equal importance. That, to me at least, definitely qualifies as innovation.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

mr. quintron
people like us
john oswald
phillip jeck
blecchdom vs. blectum

― autovac (autovac), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

o'rourke, fennesz and pita

― Felcher (Felcher), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

right on time: Toshimaru Nakamura, Sachiko M and Otomo Yoshihide

― dleone (dleone), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Toshimaru Nakamura, Sachiko M and Otomo Yoshihide

Hard to argue with that. But blecchdom from blectum? How did they innovate?

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

(that qn to autovac)

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Todd Edwards!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 1 August 2003 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Whoever invented Max/MSP.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Friday, 1 August 2003 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

and doom's work on the victor vaughn album

I thought he had guest producers on all those tracks?

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Friday, 1 August 2003 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

just out of curiosity,how is third eye foundation questionable?
surely if murcof is accepted third eye is as well,since they're basically two sides of the same coin?

― robin (robin), Friday, 1 August 2003 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Gee, I wonder if any electronic music "innovations" were made for the dancefloor. Nah, it must all be about these home-listening guys and their beat fuckery.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 August 2003 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I think there are quite a few floor-fillerers upthread.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 1 August 2003 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread is begging to be a flamewar.

That said, people always equate Oval with Markus Popp. For their first three albums, they were a trio of Markus Popp, Frank Metzger and Sebastian Oschatz. It always saddens me when I see Popp taking all the credit for this music when he was merely one of several people working on the "process." Of course, I know with total certainty he encourages this notion.

As far as the contemporary scene, I would argue that what people mean is probably whose work was the synthesis that spawned and inspired like-minded music. If so, I would totally stand by Basic Channel, Jeff Mills, Juan Atkins, etc.

Mego's contribution was to bring computer music to a different audience. Of that, the real innovation was one of form. It was Hecker who started performing with powerbooks circa 1996. The other early Mego stuff was good music, but it wasn't completely earth-shattering in terms of what it actually sounded like. But, I think that what they did bringing together disparate genres was interesting and innovative...the actual music, not as innovative compared to Dockstadter, Brun, Xennakis, Ussachevsky, et al.

― direct_program, Friday, 1 August 2003 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

808 state with newbuild
some of the early black dog/bilial/plaid
autechre
some of herbert
prototype era jungle

it really depends on how you quantify innovate as in innovate a syle or bringing together a hybridization of different styles to create something altogether unheard before

first time I heard the orb I was floored too.

― hector (hector), Friday, 1 August 2003 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Has Made Mike Banks been mentioned yet? If not, he should be.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Friday, 1 August 2003 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

And, of course, Delia Derbyshire, producer of the original Dr Who theme and one of electropop's greatest and least appreciated pioneers.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Friday, 1 August 2003 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

KLF, uh huh.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 1 August 2003 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

That said, people always equate Oval with Markus Popp. For their first three albums, they were a trio of Markus Popp, Frank Metzger and Sebastian Oschatz. It always saddens me when I see Popp taking all the credit for this music when he was merely one of several people working on the "process." Of course, I know with total certainty he encourages this notion.

I've often wondered about this -- I think the problem is the lack of notariety for others since they left the fold. Did Metzger stay involved in music? I thought Oschatz was a graphic designer.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 August 2003 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Metzger's still doing music under the name Oval/Frank Metzger. I enjoyed his tracks on the 'James T Russell' compilation on Alku and wish he would do a full album, I think I'd enjoy it more than Popp's recent path, as impressively noisy as it is. I remember an online interview with Metzger confirming 'SAW II' as the central sample source for 'systemich'.

― jl (Jon L), Friday, 1 August 2003 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

TWERK

― chaki (chaki), Friday, 1 August 2003 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Metzger's still doing music under the name Oval/Frank Metzger. I enjoyed his tracks on the 'James T Russell' compilation on Alku and wish he would do a full album

Does it sound anything like early Oval?

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 1 August 2003 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

orbital
prodigy
dr dre

― robin (robin), Saturday, 2 August 2003 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm kinda with Nickalicious on the Cornelius half-mention-aside from being a massive fan, I have this belief that Fantasma and Dig Your Own Hole are working towards the same point (melding much of the last 30 years' pop/major genres with electronics) but Keigo carries the bonding off with far more skill and accomplishment. Also, his sound effects/manipulations and stereo panning are unreal.

Also, DJ Jason/Mad Doctor X during the early-mid 90s-not super innovative, yet someone who could do instrumental hip hop/trip hop without resorting to Grand Central/jazz noodling/Preno-Native Tongues/'soulful'/aural wallpaper cliche.

― Barima (Barima), Saturday, 2 August 2003 01:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Does it sound anything like early Oval?

yes it does. less 4/4, more fragmented, but really lovely. the change in oval's can be directly attributed to the loss of the other two members.

― jl (Jon L), Saturday, 2 August 2003 07:52 (twenty-two years ago)

*sigh, whisper: 'mark s to thread ...!'*

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 2 August 2003 09:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Robert Fripp for the invention of Frippatronics, as used by Brian Eno. Timbaland, Susumu Yokota, Kraftwerk, El-p and anticon.

― GloBaL^, Saturday, 2 August 2003 09:52 (twenty-two years ago)

before derrick may, many countries had yet to discover the wheel

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 2 August 2003 09:54 (twenty-two years ago)

before Wiley Kat, many people had yet to discover the WHUMP!

― Keith McD (Keith McD), Saturday, 2 August 2003 10:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I would have to claim that Björk is innovative in marrying electronic music to emotion and fleshy humanity.

If she's not, who are her forebears?

― mei (mei), Saturday, 2 August 2003 11:13 (twenty-two years ago)

jesus save us

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 2 August 2003 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Um, house, hi-nrg, italo, electro, jungle and garage to thread...

How about:

Ian Levine
Zanni
Ron Hardy
DJ Pierre
Unique 3
Mickey Finn
Goldie (for Terminator, if nothing else)
Cajmere
Armand (for fucks sakes)
Todd Edwards
Tuff Jam

― Jacob (Jacob), Saturday, 2 August 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

mei - check out "Grand Illusion"(Donna Summer), it's on 'The Wanderer'

― dave q, Saturday, 2 August 2003 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

One of the great things about modern electronic music is that you cannot actually pigeonhole it into a canon until it is past tense.

I can think of a ton of current influences both past and present, but I cannot really of anybody currently working whose influence has yet to be felt.

One group that just bit me in the ass and I did not even think of it was Adult. Regardless of my opinion of their last full length, they were the prototype for the post-punk/electro revival and they were doing this as early as 1996! (Adam Lee Millar was doing raw new wave electro with Le Car before Adult.) Their influence was huge in bringing electro-revivalism to the indie kids and for laying a big part of the groundwork for the electro-clash hype that swallowed them up.

I-F was huge in the same way, but his influence is completely missed by most of the ILM folks. Sleazy Hague disco never really caught on too big around these parts.

Jeff Mills and Rob Hood definitely need to be brought up as well. Those guys laid the foundation for minimal techno which begat abstract minimal techno which begat microhouse. Jeff Mills is still kicking ass to this day. The Every Dog Has It's Day records are brilliant and a "get at once" necessity in every good electronic music collection.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Sunday, 3 August 2003 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Mammal, Wolf Eyes, Meerk Puffy/Forcefield crew.

― Ian Johnson (elmo oxygen), Sunday, 3 August 2003 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

this thread is an abomination.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 3 August 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

nausenblauten and THAT'S IT

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 3 August 2003 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Strongo, for the last time - it's NasenBULTEN.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Sunday, 3 August 2003 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, NasenBLUTEN.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Sunday, 3 August 2003 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

blauten sounds better. like a sausage.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 3 August 2003 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

When you to the physician must

* If the bleedings do not stop after 20 minutes or are reciprocal, neck nose ear physician or hospital visit.
* If you frequently without reason nose bleeding get.
* If after an accident bright liquid from the nose "bleeds" (brain liquid), immediately to the emergency surgeon!

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.meine-gesundheit.de/krank/druck/nasenblu.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3DNasenBLUTEN%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG

― jl (Jon L), Sunday, 3 August 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

nasenbluten? why strongo?

― gaz (gaz), Sunday, 3 August 2003 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

because i'm petulant

also, becuase one can never imagine derrick may's biggest "hit" being called "cocksucker"

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 3 August 2003 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

you just havent heard the cover of Cocksucker Blues that he did to get out of his contract with R&S.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Sunday, 3 August 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

So THAT'S what you need to do to get out of a contract with R&S.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Sunday, 3 August 2003 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

weatherall!
popp!
lavelle!
dntel!

― tk, Monday, 4 August 2003 03:59 (twenty-two years ago)

i have to throw any of the monolake [although the mention basic channel possibly covers them/him]

also,larry heard "alien" is a step away from his house stuff ala mr.fingers.

― william (william), Monday, 4 August 2003 04:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Gina G
DJ Otzi

and that's it!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 4 August 2003 06:09 (twenty-two years ago)

dntel and lavelle are innovative like my left sock

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 4 August 2003 06:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Re: lavelle, don't you have to make music in order to be a music innovator?

― oops (Oops), Monday, 4 August 2003 06:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Innovators:

All of the early electronic musicians, from the thirties to sixties, who dreamt of stuff that was still beyond their reach technically.

King Tubby and Teo Macero, who proved that a producer can be an artist and a studio can be an instrument.

Robert Moog for Moog.

Brian Eno for formulating the ambient aesthetic.

Kraftwerk, who realized that you've got leave your humanity to produce machine music.

Herbie Hancock for presaging the things to come with "Sextant", right before he moved to Planet Funk.

Giorgio Moroder for inventing the synthetic dancefloor hypnosis.

The Chigaco house producers for perfecting that hypnosis.

The Detroit techno producers, who merged all of the previous innovations with a vision of their own.

Afrika Bambaataa and Arthur Baker for doing the same in New York.

Marley Marl for bringing sampladelia into popular music.

The early British hardcore/jungle producers for slicing up the beat.

And that's it. These were, in my opinion, the true innovators of the form and mould, while the latter innovators have worked within that mould. I'm not saying folks like Weatherall, Orbital or Roni Size are in any way inferior, but you got give respect where the respect's due.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 4 August 2003 07:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Seems a pretty fair list. I haven't heard anyone do anything "innovative" in "electronic" music for years - who can be bothered listening to that tidal wave of mediocrity anymore?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 4 August 2003 12:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, I think there are still innovations, it's just that the innovations don't sound so revolutionary any more, because we've grown accustomed every sort of electronic music, it's sort of a saturation effect. Having said that, I do think that innovations of form have become rarer, because almost everything has already been tried. I think drum'n'bass was the last totally new genre invented, nowadays it's a question of hybridization, or even retro movements (electroclash!). But that doesn't mean revolutions in form can't happen ever again, they've just become rarer (the same thing happened with rock, I think). Anyway, the innovations that are made today are more often sound innovations, but that's fine by me, because that's what electronic music has always been about.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Ian Levine is somebody who is begging for reassessment (positive AND negative) and from the little I know about him seems to be a very interesting pop (culture plus music) figure.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...

who said twerk. twerk sucks.

― amanda smart-taylor, Friday, 9 January 2004 07:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Tuomas & Jacob OTM
Dude. Ron Hardy. Yes!

how about
Lee Perry
Larry Levan
& Francois Kevorkian for his holy early remixes

― bahktin, Friday, 9 January 2004 08:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Datach'i (?)

― christoff (christoff), Friday, 9 January 2004 14:48 (twenty-two years ago)

BRUCE HAACK-KING OF TECHNO

― thomas de'aguirre (biteylove), Friday, 9 January 2004 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

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