50 and ma$e

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after all the haterade on ilm this is the thread to give dap to 50 and ma$e for their various rappin delights

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 00:52 (twenty-two years ago)

in hollywood they say there no bidness like show bidness....in the hood they say theres no bidness like HO BIDNESS!!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 00:53 (twenty-two years ago)

'did ma$e have any good beats?' FEEL SO GOOD fucker!!!! rocks from cancun to grants tomb

bonus fabo props..... 'if they want iiiit cowards get iiiit they still wonderrrr how i did iiiit...', 'i aint tryin to send police to yr rest, im tryin to put this piece to yr chest'

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 00:56 (twenty-two years ago)

'i dont wanna see you wit a carriage livin average, i wanna do my thing so we be established / and i dont want you rockin them fabrics, girl i wanna give you carats til you think you a rabbit ' - mase f total, what you want, also the strummy circular guitar beat is gorgeous

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

in the bible it says, what go around comes around / almost shot me, three weeks later HE GOT SHOT DOWN / now its clear that im here for a real reason / cuz he got hit like i got hit but he aint fuckin breathin - last verse on many men

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i had 'u not like me' on a mix before 50s album came out and i was like OBSESSED with that beat, it feels so indescribably small and futile, like a tiny wind up robot hitting a wall over and over, also like his streetest chorus ever 'you get shot and run to teh cops, you not like me'...it was the first song he did after his shooting... this verse kills me

'mama said everything happen to us was part of gods plan / so at night when i talk to him i got a gun in my hand / dont think im crazy cuz i dont fear man / cuz i fear when i kill a man, god dont understand / i got a head full of evil thoughts, am i satan?? / i been coulda killed these men, im still waitin'

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:08 (twenty-two years ago)

harlem world has the second best intro puffy ever did, which means more than it sounds cuz the ready to die intro is the greatest intro of all time, when biggie gets born and his dad shouts over the chorus of superfly i get the hairs on my arm standin up EVERY DAMN TIME.....the harlem world intro is just puff introducing mase over the isaac hayes - joy beat but it feels so gritty and cinematic i listen to it as much as any 'real' song on the album....when i make a rap album im gonna do an intro like that

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:11 (twenty-two years ago)

player way with 8ball and mjg is the clumsiest floaty fake dirty south song ever, the beat is like jay dee but good

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

THOUGHTS ON THE SUBJECT OF 'FEEL SO GOOD':

would you really want another mc on the greatest party beat of all time??? his dronelike low key monotone flow is like a neck massage or thick vanilla milkshake, anything more wouldve been overkill and destroyed the mood...even the 'do mase got the ladies' shout out bit is strangely subdued, he just hovers over the entire song giving you a couple catchy lines and jokes to smile at but never overpowering...its exactly the performance the beat demands

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

daaaaamn homie....in highskooo you was the maaaaaan homie...what the, fuck happened to you!!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

and the wanksta beat!!!!! 'ohh bitch whine whine i want real instruments, i want old soul samples, i want rap to sound like indie pop' FUCK YOU son the wanksta beat is the t-1000 of beats

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:22 (twenty-two years ago)

You can hum all you want to
Cum all you want to
But I ain't gonna want you
If nobody wants you
You like the smiles and the dimple on my face?
Bitch, that's a bullet wound-- I ain't Mase!

― d k (d k), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:26 (twenty-two years ago)

smiles and dimple on my face!!! i actually thought 50 was cuter before he went all diesel when he was chubby and goofy but hes def a better rapper now, listen to how to rob and his flow sounds kinda obnoxious even when youre laughing at the rhymes, now he does jokes but theres weight behind them in his voice

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)

been a fiend for this since rakim made hits

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:30 (twenty-two years ago)

got me confused, see, cam the freak / mase never the the nigga to bring sand to the beach

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

now im a sex SYMBO, into continentto

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:32 (twenty-two years ago)

What does the bring sand to the beach thing mean?

― d k (d k), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:34 (twenty-two years ago)

dont go out of your way to introduce an element to an enviroment that already has it in spades

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:39 (twenty-two years ago)

wickedsa theard. i dont get all the mase hate its like hes such a nice rapper, he just souns happy and humble and comfortable, i like the cautiosness of his voice like he has some wicked lije to spit but holds it back like i know its an obvious choice but that bit on mo money "an't no phd niggas hold me down cooter schooled me to the game now I know my duty stay humble stay low blow like Hootie" is such a great line that gest me excited everytime. the idea that he hads a limp as well - hes vulnerable. inllike puffy whos bigger than the city lights in times square but boring as fuck on this song. and 50 has that same lazy style where hes braggubng and shit but in an understated, humble, hapy likeable style. and i think halrem world is some of the best bad boy beats. anyway not musch poitn to this thread butbeing mash up and bu,ping mo money is like the greastes pleasure tight now. someone start a bad boy sd threa before i pass out

― sean g, Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

i meant not much poitn to this post not thread

― sean g, Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

aight i will start off a badboy thread!!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i dunno man, my problem with Wanksta is exactly that it sounds tinny and twee and sorta indie-synth-y. but think whatever you want to.

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 9 August 2003 02:08 (twenty-two years ago)

yes Ethan, anybody who doesn't like the Wanksta beat could ONLY not like it for the reasons YOU IMAGINE and MUST fit into your tiny box of "people who like diff. music than me"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 02:14 (twenty-two years ago)

never said that was the only reason, lots of heads i respect dont like it either but you gotta admit a big part of it is ppl thinking its too 'fake'

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

well yeah, but that's a valid reason! I mean one that deserves to be met head-on, instead of just being ridiculed and dismissed, which is sort of the mirror-image of "oh I hate that, it's too commercial"

NB I am all for the wanksta beat, personally

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 02:20 (twenty-two years ago)

why is hating something cuz it sounds fake a valid reason for hating something?

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh God JB do you wanna turn this into the longest thread ever? it's a valid reason because it implies, or at least suggests, a coherent aesthetic - to look at the other side of it, is liking something because it sounds fake an invalid reason for liking something? Of course not; Stephin Merritt's made an entire career of it. I think there's an idea floating around in the meme-o-sphere that begging questions of authenticity is an asked-and-answered question, and I think that (alleged) idea ain't so hot, i.e., that the guy who says "I wanna hear guitars that fucking shred" is on as solid a theoretical ground as the guy who says "I wanna hear more bass"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, but why does the person who rebuts 'it sounds fake' have to put up a stronger argument than 'so?'; should the, er, aesthetic burden be placed on the, um, prosecutor? plus fakeness or realness, unlike guitars or bass, isn't something you can actually hear - it's an abstraction you placing on/drawing out of the record.

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean I like Neil Young becuz it sounds 'real' and Junior Senior cuz it sounds 'fake' but maingly cuz they're really really good at sounding real/fake.

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

maingly?

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

that junior senior video came on at my cousins house and i thought it was tenacious d or the white stripes or something, its the worst thing ive ever seen....i cant remember the song

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:04 (twenty-two years ago)

1. the coinage of "maingly" means you win & my hat is off to you sir
2. sure, the burden's on the prosecution - in lege in vita, I'd guess - I wasn't saying "it sounds fake" is all by itself sufficient case against this or that song/artist whatevah. But I think that Defenders of the Anti-Fake get wrongly characterized as unsophisticated or over-conservative when the objection that something seems inauthentic seems to me a perfectly good starting point for criticism, especially if the work in question situates itself in a genre that prides itself on authenticity (or frequently utilizes tropes of authenticity, at any rate). NB my whole schtick is pretty much based on mimicry of authenticity so I am not against the "fake is good" position AT ALL, only sympathetic to a kinda "rock should sound organic" argt. that I think spills over into rap for me

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

making rap beats sound 'organic' is lots more fake than making them sound like they came from the computers and shit they came from!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:17 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah but pretending digital technology = cold bleepy beats is kinda fake too, while we're at it

― Al (sitcom), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:26 (twenty-two years ago)

[x-post, responding to Ethan]

Well, sure - that's where the whole authenticity trope gets really interesting for lots of people. But the authenticity trope gets worked a lot different in rap than it does in rock, which is where I think a lot of people e.g. yourself get pissed off at undie rap, which marks as "authentic" a style that's at least as stylized as the commercial rap it deplores.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:28 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, I mean I try to avoid saying anything = good automatically, no aesthetic allegiances here! and the flipside misconception is that anti-anti-fake = cynical, pseudo-populist, cowley's theory of convulutions carried out to the nth degree, which is true sometimes (just as anti-fake does sometimes = unsophisticated or over conservative), but not always.

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

so what music isnt fake then??? also i dont get 'pissed' at undie rap didnt you see my singles list in the thread!!!! and when i dont like underground shit its not bcz its 'fake'

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:31 (twenty-two years ago)

of course EVERYTHING's fake, sooner or later language itself is fake, I'm just saying that for someone to complain "that sounds fake to me" is neither theoretically unsophisticated nor hopelessly conservative.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:34 (twenty-two years ago)

of course EVERYTHING's fake

except for me of course, I am tha realest

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:34 (twenty-two years ago)

and I think one problem I have with undie rap (and maybe trife does too since he's no 'golden age' nostalgist) is that it's sooooo reactionary, 'why hip-hop sucks in 96' is as reactionary as it comes.

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:34 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah but...I dunno, if somebody thought hiphop sucked in '96 were they just supposed to keep their mouths shut for fear of being called reactionary? I was sympathetic to that m'self, just 'cause I hate Puff Daddy so much, and you couldn't escape him in '96

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:38 (twenty-two years ago)

well they could offer a stronger argument than 'it's the money' - which tells us nothing about why hip-hop (allegedly) sucked in 96 but didn't in 88 or 84 or or or

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

you couldnt?!!?? you mean that one skit on the lil kim album????

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean one problem with the 'it sux cuz it's fake' criticism is that it offers no insight, just judgment. It doesn't provoke any thought or appreciation.

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:42 (twenty-two years ago)

J0hn might be thinking of 97 ('why hip-hop sux' was directed at dre/g-funk primarily)

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:43 (twenty-two years ago)

all the big rappers in 96, biggie and pac and wu and busta and kim and bone thugs and jay z et c etc etc, started out with a fuck of a lot less 'money' than suburbs frontin middle class vinyl collecting loser dj shadow did

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:44 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - "they're not fake, YOU ARE!"

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I was thinking of '97, yes

as to the "money" argument, I think Shadow's making an old but not necessarily bad point, albeit one so firmly in the punk rock side of things that defending it on ilx seems like a particularly Quixotic endeavor - it's a "raw" vs. "polished" argument anyhow, and being as I prefer diner food to fancy restaurant food, I got heavy sympathies with the "raw" side of that binary

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:47 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i wasnt trying to say im not feeling middle class rappers!!!! im just playin shadows game, his stake in 'class warfare' is about as street as bill oreilly braggin about his poor ghetto $100k+ upbringing

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:50 (twenty-two years ago)

ts: making a turntable/computer sequenced record that sounds like a live instruments tepid funk band vs frontin like you dont have cash and hatin on anybody who lets it show that they do

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:52 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, but the problem with shadow's argument is that it assumes (demands almost) that you have to decide between diners and fancy restaurants

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:53 (twenty-two years ago)

[xpost with ethan] false binary! "lets it show that they do" is not the same as "insists constantly that money is the only thing worth even thinking about"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

yes nnnh yer right of course, but isn't that also the problem with the other side of the argument?

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:55 (twenty-two years ago)

shadows ascetic unimaginative 'philosophy' on using hiphop production technology to stay 'cheap' is like when the villains in timecop just use their time machine to go back to the 1800s and rob gold from stagecoaches

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, I can't think of any mainstream rappers calling out undie rappers (unless lack of record sales mean benzino qualifies as undie)(trife?), and maybe that's just a 'they're not on their radar screen' type thing, but there were plenty of anti-disco and anti-punk tunes coming from your classic rockers back in the day, and that brand of puritanism weren't any prettier.

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:56 (twenty-two years ago)

and it is sometimes the problem with the other side of the argument, but not always (when you assume you make an assumption)

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:57 (twenty-two years ago)

john what rappers 'insist' 'constantly' that 'money is the only thing worth even thinking about'

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:57 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah but I have got heavy sympathies with ascetics! NB I don't give two shits about DJ Shadow. It's just that a song like "Mo' Money, Mo' Problems" gives me a bad case of class rage. I'm like: hey, you know what, asshole? If it's causing you so much grief, send that shit to me. I will deal with my new problems as they arise and I sure won't whine about them when they do, and even if I do, I won't phrase is so that 'problem' has to be pronounced 'prob-LEM' to fit the line.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Puff motherfucking Daddy is the answer to your question trife, except for when he's like "oh shit I am the only guy whose friend ever got shot"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 03:59 (twenty-two years ago)

and if 'why hip-hop sucks in 96' was actually a good track instead of just 'eh, dre suxx' I wouldn't care anyway - I love "stevie nicks sit on my face' but I still love 'rhiannon'

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:00 (twenty-two years ago)

J0hn your anti-mo money mo problems rant reeks of every sports radio 'crybaby millionaire ballplayers' call-in ever

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:02 (twenty-two years ago)

"mo money mo problem" = daft punk's favorite most bestest single of 1997 acc. to nme

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:03 (twenty-two years ago)

you're right, you're right, it's fascinating to hear rich people write songs about the problems of having too much money! whatever could I have been thinking

i.e., ballplayers don't write songs about it and I sure as fuck don't have to read their interviews to enjoy their work

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:03 (twenty-two years ago)

only in an ilxor indie vs. pop debate would one hear people defending the poetic merits of Gatsby lamenting that he doesn't know how much to tip his caddy

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:04 (twenty-two years ago)

hold up john do you disagree with the basic sentiment behind mo money mo problems?? mo money DID get them mo fuckin problems, biggie got killed you heartless dickface!!!!! also shadow wasnt talkin to puff cuz IT WAS 96, so if you can tell me who would qualify from the year of the fugees id like to hear it (also thats a dumbly reductive assessment of diddy but since you refuse to engage with him on any level im not gonna try)

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:07 (twenty-two years ago)

J0hn - do you like Citizen Kane?

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:07 (twenty-two years ago)

if 'why hip-hop sucks in 96' had just been a loop of the 'no woman no cry' organ I mighta liked it

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:08 (twenty-two years ago)

blount its not even a song!!! check every undie head sure quoted it like the gospel though, peep late 90s reviews of kool keith or whatever '....but as DJ Shadow correctly said, the reason "why HipHop sucks in '96" is certainly "the money", thankfully Dr. Octagon provides relief from that shameless materialism..."

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:12 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, as evidenced in letter number one here

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:16 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, Trife, I do disagree with "the more money we come across, the more problems we see," and I'd hope anybody who's fucking gone hungry hasn't vanished too far into the ether to remember that any problems that come after "oh shit what am I gonna have for dinner, I don't think I can stand another night without some dinner" are some tiny-ass problems. i.e. now that I don't make minimum wage, do I have to pay more taxes, shell out a fair penny for a good tax attorney because dealing with multiple streams of income is confusing, worry that if I got robbed I'd actually lose some unrecoverable stuff, etc? Well, yes. Will I whine about it in song? Fuck no: how miserable would that be? You get more problems when you get a job than you had before you got one, too, but they sure beat being unemployed.

(Naturally I like Citizen Kane but mainly for its formalism, I have the same issues with it ideologically that I have with "MMMP," ergo Diddy and Welles are the same guy)

xpost trife I gotta hand it to you, that's a genius summary of the Octagon reviews (which record I also hate)

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:16 (twenty-two years ago)

What ideology in Citizen Kane are you talking about?

― s1utsky (slutsky), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

but who likes 'mo money mo problems' becuz of it's ideology?

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:21 (twenty-two years ago)

citizen kane's ideology = mo money mo problems

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Come on, that is so not that movie's ideology. It's a device, it's out of a melodrama, it's the bones of the story.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:22 (twenty-two years ago)

but who likes 'mo money mo problems' becuz of it's ideology?

Maybe it's all about if you pay attention to the lyrics or not, I dunno. But this would be my lens to use.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

john hates it bcz of its idealogy!!!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:26 (twenty-two years ago)

"now that I don't make minimum wage, do I have to pay more taxes, shell out a fair penny for a good tax attorney because dealing with multiple streams of income is confusing, worry that if I got robbed I'd actually lose some unrecoverable stuff, etc?"

Yes but John this is a much more enjoyable song topic than worrying about how you're gonna eat. Worrying about which two hot babes are gonna menage in the back of the garage is even *more* enjoyable! Size of problems != greatness of song!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Is ideology just being used here to mean "what the song's about"?

― s1utsky (slutsky), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:28 (twenty-two years ago)

well, it's a way of spinning what the song's about

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:30 (twenty-two years ago)

ok yo i really need to go now but it was nice arguing with yall, bad boy 4 life!!!!! james, beautiful job holdin it down,,,john, im sorry i cant get with your crazy ideas i dont think we will ever agree on hiphop!! ok !! gentlemen, goodnight.... ladies.... good morning!!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:31 (twenty-two years ago)

So who's ideology are we talking about here?

(xp)

― s1utsky (slutsky), Saturday, 9 August 2003 04:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Speaking of Mase:

http://www.allhiphop.com/hiphopnews/?ID=2196

the subtitle of his autobiography is possibly the funniest thing of all time

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 09:06 (twenty-two years ago)

The minister chronicled his life, in and outside of rap, in "Revelations: There's a Light After the Lime."

*speechless*

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 9 August 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Stop thinking about Ma$e's lime, Dan.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 August 2003 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

that subtitle is like the deepest koan ever, its ripples spread out far past the edges of the pond

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...

Ma$e Back With Bad Boy

― cloverlandthug, Saturday, 31 January 2004 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

"There's Money After a God"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 31 January 2004 04:30 (twenty-two years ago)

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