Why are British pop stars so much more effete than their American counterparts?

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1960s:
Mick Jagger camping it up
Pink Floyd - Syd Barret era
Austin Powers-style frilly shirts

1970s
Glam, Bowie, need I say more?

1980s
New Romantics, synth pop bands, need I say more?

1990s
Boy bands, weedy indy singers, Coldplay, Radiohead...

― Beavis, Friday, 8 August 2003 11:58 (twenty-two years ago)

EMF

― CNWB, Friday, 8 August 2003 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

A good old-fashioned British tradition of eccentricity?

A reaction to / against the normally reserved / repressed British demeanour?

Because they don't feel the same need to be scared of mindless homophobic jocks and rednecks as their US counterparts?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

― Susan (Susan), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

diet probably

― dave q, Friday, 8 August 2003 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Very good point Susan, I hadn't thought of it in those terms before; so would you say rock music became an outlet for a pre-existing flamboyant tendency to re-emerge and reassert itself after the privations of WWII, rationing etc.?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

There might be something in that, Stewart. Although the dandy never went away in Britain, think of all those classical actors from the 40s and 50s, Guilgud, Olivier, Laurence Harvey etc., all dandies whether they were gay or straight.

― Susan (Susan), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

How could we forget Morrissey

― CNWB, Friday, 8 August 2003 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

How could we forget Lemmy.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:39 (twenty-two years ago)

**How could we forget Lemmy.**

That raving poof?

― Susan (Susan), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Well sure, yeah, Lemmy. With any vast generalization, there are always gonna be plenty of exceptions. But it's pretty easy to imagine an American Lemmy. It's impossible to imagine an American Morrissey.

― Beavis, Friday, 8 August 2003 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I think gender and class are to British pop what race is to American pop - a source of transgressive energy.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:49 (twenty-two years ago)

ILM science has proved that Axl = American Morrissey.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

... I thought Eminem was the American Morrissey

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Or Kurt. Or Liberace.

(JtN Susan etc are on the money btw, I'm not doubting the thesis.)

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

James Hetfield is. (Whatta name, eh?)

― dave q, Friday, 8 August 2003 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

or ilm-fave scott walker.

― scott seward, Friday, 8 August 2003 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i always found dave lee roth a bit effete. but in a good way, it makes him far more interesting

morrissy + crotch stuffing + gold lame jumpsuits = dave lee roth?

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Michael Jackson?!?!??!??!??!?!??!!!!!!!?!??!?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there a British Bruce Springsteen?

― Beavis, Friday, 8 August 2003 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

American Morrissey = Sisqo

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Little Richard, anyone?

― pauls00, Friday, 8 August 2003 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there a British Bruce Springsteen?

I sincerely hope not, the American one is repulsive enough

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 8 August 2003 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Moby vs Donovan

― dave q, Friday, 8 August 2003 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Morrissey is also the British Bruce Springsteen.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 8 August 2003 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

moby vs jason donovan would probably be more interesting.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 8 August 2003 13:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Little Richard is pretty camp, he comes the closest to the Jagger/Bowie type paradigm where you can be camp without necessarily being gay. Michael Jackson? He's not camp, he's not funny, I don't know what he is, but he doesn't fit in here.

― Susan (Susan), Friday, 8 August 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there a British Bruce Springsteen?

Yeah... Steven Patrick Morrissey.. .damn, beaten by Tom

― CNWB, Friday, 8 August 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Little Richard is pretty camp, he comes the closest to the Jagger/Bowie type paradigm where you can be camp without necessarily being gay

Little Richard is gay

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 8 August 2003 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

but liberace is the ghey though

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 8 August 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Tiny Tim anyone?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 8 August 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, if Morrissey is the British Bruce Springsteen, I think there's no further need to argue with my initial proposition.

― Beavis, Friday, 8 August 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

james brown was very sexual in both a hetero and homo erotic way. he could pretty much turn anyone on.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 8 August 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Liberace, Little Richard, Tiny Tim etc... yes there are many gay, queeny performers in America. I was more interested in why STRAIGHT(ish) British pop stars tend to be more effete than American ones.

― Beavis, Friday, 8 August 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

'Tunnel of Love' = 'Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others'

― CNWB, Friday, 8 August 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe it's a problem with White America, a lot of black male performers have and do flirt with androgyny (especially vocally), flamboyance, dandyism, whatever.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 8 August 2003 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

i direct you to a little something that we in the states used to call glam-metal.

― scott seward, Friday, 8 August 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Alice Cooper. I mean, how camp can a straight white American man be?

― Zed, Friday, 8 August 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Seattle - As Kurt Cobain walks into the living room of his rented house, he's made an odd choice in clothing. The most important new voice in American rock in years is wearing a black thigh-length thrift-store dress over flannel long johns.

"Wearing a dress shows I can be as feminine as I want," he says, in a jab at the macho undercurrents that he detests in rock. "I'm a heterosexual . . . big deal. But if I was a homosexual, it wouldn't matter either."

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 8 August 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

[img]http://www153.pair.com/mayhem/sryper4.JPG[/img]

― Zed, Friday, 8 August 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

MICHAEL STIPE TO THREAD!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 August 2003 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

We've got this far without mentioning Prince?!

― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 8 August 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.omroep.nl/nos/specials/jaaroverzicht2001/afbeelding_redactie/165/bunker_archie.jpg
England is a FAG country.

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 8 August 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I suspect that if Duane Allman came to the studio in drag and eyeliner, the rest of the drunken band would hammer his ass into the ground like a nail.
But, strangely, this does not explain why Glenn Frey and Joe Walsh never kicked Don Henley's scrawny ass for having that big fruity 'fro back in the mid 70s.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 8 August 2003 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

http://home.att.ne.jp/surf/ohba/image/Rob10.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/310000/images/_313504_freddie_mercury150.jpg

The secret to being a tough, manly British singer is to be gay.

― dleone (dleone), Friday, 8 August 2003 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.rebelpeddler.com/kerrang/rockstars/as.jpg
"Huh?"

― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 8 August 2003 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

http://senrs.com/_borders/bb2002-02-18-elton-i.jpg

"You heard me!"

― dleone (dleone), Friday, 8 August 2003 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuck, Brian Molko is American!

― David A. (Davant), Friday, 8 August 2003 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

But, strangely, this does not explain why Glenn Frey and Joe Walsh never kicked Don Henley's scrawny ass for having that big fruity 'fro back in the mid 70s.

Actually, Don Henley just inhaling and exhaling is reason enough for an extended and violent beating.

― Bruce Urquhart (Bruce Urquhart), Friday, 8 August 2003 20:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Henley: "Hey, where's that Peaceful Easy Feeling?"
Urquhart: THWACK! THWACK! THWACK!

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 8 August 2003 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh dear. Are you all 15? FFS grow up.

― Reginald Dellos Tools (regtools), Friday, 8 August 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

― Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Today on The Buckmasters Huntin' and Fishin' Show, we have Mans Man* and all around roughneck Neal Tennant...he's gonna show us how a real man 'shoots his freshly oiled rifle' and later on, he'll show us how he deals with freshly jerked venison.

* Note = If a 'Ladies Man' is hot for the ladies, then a 'Man's Man'...

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 9 August 2003 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Brits wanna be Artur Rimbaud
Americans wanna be John Rambo
Theres a lesson in this for all of us.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 9 August 2003 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, we should all kill ourselves now.

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Sunday, 10 August 2003 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

wait a minute i know the answer to this one! it's because they're all POOFTERS!! hahahahahahaha. ha.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 10 August 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, it's not that simple. Alot of straight Brit musicians seem kinda swishy, alot of American gay musicians seem mostly straightish.
Wouldn't you, after looking at a picture of Duran Duran, assume they were all a big, juicy fruit salad?
Wouldn't you, after looking at a members of Husker Du, assume they were
all straight?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 10 August 2003 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200_web/drp100/p170/p17024q9b2e.jpg
Okay...bad example.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 10 August 2003 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: Tony Iommi vs Allan Jones

― dave q, Sunday, 10 August 2003 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: Tony Iommi vs Allan Jones
The showtunes guy

Offtopic: I always thought that the young Tony Iommi looked like an 'Evil Version' of George Harrison. Is there an evil version of his bandmates? If so, they should form a band. That is all. We now return you to the thread already in progress.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 10 August 2003 23:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Carry on being funny by all means but I have to say this is the first I've encountered Susan hereabouts and her first post is totally OTM--welcome aboard! Stay awhile!

― M Matos (M Matos), Sunday, 10 August 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Because there's a whole tradition of dandyism in England that goes back to the eighteenth century. That's not the case in America, where concepts of masculinity were moulded more by the frontier experience.
M Matos is OTM about Susan being OTM.
The above goes far in explaining why Brits aspire to be Oscar Wilde and Americans aspire to be Mark Twain (or in hopeless cases, Andrew Jackson.)
Robert Persig has a theory that Americans we're changed by our contact with the Native Americans. (ie Europeans value glib verbosity, Americans revere stoic earthiness.*)

* Note = Granted, Persig's theory is all about how Europeans/Americans Talk, not how we sing, play our 'instruments' or put on makeup before getting onstage.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 10 August 2003 23:57 (twenty-two years ago)

seriously i meant the UNCUT guy

― dave q, Monday, 11 August 2003 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

waitasec...something just dawned on me....
The Question "Why are British pop stars so much more effete than their American counterparts?" Assumes that each American musician has a British counterpart; who is pretty much the same as the American version, just not as butch*

*Note = By 'Butch' I mean the American versions is more of a truck-driving lesbian whereas the British version is a floucing sissyboy nelly.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 11 August 2003 00:53 (twenty-two years ago)

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