What artist has had the most detrimental influence on music ever?

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In my opinion, music would be more interesting today had Blondie and the Jam never existed. Both groups musically never added up to more than the sum of their influences - in fact their whole M.O. was to be as militantly derivative as possible (in Blondie's case, lyrically as well), and their postmodern-pastiche approach is responsible for every dull, parasitical, formulaic band to ever follow them - the success of Blondie and the Jam immediately ossified the form, making sure it could never grow (no wonder their last album was 'No Exit'), thus responsible for the death of guitar-rock as a breathing art form.

So why is their influence worse than any other band's? Because had they never existed, perhaps other bands from the same respective scenes as them might have become role models instead. (Suicide and the Contortions from the Lower East Side scene, Gang of Four or Wire or the Slits or the Flying Lizards or any other fucking band that wasn't responsible for Cast and Oasis and the Roses and the La's and Flowered Up and Ocean Colour Scene and Lighthouse Family and Seal and Simply Red and Jane McDonald and everybody else influenced by the Modfather.) And then 'rock' might be interesting and not the half-completed sketches of a necrophilian with Epstein-Barr Virus.
So, Blondie and the Jam are my suspects for the death of music, but yours may be different!_

― dave q, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

beatles.sex pistols.sly and the family stone.stone roses.

― gareth, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Blondie? Pah-leeeze.

No, you be looking at Dylan there. But I already have said elsewhere why and don't feel like repeating the argument again but it goes in mathematical formula, Dylan: literal meaning + lyrics > intensity = fall from grace (though not The Fall, hoho)

― Omar, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yes but it's hardly Dylan's fault that people decided to pick over his mostly non-literalist lyrics and ignore the massive upping of intensity caused by his breakdown of vocal tropes. Dylan's harmonica plus larynx combo is the birth of noise.

― Tom, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's early, so please excuse my clogged though process: Are you intimating that Blondie and the Jam prevented the growth of postmodern pastiche, in addition to guitar-based rock and roll? I can certainly think of many bands who have done great things with guitars despite your claim, like... uhhh...

Assuming My Bloody Valentine and Sonic Youth belong in the same context with 'credible' bands like the Slits and Gang of Four, I don't believe the argument would really hold up. After all, look at all the awful crap those two later bands have spawned. So I'd say Kevin Shields and Thurston Moore have aided in the overload of crappy guitar music more than Paul Weller or Chris Stein.

I certainly don't believe that Suicide or the Contortions would have shifted into the spotlight without Blondie's existence. Had the Ramones, Talking Heads, and Television never happened, neither Suicide nor the Contortions would have received more exposure -- I'd say they would have received less exposure, actually.

I hope the phrases 'death of guitar rock' and 'death of music' are used facetiously.

― Andy, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Abba. I've already told you the reasons why.

― Kate the Saint, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

beatles have incorporated classical music devices (such as orchestration, electronic tricks) in their music in a clever way but maybe they started the process that led to mix pop music and late baroque = progressive rock . so maybe they're to blame for something.

― francesco, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Do you really think Blondie & The Jam had that much of an influence on music as a whole? I can't really think of any bands of any consequence that were that directly influenced by Blondie (No Doubt? not even all that much) or The Jam.

― fritz, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

NIR FUCKING VANA

― Mike Hanle y, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

in any case, bands that had a terrible effect on recent popular music include:

- the red hot chili peppers - culpable because flea alone has created a legion of crappy pop-happy overplaying bass abusers, plus their aggro-hippy date-rape-friendly stage antics paved the way for ICP, Limp Bizkit et al., also responsible for the ubiquitous "tribal" tattoo

- NWA - This'll probably piss some people off, but while Straight Outta Compton is a five-star classic their influence introduced a formula that hip hop is still largely stuck in.

- Sebadoh/cheap used 4-track recording devices - Hugely influential in North American indie scene, circa '92 - '95. Everybody and their dog recorded frail mopey out-of-tune ditties about doing hot knives and being rejected by their sixth-grade girlfriends.

- the State of Florida - responsible for Lou Perlman's pedo empire (Britney, backstreet boys, nsync, o-town, the lite funky ones), the nu-metal crackers Korn & Limp Bizkit, and the election of Dubya.

― fritz, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Radiohead. They've made it impossible for any new UK bands to be anything but badly-dressed boys wailing constantly, saying nothing of any import. Muse, Starsailor, Coldplay, ad nauseam.

― Dickon Edwards, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

According to Sir Arthur Sullivan, Thomas Alva Edison. There's a famous wax-cylinder recording of Sullivan saying something along the lines of how, now that sound can be reproduced on Edison's phonograph, he dreads what terrible, terrible performances will now be immortalized for posterity.

― X. Y. Zedd, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What Andy said.

― Sean, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Andy, I'm interested to hear what "awful crap" you think Kevin Shields' guitar playing has spawned... I rather like a lot of the bands that are obviously influenced by MBV.

Also, I think Rage Against the Machine have had a pretty detrimental effect on music, though perhaps not the worst ever or anything. Still, their moronic "synths are for pussies" stuff just yanks the whole "Disco Sucks!" BS straight into the present day. By the way, Mr. Morello, if synths are so wack, why do you make you guitar try to sound so much like one?

― Clarke B., Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Shields and Moore were responsible for a lot of crap,but at least it was crap in an R&D sense - loads of experiments with a small percentage of good results. Whereas Stein and Weller legitimized not having anything to bring to the table except a big spoon.

― dave q, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong -- I haven't really paid a great deal of attention to indie rock in the last several years. When I was still in retail there was an increasing percentage of bands who were obviously big MBV fans. I'm assuming these people still exist and that they're regenerating like those eggs in Joust. Is seems like it.

A lot of guitarists heard the records and thought something like "Cool, I don't need to learn any chords or how to really play; with Daddy's credit card, I can buy enough effects pedals to fill my used Saab, hook 'em up and fiddle with my tremolo. I'll get a drummer who can sorta play, a bassist who can sorta play, and I'll get my girlfriend to sing really trite lyrics that make Slowdive look like Dylan. It's fine that her range is so limited, because if I bury the vocals in the guitars it'll sound just like MBV."

There are exceptions, Windy and Carl being one of them. However, when I read that a band is influenced by MBV, it is my experience that the likeliness of them sucking is excessively high.

― Andy, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have to state that Paul Weller and Chris Stein/Debbie Harry wrote a shitload of tremendously catchy songs. Perhaps that doesn't carry much weight anymore.

And how is the "R&D" of MBV fans better or different than say Blondie's experimenting with girl-group, rap (way ahead of the curve on this one) and carribean infulences? Or does feedback just taste better from a spoon?

― Sean, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

By experimenting with Spector/Caribbean, Blondie was placing itself in the same envelope-pushing stratosphere that was being explored by that other New Yawk punk, Billy Joel. (As for 'Rapture', it bears the same relation to hip-hop as 'Rappin' Rodney Dangerfield' does, except for the bits stolen from 'Remain in Light').

― dave q, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You're no fun.

― Sean, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

A) Don't diss Billy Joel. Also, experimenting with Spector included that other other NY Punk band.... (wait for it)... The Ramones!

B)If Rapture didn't relate to rap, then why did KRS-One sample it? Huh? Huh? Huh?

C)I mean, honestly, Blondie penned some marvelous singles. Sunday Girl in particular. & Who are Blondie's followers anyway? & if you say the La's, I don't see how that's a bad thing. And the Jam -- I'd rather blame Weller's later work, which, indeed, was crap.

― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Billy Joel is a blight upon my musical experience.

― Dan Perry, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Forgive him "Big Shot" and bask in "Piano Man".

― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I used to really be obsessed with Billy Joel when I was very young... maybe 10 or 11. Of course, when I grew up and got Taste In Music, I decried such things as being juvenile folly.

But the other day, in the back of a taxi, fuming mad at my significant other, the song "My Life" came on. It just completely fit my mood and my headset at that particular moment and expressed what I couldn't, and isn't that what good music is supposed to do?

So maybe there is some aesthetic worth in that after all.

I can see how The Jam's influence should be scraped from modern rock, as he is the Modfather of Dad-Rock and we wouldn't have the Oasis Weller Scene without him. But Blondie? That seems to me rather an odd choice.

― Kate the Saint, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Radiohead. They've made it impossible for any new UK bands to be anything but badly-dressed boys wailing constantly, saying nothing of any import. Muse, Starsailor, Coldplay, ad nauseam.

Wouldn't you say Jeff Buckley has a lot more to do with that growing trend? Most of these bands engage in direct ripoffs of Grace. And while I really liked Jeff, I'd say that his influence is far more responsible for this bland wailing.
On another note, I hope Radiohead are eventually responsible for making some complacent bands want to try something different.
Influence and inspiration are hard to separate from imitation and hero worship and record company avarice in signing talentless soundalikes. Like, yes, the Beatles have thousands of bands that poorly try to approximate them all the time. But at the same time, even if you don't like The Beatles, it inspired a lot of bands to want to experiment more.

― Melissa W, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Whatever? Blaming the MUSICIANS? Blame the press dopes that write about them.

Lester Bangs. The man that launched a million mouths (that had absolutely nothing to say). Made music writing cool. Now everyone's trying to show off their cleverness, to the detriment of their subjects. (Speaking of base generalizations...)

(Of course, this thread is nonsense. The "blame" rests with the interpreters, not the innovators. Always has, always will.)

(And I'm pleasantly surprised someone wasn't "smart" enough to offer up Robert Johnson, or the first neanderthal to bang on a log, or even God. It's His fault!)

― David Raposa, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Indeed, Mr. Raposa. Just cos hundreds of idiots want to ape a band, doesn't mean that the original is bad.

― DG, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Good bands spawn many evil things, yes, but they shouldn't be blamed for them in the end.

― Andy, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Asking me to bask in "Piano Man" is on the same level as asking me to drive 12-inch spikes through my nuts. There are a couple of his songs I can deal with; "Piano Man" is NOT one of them.

― Dan Perry, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm amazed we've got this far into the thread without a mention of Van Morrison!!!! Or for that matter, Jim Morrison.

Old Fart!!!!!

― Old Fart!!!!, Wednesday, 8 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Beastie Boys. Public Enemy. Run-DMC. Black Box. LL Cool J. Ice-T. Simply Red. Iron Maiden. Snap. De La Soul. Soul II Soul. Led Zeppelin.

The usual list of garbage, really.

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 8 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I agree with Andy. If there are "too many Indians, and not enough Chiefs," then we need more Chiefs, not less.

― bnw, Wednesday, 8 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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