Writing About Metal = Career Suicide? (SF Bay Guardian)

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Will York in the SF Bay Guardian:

"IF YOU'RE A music journalist, writing about metal is a bad career move. All right, writing about music is a bad career move, period. –But covering metal certainly creates more obstacles than crowing about Stephen Malkmus and Yo La Tengo, sucking up to the new garage rock generation, or offering postmodern "deconstructions" of the latest Christina Aguilera or Avril Lavigne record. I've got it easy with my open-minded editors here at the Bay Guardian, but tell most editors you want to review the new Morbid Angel album, and they begin to look at you like you're diseased..."

http://www.sfbg.com/noise/2003-08/defendmetal.html

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

bullshit.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

a man who wrote a BOOK on heavy metal edits the biggest free weekly in the country.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but compare Chuck's definition of metal to what this feller's might be. Chuck doesn't write on metal, he writes on music that sometimes includes metal as he sees it.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

also, could we PLEASE have a moratorium on "cheekily self-depricating" assessments of the field/industry of music criticism in print. NO ONE CARES, EVEN MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO DO IT.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Now this is true!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

one of the reasons that i insist upon writing about metal is so no one will ever ask me to write about yo la tengo.

― scott seward, Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

"rockcrit is like choosing having your balls gripped in a vice for a profession!", "being the worlds biggest rockcrit is like being the worlds tallest midget", "rock crit is career suicide" so START CLEANING TOILETS AND DOING SOMETHING VALUABLE FOR SOCIETY OR GET ON THE GROUND AND THANK YAWEH ALMIGHTY THAT YOU GET TO REVIEW MATADOR RECORDS FOR A LIVING.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

the sense of entitlement possessed by those "in the media" always amazes me

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I still don't get the idea of a career in reviewing. Is this really doable? Everyone I know who do that sort of thing do it for free.
Of course, most people I know who do that generally write about either metal or prog rock, so maybe that explains it.
The idea of living off writing reviews sounds horrible though, what a terrible, terrible job. "Here's 50 promos of godawful garbage. Enjoy!"

― Øystein Holm-Olsen (Øystein H-O), Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

it's possible if your expenses are really low (as mine are) and you can write regularly for a place or couple places that pay decently.

then again my rent is $155 a month, so maybe i'm special.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

it's like anything else. it depends. you can make a living freelancing if you are really good at hustling for work. and you can make a living writing for a newspaper doing arts/music/events listings. There are, believe it or not, people who really enjoy newspaper work. but there are probably even more people who feel stuck so they write snarky articles.

― scott seward, Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

oh yeah, ya know, i'm just talking about people i know. i've never made much money writing. i only do it a little bit. i've always had a full-time job until now ( i look after little junior and my wife works. she makes the big bucks, thank god. )

― scott seward, Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

i really like doing show previews and shit. or maybe its just that i hate working in an office so much that i tell myself i do. and then i do!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Those who write extensively about writing about music are usually those who love music reviews more than music itself.

Which makes one wonder what that makes those who write about people who write about writing about music.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Saturday, 9 August 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

and not that watching a baby all day isn't enough work, but i am gonna see about writing more now for a little extra pin money.(ya know for bon bons and a nice manicure every once in a while) i'm gonna do what i can to make sure that i don't have to get a real job when junior gets older. i just spent the last 4 and a half years selling 40s of malt liquor and telling crackheads that no we don't sell chore boy and no we don't sell single roses in glass tubes. if i can stay home in the future i will.

― scott seward, Saturday, 9 August 2003 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

what makes ME wonder is people who post things like ham on rye who obviously think they've happened upon some secret of the universe they have to share with us.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 9 August 2003 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

for me personally, i've always enjoyed reading other writers talking about or writing about writing!! and talking and writing about other writers! long before i ever wrote a word. and i love criticism. any kind. but writers who HATE writing? or people who never actually get around to writing anything and who are miserable? they aren't that much fun to be around or to listen to.

― scott seward, Saturday, 9 August 2003 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

(I heart Scott Seward. He is a genius.)

― David. (Cozen), Saturday, 9 August 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, and people who don't write anything, but just love writing/criticism/fiction/whatever and who love talking about it: they rule too. i don't think i could ever write a novel but i love discussing the mechanics of novel-writing.

― scott seward, Saturday, 9 August 2003 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

one of the reasons that i insist upon writing about metal is so no one will ever ask me to write about yo la tengo.

scott, you're beautiful. truly, deeply beautiful.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Saturday, 9 August 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

oh jeez, david, thanks. and i'm guessing you read what chuck wrote on that other thread. he's embarrassing. but he IS my biggest fan and he's the one to blame for me writing anything so if anyone has a problem with anything i write they know who to call. he's a good friend and i'm just insanely lucky and fortunate to know him and have him in my corner. who was there for me when my ex-girlfriend started having cyber-sex with a vampire from Canada? why he was of course. and writing crazy shit for him is a dream come true.

oh, and hey thanks Jeanne. okay, you can all stop now. where's Matos to put me in my place.

― scott seward, Saturday, 9 August 2003 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

no, wait, one more thing. scott remember that piece you wrote a while back called something like "Heard it on the X" for Chuck? it was about a bunch of nu-metal bands, but you opened the piece with a little anecdote about tripping over your couch in an attempt to get a tape so you could record a Manu Chao video that was on some MTV channel? (yes, i have a scary memory for some stuff.) well, i *loved* that piece so much that i wrote to the Voice (this is waaay before i ever started writing for Chuck) and Chuck emailed me back asking if he could print my letter in the Letters section. and so he did. that was a tremendous article. (the proof is in how much my deflated brain remembers about it.)

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Saturday, 9 August 2003 19:39 (twenty-two years ago)

what makes ME wonder is people who post things like ham on rye who obviously think they've happened upon some secret of the universe they have to share with us. >>>

The only real secret of the universe I know is the garage rock movement springing up around Alpha Centauri. Essay forthcoming.

btw I think I was kind of agreeing with you, maybe it was badly worded.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Saturday, 9 August 2003 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Scott: for me personally, i've always enjoyed reading other writers talking about or writing about writing!! and talking and writing about other writers! long before i ever wrote a word. and i love criticism. any kind. but writers who HATE writing? or people who never actually get around to writing anything and who are miserable? they aren't that much fun to be around or to listen to.
That notorious scene in 'Say Anything' as rewritten for ILM:
"I don't want to write anything, read anything or sing anything. I don't want to write about someone singing. I don't want to read about someone singing. I don't want to read about someone writing something about somebody singing. Mostly I want to hang around Tanya Headon."

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 9 August 2003 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Hah! that's cool Jeanne! And you are certainly a welcome addition to the pages of the Voice. What i remember about that piece was that not too long after i wrote it they replaced the digital MTV nu-metal channel i was getting and replaced it with a hip-hop channel! And then they re-instated the marginally better Headbangers Ball! I'd like to think it was all my doing.

― scott seward, Saturday, 9 August 2003 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Stupid Deena Weinstein quote: Why can't [metal] be covered like any other kind of music? Would it be so terrible to enlighten, let alone turn on, people who are not metalheads?

As the person who wrote 90 percent of the pop music coverage for a
daily for a number of years, I can say metal was covered like
"any other kind of music."

The command was to do everything with a local angle and the
vast majority of acts that traipsed through the area of circulation
were hard rock or heavy metal. Every thrash metal act from New
Jersey one could imagine, hair metal bands from LA until Cobain
accidentally killed off their cachet, metro-New York Rock
Hotel metalcore, death metal, local perisher metal -- the groups
with people back from being wrung out in LA or ready to leave to
be wrung out in LA.

I can't think of a week or weekend that went by that didn't have
at least two or three pieces on metal bands. These were not
necessarily long things. They could range from concert reviews,
to record reviews, to short interviews, to a graf or two of
introduction in weekend listings.

But photographers were dispatched for features, interviews conducted, material often made the central item on a page. And so-called
metalheads weren't the readership.

So much for the pseudo-intellectual complaint.

writing about metal is a bad career move

Never impeded me in harder areas of journalism.

― George Smith, Saturday, 9 August 2003 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

That entire section on writingaboutmusic in that issue of the Bay Guardian is (more) embarrassingly masturbatory and useless (than usual).

Also: John Darnielle to thread!

― Nick Mirov (nick), Sunday, 10 August 2003 07:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Martin Popoff's "Riff Kills Man/Collectors Guide to Heavy Metal" to thread.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 10 August 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck Klosterman who got a job at SPIN because of a book he wrote on metal to thread!

(Scott, you suck. there, is that what you wanted?)

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 11 August 2003 04:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Crap, I thought this posted hours ago...what was I saying? Fuck, I hate rewriting...

Yeah, I've survived over the years by finding creative new ways to use the words "morbid" and "angel" together in a sentence. Sometimes it pays two bucks per "morbid," and often it's for free, but anytime your personal agenda runs against the house laws [usually an editorial rationalization of the latest ad dept. mandate], it's going to be a battle. That struggle is still more fun and rewarding than sitting around in a dusty apartment, staring at old Swervedriver and Unrest promos, feeling like you've been tooled.

To me, though, articles like this indicate that the plates are already shifting. Like when Chuck Klosterman used the NYTimes to make from for Robbin Crosby in the great rock mausoleaum, his complaint was already moot. I have read at least 50 reviews of Sound of the Beast that make special mention of metal's chronic problem with critical neglect.

"At least now they admit it," said the disgruntled teenager.

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Monday, 11 August 2003 07:07 (twenty-two years ago)

not very interesting really - industry-based articles always get me snoozing, though. i never write about metal but if i knew anything about it or liked it much, then i would... metal is far more acceptable than electronic music in the uk right now. cf kerrand being the biggest-selling music weekly and heaps of "dance" publications closing down...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 11 August 2003 10:43 (twenty-two years ago)

writing abt dancehall, however... really dumb thing to do if you want to get a lot of work!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 11 August 2003 10:44 (twenty-two years ago)

the world's biggest selling music weekly is a metal magazine.

― david mc, Monday, 11 August 2003 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, matos, that's fine. i just needed a little of your excellent crankiness to serve as a reality check. i'm not very good at taking compliments.

― scott seward, Monday, 11 August 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

the world's biggest selling music weekly is a metal magazine.

yes that's what i was talking about

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Doesn't metal have more specialty magazines than, like, any other genre of music? And wider-circulated ones too? Still, it'd be kinda nice if someone could tell me whether or not to spend money on the new Hate Eternal (I don't read metal specialty magazines).

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Still, it'd be kinda nice if someone could tell me whether or not to spend money on the new Hate Eternal

King Of All Kings got top marks everywhere. Haven't read a single negative review, so I doubt you'll regret it.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 11 August 2003 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

The Cleveland Scene (for which I write) publishes metal reviews every single week.

http://www.clevescene.com

I didn't love the Hate Eternal disc at the time, but I've seen the video a few times on Headbanger's Ball and dug it. If I still had it, I'd pull it out and give it a reassessment—I gave Vital Remains' Dechristianize a tepid review, but it's a few months later and I'm ready to put it in my Top Ten for this year.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 11 August 2003 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks, Siegbran!

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Monday, 11 August 2003 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

It's an interesting article, from a sociological perspective. I think people who are interested in either A) Rock crit. itself, or B) The actual demographics that follow different genres of music, would like the article. And that group is so small, I'm surprised this was printed.

― David Allen, Monday, 11 August 2003 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

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