What's the best bit of music writing you've read this year?

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I think it's a toss-up between Marcello on KLF and Sasha Frere-Jones on Led Zeppelin (no, not because I'm a big Zep freak, but because SFJ is a very perceptive listener with a wonderful command of language).

I also heartily enjoyed Jon Dale's recent two part Royal Trux overview (he's a great writer and posted here for a spell - where'd you go, JD?) and Eddy's White Stripes review (really makes me wish he'd get out of the editor's chair more often).

But then, I probably don't trawl the blogs and rags as voraciously as some here. So what else was good? What have I missed?

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 8 August 2003 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

The return of Freaky Trigger in general! Except for my article, you can ignore that.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 8 August 2003 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

wTF THIS BORED IS CALLED "I LOVE MUSIC:" THAT IS SO MESSED UP BCUZ YOU OBLIVIOUSLY DONT LISTEN TO ***REAL** MUSIC!!!!!!!! DAVE IS THE MOST TALENTID MUSIC PERSON EVER SINCE THE ROLLING STONES AND IF U DONT BELIEVE ME JUST LISTEN TO SOMEHTING BY HIM
OR IF U THINK UR AGLEGDLY TOO "COOL" 4 DMB THEN JUST FUCK OFF AND LISTEN TO UR CRAP "INDY" MUSIC LOL OK WHATEVER

DIEEEEEEEEE

-- DMB (DM...), July 15th, 2003 11:13 PM.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 8 August 2003 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I vote for Mark Prindle's much MUCH needed and OTM bashing of one of the worst records ever made.

Evan (Evan), Friday, 8 August 2003 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, someone FINALLY gave that record a bad review

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 8 August 2003 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

sasha frere-jones on zep takes cake though if I could see a transcription of ego trip: live at emp that might

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 8 August 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

No, finally someone recognized it as being one of the worst records ever, like ASTONISHINGLY godawful. Every single review I've seen of it just gives it the mediocre two or two-and-a-half stars and calls it merely "better in theory than in practice" (All-Music Guide) or "Making records may not be her strong suit anymore" (Rolling Stone).

Or "It wouldn't be wildly inappropriate to identify American Life as an early 21st-century update of Love's Forever Changes, effecting as it does a similarly eerie ambivalence with its fusion of mind-altering sonics and mellow acoustics." UNCUT JUST COMPARED AMERICAN LIFE TO FOREVER FUCKING CHANGES!!! Grrr. Twats! Twats!

Evan (Evan), Friday, 8 August 2003 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

spot on in that they both represent artists past their peak, too enamored of hippy philosophy and acoustic guitars

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 8 August 2003 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

...and paranoia.

David. (Cozen), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Evan - how many times have you listened to the album?

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I've read a ton of good stuff this year - more than last year but then I've been paying more attention. Not sure what the best bit is. If it counts as a 'bit' then Matthew Ingram's blog has been amazing - an incredible depth of music knowledge, OK fine plenty like that on the Interweb but managing to be the opposite of an arsehole when writing about it is much much rarer. And it's really funny!

(I have just realised that the opposite of an arsehole is a mouth. Oh well, I like the phrase.)

Tom (Groke), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

What I really like about Matt is that he is an arsehole! OK, he's not (principally because a. he's not and b. I like him) but he is a terrible (by which, 'good', obv.) hipster.

I can't think of anything to link to which I've really, really loved this year. I've been happy with the things I've written (tATu, Colleen, Alasdair Roberts, Barbara Morgenstern) and I really like Spizzazzz (still) and Tim Finney's Coloma article. Apart from that, the absence of FT or any spine of magazines is noticable felt. (Frank Kogan's Contortions article was great too, though.)

David. (Cozen), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Evan - how many times have you listened to the album?

once

Evan (Evan), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Just realised, err, I should really qualify that, I do not think Matt is anything other than insanely well learned and full of ideas. (Really funny and HTML-adept too and a nice guy into the bargain, he provided me with 2 CDs stuffed with, err, 'Grime' ew ew). But I do get this nagging sense with him that he is some sort of gentle antithesis to the FT aesthetic (inasmuch as that isn't a meaningless phrase) - immersed, fanatical, at the edges, slightly reticent about pop love etc.

David. (Cozen), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:20 (twenty-two years ago)

man I got into Madonna when "Burnin' Up" was new but I am continually mystified by how anyone, anywhere, could possibly give two shits about what she's up to...it's like people getting excited about a new Paul McCartney solo record or something

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah David I still love Spizzazz obviously.

I'm getting quite fond of hipsters these days. I blame ARE Weapons. And antitheses are good! I like reading a blog where I think "well he'd disagree with me a lot but at least he wouldn't think I'm a cunt."

Now the relaunch is all sorted out I can hopefully get on with writing some of the things I've been trying to goad myself into.

Tom (Groke), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

spizzazz is great

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

(I am turning into a total hipster. Without the knowledge. Or skillz.)

Spizzazzz is just a real, real joy.

I look forward to reading Tom Ewing again.

Maybe I can get around to writing for FT again eventually if I'm welcome / I can write better than I have in the past.

David. (Cozen), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

David you're welcome. The New FT would publish almost everything the Old FT did happily.

Tom (Groke), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm getting a little upset at how vehemently people hate American Life. I don't think I've read a truly postitive thing about it anywhere. This isn't going to stop me from liking it, though.

Sean (Sean), Friday, 8 August 2003 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Writing online isnt' as stressful as writing for pay but it still can feel very competetive and full of pressure.

Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 August 2003 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I also really liked the following--

Yanc3y on Mono in City Pages:
http://citypages.com/databank/24/1172/article11268.asp

Matthew Wilder on Madonna in CP:
http://www.citypages.com/databank/24/1174/article11297.asp

Joe Gross on Malkmus in the Village Voice:
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0313/gross.php

Sasha on The New Pornographers in Slate:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2083366/


Kate Silver (Kate Silver), Saturday, 9 August 2003 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't read much in terms of reviews and think pieces and what I have read hasn't amazed me or anything. Don't read much on blogs either but I enjoyed marcello's piece on Stockhausen.

I think what I enjoyed lots was j0hn's thread abt R kelly's remix single and why it was so great. that was a lot of fun for me as i posted a bit on that but I enjoyed his reasoning in the early part of the thread and made my appreciation of the song increase 100 fold (I think when i first heard it I ddin't like it and then it turned to yes I like it to now I love this).

As far as interviews: as I only read the wire the most I've enjoyed was the interviews with Mauricio Kagel and Alan Silva.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 9 August 2003 09:15 (twenty-two years ago)

The Eddie Prevost interview in Wire was pretty good. Prevost actually had something acute, insightful and critical to say about music - the ability to write critically seeming to be beyond the ken of 99.99999% of music critics these days. But then Eddie is simultaneously more intelligent and less self-important than 99.99999% of music critics.

Dadaismus (Dada), Saturday, 9 August 2003 11:19 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i liked that one as well. I look forward to reading his new book (whenever that gets published).

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 9 August 2003 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Sasha's take on the Zep record has a few too many parentheticals for my taste, but overall, yeah, it's great.

Chuck's take on the Stripes was also very, very good.

From there, it's tough to say -- criticism in general sucks now. Between the Blenderizing of the industry and the sheer volume of music crimping the time for style, tis not a good time for serious criticism.

But a couple others I've enjoyed:
Phil Freeman on Metallica for the Cleveland Scene:
http://www.clevescene.com/issues/2003-05-28/music.html/1/index.html

Joe Gross' little one on the Drive-By Truckers/Kings of Leon for Spin.

Then, and I'm not shy or non-shameless about this at all, there've been some really nice ones my writers for the Phoenix New Times have completed. We have the best alt-weekly reviews section in the country (not counting the Voice, which is a Bible). Demos:

Joy Hepp on Fiction Plane: http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2003-03-27/recordings2.html/1/index.html

Mikael Wood on that terrible Madonna record (He likes it!! And makes a good case!!):
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2003-05-08/moltenwax.html/1/index.html

Piotr Orlov on Madlib:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2003-08-07/moltenwax2.html/1/index.html

O'C on Cat Power:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2003-02-20/moltenwax2.html/1/index.html

Chris O'Connor, Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I read a great bio of Stephen Foster! [/crank]

I like J0hn's posts.

amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i honestly don't see what's so good about 75% of the links posted on this thread so far. (my top two pieces this year: kogan's contortions review and sasha's zeppelin review. and that's the ONLY two.)

blogs are an utter waste of time right now. i find most of them (especially spizzazzz which has taken the whole faux-naif thing out the otherside until I'm not actually convinced it's not real-naif...which I guess in context is some sort of achievement. but not one i really want to subject myself to on a daily basis. e crunk is the only one who can pull it off because he occasionally allows a sliver of his adult voice to come through.)

i don't think anything i've published this year has been particularly great either, mind you.

i have really high hope for the FT re-launch. and nylpm is hopping again, nominally, but still a little too dry as compared with the old days.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i was pretty happy with the bug review, i guess, but again, it's a matter of attempting to get some actual thought motion going within 800 words while still being able to, like, describe the record and fix the context and stuff.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow, that Sasha write-up from Slate on the New Poronographers is great! Put that one in the lead position ...

Chris O'Connor, Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:39 (twenty-two years ago)

also, phew, but some of the links posted here are GODAWFUL

(i'm trying to be tactful and not say which)

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:45 (twenty-two years ago)

this "tact" is an interesting concept, please elaborate.

amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i think elaboration would sorta give the game away

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:48 (twenty-two years ago)

it's also code for "it's 2:52 am pst, and jess ISN'T drunk and is on ilm and is therefore biting his tongue whereas otherwise he'd be bout it bout it"

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:49 (twenty-two years ago)

it's just the latent catholic in me

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:49 (twenty-two years ago)

does it involve scotch tape?

amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:49 (twenty-two years ago)

it's been acting up all day. like earlier i got all freaked out when someone threw a bible on the ground. wtf?!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:49 (twenty-two years ago)

it involves that sticky blue shit you use to hang up posters that never scrapes off when you're ready to move

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:50 (twenty-two years ago)

used but once, blu-tak
belongs to the ages: art
as i know/use it

mark s (mark s), Sunday, 10 August 2003 09:14 (twenty-two years ago)

its writing posts as haiku part of the summer madness that has taken over this board.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 10 August 2003 09:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Here's another vote for SFJ on Zep. It was a tough piece of music to tackle, but he set his tone and argument and really did a fantastic job. Very smooth read. Not once did I have to re-read a previous sentence. I also liked Jon Parales' live review of the Summer Sanitarium tour with Metallica and Bizkit et. al. Aside from being a brilliant writer, the guy can be funny as hell.

Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Sunday, 10 August 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

its writing posts as haiku part of the summer madness that has taken over this board.

Summer Madness is
My favorite Kool & the
Gang song Julio

Andy K (Andy K), Sunday, 10 August 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Summer Breeze is
my favorite Seals and Crofts
song. (But...a ring tone?)

amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 10 August 2003 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

summers eve is my
favorite feminine pro-
duct tv commercial.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

the Toure Q&A with ?uestlove in the new issue of The Believer is really great--lively, informed, entertaining as hell.

if I can vote for stuff I edited: http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0330/music-animal.php -- Rod Smith on the Animal Collective inna A.A. Milne stylee.

M Matos (M Matos), Sunday, 10 August 2003 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

also, Douglas Wolk's giant piece on Clear Channel in Time Out New York deserves mention: http://www.timeoutny.com/features/406/406.clearchannel.html

M Matos (M Matos), Sunday, 10 August 2003 18:06 (twenty-two years ago)

wow, I don't have time @ the moment to scan all these, but that Sasah F-J article on the New Pornographers, a band I'd kind of dismissed (not b/c they're not good, but b/c what they do doesn't appeal to me) really is tops, thoughtful, precise, great writing.
Is Destroyer worth a listen?

daria g (daria g), Sunday, 10 August 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...
shit damn i really wanted to read that royal trux overview again, BUT THE SITE IS DOWN. i just discovered the brilliance of veterans of disorder (after not listening 2 it for 3 or 4 years cause i thought it was mediocre). now i can't stop playing it.

justin (Justin M), Sunday, 19 October 2003 07:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Justin, did you know that Jon has a new blog here? The Royal Trux piece isn't up there, but if you e-mail Jon I bet he'll be able to help you out.

Angus Gordon (angusg), Sunday, 19 October 2003 07:51 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.furious.com/perfect/bangseno.html

Russ, Monday, 20 October 2003 02:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Poor Mod(erator), too trusting of quiet technologies.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 12:29 (eleven years ago)

It's easy to ignore "Tumblr" as a thing. It's also easy to ignore "Facebook" and "Twitter" and "Social media" in general, as things.

But, partly because things like Tumblr are safe from the prying parental eyes of "old dudes that don't get it" means, I think, that expressions of identity there are likely to be safer and freer - and resultantly, perhaps more genuine?

And also, while it is possible to ignore "Tumblr" as a thing, I think it's increasingly impossible to ignore the effects of social media - like Tumblr - on political discourse. Be that social justice, UK Uncut, the Arab Spring or Gamergate. His ISIS quip is just him being a cnut, but he's really kind of displaying his ignorance of how people use tools whose existence he's blissfully unaware of.

Jacques Lacan let me rock u; let me rock u, Jacques Lacan (Branwell with an N), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 12:33 (eleven years ago)

people used to listen to music. now they just listen to computers

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 12:42 (eleven years ago)

70 year old man in not understanding or appreciating the modern world shocker.

... and a Martin Parr photo essay (Tom D.), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 12:55 (eleven years ago)

there's some answer in here that relates to the "youthing" of modern society as a whole i guess but nobody needs to read what a grumpy 45 year-old dude has to say about that

― The Falun Gong Show (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 11:44 (1 hour ago) Permalink

I was thinking recently that a key change is that we no longer necessarily conceive of the adult in culture as a parent. This has contributed more than anything else to the "youthing of modern society", and also the disintegration of strong generational divides w/r/t "the kids".

Tim F, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 12:57 (eleven years ago)

"kidult"

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 13:07 (eleven years ago)

Here we are with the world in the state it is in, and we’ve got Roger Daltrey. Where are the authority figures with any real sense of outrage and purpose? There are no parents at the moment: we had Lee De Forest and then there was Mary Whitehouse, but it’s so hard to start a fight now.

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 13:15 (eleven years ago)

Is Tumblr really a youth movement? Strikes me more as a platform rather than a specific movement. And surely blogging about counter-culture, social justice etc is more in line with the 25-45 y/o demographic? Not that young people don't blog, but a bunch of kids sitting behind their laptops doesn't really feel like an active 'shaking-up' of society (assuming that's what Daltrey is banging on about in his quote which has now been reduced and extrapolated way beyond what he probably meant to say in the first place).

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 13:19 (eleven years ago)

It's true that the generational gap has been bridged a fair bit and now parents are happy to pay for tattoos on their kids' 18th birthdays while middle-managers listening to black metal isn't anything particularly strange. But surely there is a common enemy out there still? I figure that really it's because rebellion was turned into money a long time ago and now the idea of rebellion is greeted with derision. One of the main criticisms of the ongoing Brand saga is that his message is an empty recap of sixties counter-culture or 6th form politics - Che Guevara t-shirt wearing nonsense which proved ultimately impotent in the long run. People 'who march' are seen as timewasters and nuisances - exercisers of pointlessness. Counter-cultures are assimilated by the corporate mainstream until they make little sense at all. But is that really true? IF there had been no rock'n'roll counter-culture in the 60s, 70s and 80s, would all these doors be open; would the generational gap still be so narrow? Is it possible that *gasp* both sides of the youth vs adult cultural war won?

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 13:27 (eleven years ago)

people used to listen to music. now they just listen to computers

― Shepard Toney Album (dog latin)

^^ sung in the voice of Don Henley

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 13:28 (eleven years ago)

Is Tumblr really a youth movement? Strikes me more as a platform rather than a specific movement.

It is a platform that is FULL of youth movements, or rather, of youths performing identity and tribal aspects of identity in a way that I think even a (20-something version of Daltry) would recognise as movements.

And it slants *young*. Like, I get really freaked out too many times, when I mutually follow someone because of some mutual interest, and then in one of their posts, they start talking about "exams" and I think "college" but then another post reveals, no, they're in high school. That freaks me out a bit because I feel like *I'm* encroaching on their territory, like, I do believe that young people deserve a safe space away from their parents in which to form their identity.

It's also a good reminder that although for many people, the "generational gap" has been bridged, and blah blah parents paying for tattoos and listening to black metal together, that there are still many, many issues that young people face that are *not* bridged yet - e.g. young people being thrown out of family homes for being gay or being trans etc. It's a very blunt reminder that "there is no generation gap" is a highly privileged position to be able to take.

Jacques Lacan let me rock u; let me rock u, Jacques Lacan (Branwell with an N), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:01 (eleven years ago)

Capitalism is doing its damndest to bridge the generation gap but it's not there yet.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:08 (eleven years ago)

xpost I agree - the gap is narrower in many aspects that well, parents aren't worried their children are going to become satanists because they listen to Kiss or what have you, but there's still a lot to be fighting for and standing up to. Maybe the main difference is that this isn't being reflected in music so much as it is on Tumblr, social media etc?

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:10 (eleven years ago)

Perhaps the question isn't whether 'youth culture'/'counter culture' exists, but whether music is still the most valid platform for this to centre around? Music in the 20th century always seemed so central to so many forms of rebellion, it could almost be seen as the platform and catalyser of so many counter-cultural movements. Where would the Rastafari movement be without music for example? It probably wouldn't exist beyond a small hilltop community. And the number of people who were inspired by scenes like punk, riot grrrl, hip hop as a force for change. These are undeniable. But does music do this any more? Do people congregate around a music scene in order to evoke political and social change in the same way they did?

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:18 (eleven years ago)

Music didn't seem central to rebellion, or youth culture, in the 20th century; it seemed central to some youth cultures between 1956 and... I dunno, pick a date. 2002. 2008. 1999. A period of about 50 years. Now there's other stuff that young people are into 9there always was, but there might be more now, as driven by technology). Snapchat. Tumblr. Computer games. Whatever.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:24 (eleven years ago)

there's some answer in here that relates to the "youthing" of modern society as a whole i guess but nobody needs to read what a grumpy 45 year-old dude has to say about that

― The Falun Gong Show (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 11:44 (1 hour ago) Permalink

I was thinking recently that a key change is that we no longer necessarily conceive of the adult in culture as a parent. This has contributed more than anything else to the "youthing of modern society", and also the disintegration of strong generational divides w/r/t "the kids".

― Tim F, Wednesday, October 29, 2014 12:57 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think there are a lot of ways in which social expectations have changed that have lessened the sense of tribal allegiance based on age esp wrt culture. the 60s&70s sorts are myopic if they don't realize that they themselves (with their apparently life-long expertise on adolescence) are what's different in the landscape. lots of those teenhood values are more universalized, being ~a teenager~ doesn't have so much cultural import

ogmor, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:34 (eleven years ago)

Rereading a Raymond Carver story this a.m. I noticed a 61-year-old character referred to as "an old man."

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:35 (eleven years ago)

it all leads back to normcore

ogmor, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:37 (eleven years ago)

i mean, if you frame it in the terms in my last post, that's kind of where the journalist's argument falls a bit flat and daltrey's argument starts to make more sense. How exactly did Amy Winehouse, Pulp, Prince and St Vincent (much as I enjoy these) inspire movements in the societal or youth-culture sense on the scale of mod or punk? By comparison, Mod culture was a genuine movement - it excited working class teenagers and frightened authority figures. It catalysed and civil unrest. And while you might get a soundsystem playing dance music or dancehall at a protest, this acts more like background music for the action rather than the central reasoning behind it. it's very likely that computer games and blogging platforms have taken over from music; and for good reason - but daltrey isn't really talking about blogs and computer games, is he? he's talking about music as a force for cultural and societal change.

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:38 (eleven years ago)

Music didn't seem central to rebellion, or youth culture, in the 20th century; it seemed central to some youth cultures between 1956 and... I dunno, pick a date. 2002. 2008. 1999. A period of about 50 years. Now there's other stuff that young people are into 9there always was, but there might be more now, as driven by technology). Snapchat. Tumblr. Computer games. Whatever.

― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:24 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

music as counter culture didn't begin in 1956.

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:39 (eleven years ago)

he's talking about music as a force for cultural and societal change.

two words: Mackluh. More.

sleepingbag, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:46 (eleven years ago)

xpost but you're right, not all music in C20 = rebellion, which is the important thing to consider. One Direction are not a rebellious or counter-cultural band as far as I know, which is why Daltrey's argument seems so ridiculous and cloud-shouting on first read. That said, I find it harder and harder to think of an act that really is attempting to shake things up in the ways outlined upthread.

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:49 (eleven years ago)

then again, I don't pay that much attention to pop and youth music, so i could be wrong. I know Macklemore is totally ridiculous, but I'm sure there are loads of pop and country icons currently singing about social issues in a more constructive way.

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:50 (eleven years ago)

were 'punk' and 'mod' really more culturally influential than 'edm' or 'any other genre of music'? these things are all 'noise that annoys yr parents' + 'fashion', right? was punk really 'more' than that? is lady gaga really 'less' than that?

sleepingbag, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:54 (eleven years ago)

Punk yes, mod no.

... and a Martin Parr photo essay (Tom D.), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 14:59 (eleven years ago)

punk was a bunch of white ppl slumming it

sleepingbag, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:02 (eleven years ago)

history of rock and roll in 9 words

The Falun Gong Show (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:02 (eleven years ago)

except not really

The Falun Gong Show (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:02 (eleven years ago)

hardly anybody saw those early punk shows but everybody who did wanked on and on and on and on and on about it

The Falun Gong Show (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:04 (eleven years ago)

so Tom is correct in the kinda sense that Punk ruined popular music writing forever

The Falun Gong Show (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:04 (eleven years ago)

'gen x vastly overstates the "importance" of punk rock' is not a challop it is a challtruth

sleepingbag, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:04 (eleven years ago)

hey i'm agreeing with you but without the iffy race/class bits

The Falun Gong Show (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:05 (eleven years ago)

xpost to sleepingbag
It's a good point, and yes it's easy to boil down punk into 'noise that annoys', but I'd say there was reasoning behind punk (at least for a while) that accompanied and spurred along alternative political ideas for quite a few years after; and that would manifest itself later through things like Crass, riot grrrl movement etc and onto the left/anarchist/feminist movements. compare that to EDM which seems to be more about getting a load of brat middle-class kids drunk in a stadium. Not saying all punk was political or that it wasn't beyond marketing or corporatism, but I feel as though there's a difference. Same with Mod - it was a banner disenchanted working class kids grouped behind. It incited physical rebellion in the form of the seaside clashes - aimless as they were. But I don't see how EDM even comes close to the kind of anti-establishment ethic of those earlier movements.

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:06 (eleven years ago)

challop = "challtruth" though iirc? it means "yes, very good, everybody knows that, congratulations on blowing so many minds"

The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:08 (eleven years ago)

that's one of the 2 definitions of challop, the useful one

keep the meat alive: pampas grass (wins), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:09 (eleven years ago)

(xxp) You don't know much, if anything, about Mods, do you?

... and a Martin Parr photo essay (Tom D.), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:11 (eleven years ago)

your display name, dear god wins

pecker shrivellage (imago), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:12 (eleven years ago)

yeah soz I've been meaning to change

keep the meat alive: pampas grass (wins), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:14 (eleven years ago)

no, it's all approval

pecker shrivellage (imago), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:17 (eleven years ago)

Daltrey has proudly and repeatedly stated that he's never, ever used a computer. If someone mentioned Tumblr to him, he wouldn't know what you're talking about.

(also, he never trashed a hotel room; he always went to sleep right after shows)

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:27 (eleven years ago)

(xxp) You don't know much, if anything, about Mods, do you?

― ... and a Martin Parr photo essay (Tom D.), Wednesday, October 29, 2014 3:11 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I wasn't alive in the sixties, if that's what you mean, but I've read up on a lot of what apparently and allegedly went on at the time. Obv, it's all stuff seen through the eyes of the day's media - Mods'n'rockers exhibitions in Margate displaying newspaper stories on hysterical par with the London riots, interviews with mods and rockers etc... So I know a wee bit, but no, I have no first hand experience of the mod movement.

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:31 (eleven years ago)

Daltrey has proudly and repeatedly stated that he's never, ever used a computer

shame townshend didn't try this defense

keep the meat alive: pampas grass (wins), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:32 (eleven years ago)

All these things, of course, are blown out of proportion; old fuckers talking about their youth as if it was big and important, when in fact it was probably just a media constructed excuse for weasely little oiks to kick some bins over. But it's just as easy to look back on any youth movement as an adult and go 'well that's just a load of empty sloganeering and meaningless gestures; how did that change society?' as it is to disparage today's pop music as being 'worthless'.

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:34 (eleven years ago)

If Daltrey doesn't use a computer at all in 2014 then how the fuck does he have any idea wtf is going on with youth culture? stfu old luddite.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:36 (eleven years ago)

he watches X Factor. that's all it is now these days isn't it? it's all Simon Cowell and Bros and all that

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:39 (eleven years ago)

You're way off the mark if you think bros are into X Factor.

Position Position, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 15:54 (eleven years ago)

doglatin, why are you wasting time arguing with someone who thinks punk was nbd? It's depressing and ignorant to downplay the real significance of certain movements. Better to champion the significance of ones that don't get as much attention.

Re-Make/Re-Model, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 16:19 (eleven years ago)

doglatin, why are you wasting time arguing with someone who thinks punk was nbd?

bored at work TBH.

Shepard Toney Album (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 16:34 (eleven years ago)

Funny that mod was once an anti-retro movement. Continually trying to keep with the moment instead of looking at an ideal(ised) past.
&there hasn't been a single unifying youth movement since punk has there? Seemed to be something of a result of punk the amount of differing youth movements from then on, at least initially.

Stevolende, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 18:22 (eleven years ago)

feel like one of the main legacies of punk is that the amount of subgroups that formed as a result of it, and more often than not violently hated each other, made plain that a "unifying youth movement" is all but impossible in practice

well-behaved wingmen really hate Mystery (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 29 October 2014 18:36 (eleven years ago)


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